How do I manufacture an NFA AOW

[That_FNG]

So from what I understand AOW's are the only NFA we are allowed in NY. I know to transfer an AOW it's a $5 tax stamp, and to manufacture its a $200 tax stamp. What I want to know what is the process for manufacturing an AOW? What would I have to do paperwork wise before I made one?

I basically want to take my Mossberg Cruiser PGO firearm (was never manufactured by Mossberg with a stock and therefor has never been considered a shotgun) and convert it to an AOW.

I also want to take a spare AR15 style firearm stripped lower and manufacture that into a fixed magazine AOW.

 

[Bananabandit]

Perhaps youd need an FFL07?

 

[WileyX585]

Do the paperwork and pay the $$ and good luck.

 

[freddy]

Hmmmm.

 

[That_FNG]

Looks like I need to do form 1 first. It appears it might be handy to set up an NFA trust as it allows all members of my household to use any of the AOW’s.

Silencerco appears to have an easy process for the trust. Researching that next

 

[WileyX585]

Looks like I need to do form 1 first. It appears it might be handy to set up an NFA trust as it allows all members of my household to use any of the AOW’s.

Silencerco appears to have an easy process for the trust. Researching that next

Trusts are easy and inexpensive. You can get one anywhere, just be sure it covers everything as I have seen some poorly written ones.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

trust is good. i would make the trust. add all the items....THEN add other trusties.

otherwise you will need finger prints etc etc for everyone in the trust.

remember most all AOW will need to be on a pistol permit in NY.

buying an AOW is cheaper than paying the tax stamp price. remember an ar pistol with a forward grip is an AOW.

you are right, a form 1 is what you need.

keep us posted on how long etc etc.

you will need finger print cards from the ATF and passport photos for the application.

you will also need to engrave your trust name onto the receivers. check the guidelines for depth and height...i forget.

have fun.

 

[Acer-m14]

checking the small print in the 2A .. can't see it ..

 

[That_FNG]

trust is good. i would make the trust. add all the items....THEN add other trusties.

otherwise you will need finger prints etc etc for everyone in the trust.

remember most all AOW will need to be on a pistol permit in NY.

buying an AOW is cheaper than paying the tax stamp price. remember an ar pistol with a forward grip is an AOW.

you are right, a form 1 is what you need.

keep us posted on how long etc etc.

you will need finger print cards from the ATF and passport photos for the application.

you will also need to engrave your trust name onto the receivers. check the guidelines for depth and height...i forget.

have fun.

I thought all AOW's had to be on a PP even if they are a pistol. What AOW's wouldn't need to be on a PP

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I thought all AOW's had to be on a PP even if they are a pistol. What AOW's wouldn't need to be on a PP

IDK.

CYA

trying not to speek outta my knowledge base......

 

[C3D]

There's no need to use a trust anymore. That is obsolete post the adoption of a rule change (41F). Fill out the form, get the prints done, send in with your $200, photo and certification. Wait. Wait some more. Wait even more. Then get approval.

Make sure whatever you make goes on a NYS pistol license if necessary. That bit will apply to most AOW shotguns and AR brace-style pistols.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

There's no need to use a trust anymore. That is obsolete post the adoption of a rule change (41F). .

Sure there is. A trust allows other people on the trust to be in possession of the NFA items.

The rule change only said that everybody on the trust must be fingerprinted. All the other provisions of the trust still apply. Including the willing of items after you die.

The great thing about the trust is anything in your trust can be willed to your beneficiary tax free.

 

[C3D]

Sure there is. A trust allows other people on the trust to be in possession of the NFA items.

The rule change only said that everybody on the trust must be fingerprinted. All the other provisions of the trust still apply. Including the willing of items after you die.

The great thing about the trust is anything in your trust can be willed to your beneficiary tax free.

Trusts in NY (and elsewhere) were used primarily to avoid the need for CLEO sign off, which is now obsolete post-41P. Sharing NFA items is a potential remaining advantage of trusts, but the problem is if your AOW needs a NYS pistol license, it can't be shared with others, and it probably does need a pistol license. I have tried for a while to thread the needle between what is an AOW under the NFA and legal in NY and doesn't need a pistol license to possess. I haven't found it yet. To wit, the Mossy Cruisers, Ithaca A/Bs and similar.

Also NFA items always pass tax-free to an heir of the descendent on a Form 5.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Trusts in NY (and elsewhere) were used primarily to avoid the need for CLEO sign off, which is now obsolete post-41P. Sharing NFA items is a potential remaining advantage of trusts, but the problem is if your AOW needs a NYS pistol license, it can't be shared with others, and it probably does need a pistol license. I have tried for a while to thread the needle between what is an AOW under the NFA and legal in NY and doesn't need a pistol license to possess. I haven't found it yet. To wit, the Mossy Cruisers, Ithaca A/Bs and similar.

Also NFA items always pass tax-free to an heir of the descendent on a Form 5.

I don’t know about the form five. As I have not encountered one yet. I will look into that.

Remember, not everyone on the trust needs to reside in New York. So other people in your family or circle of friends can use it in other states. Technically, no one is supposed to touch these items and less there on the trust.

But you do make a good point about AOWs being a pistol permits in New York State.

 

[DoD1776]

IDK.

CYA

trying not to speek outta my knowledge base......

Speak*

 

[Marine Cpl]

Where does it say in the Penal law that AOW's need to be on pistol permits?

If you read Penal Law 400, it doesn't say that anywhere.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

@C3D

You said the form five work for descendants. But will they also work for people who are not related?

 

[C3D]

@C3D

You said the form five work for descendants. But will they also work for people who are not related?

Any heir named in a will, related or not. So you are GTG if an individual is on the Form 4 and makes provision for the disposition of the NFA to any named (non-prohibited) person.

 

[C3D]

Where does it say in the Penal law that AOW's need to be on pistol permits?

If you read Penal Law 400, it doesn't say that anywhere.

Nope. It sure doesn't. And it doesn't in Article 265, or anywhere else in the gun laws of New York.

An AOW is a Federal-only category, part of the National Firearms Act. For the Mossberg Cruiser/Persuader and similar, the NFA part doesn't really get hung up in whether it's a pistol or not; if it has a smooth unrifled bore and is not designed to be shot from the shoulder, it is an AOW. For AR pistols, since they have rifled bores, the ATF takes the view that they become AOWs once a second grip is added since they are no longer designed to be held by one hand and lose the benefit of the language in the NFA that exempts a pistol from being an AOW.

New York cannot do anything easily, and one of the things it doesn't do is tell us what a pistol or revolver is (and isn't). So is a 12" barrel, pistol grip shotgun a "pistol" under NY law? We don't know for certain, because the courts and legislature haven't told us, but the prevailing view is that they are. That's because NY doesn't have any other categories that this type of weapon will fit into. The choices are only short barreled shotgun (SBS) or pistol. And an SBS is a "firearm" in the bad NYS Article 265.00 sense, as in you go to jail for possession of a firearm.

Many counties add the pistol grip shorties to pistol licenses for this reason, and most sensible FFLs wouldn't sell one without treating it as a pistol. (Some counties take the view they are sawed off shotguns, even though they were never designed to be shot from the shoulder, and won't allow this. NYPD for NYC and Nassau are pretty good examples, at least a few years ago when I last checked.)

Possessing one of these weapons without having it on a pistol license is risky, really risky. YMMV

 

[Eddie Gunks]

The p12 for that FFLs are required to fill out for pistols says something to the edfect that any pistol or easily concealed firearm need to be in the book.

Once in the book they know. So if you sold it to aomeone with no permit i bet thebrain down on you.

FWIW i personally know a guy that has a serbu that is NOT on a pistol permit.

A friend/ffl gOT together with gun lawyers, st poh poh , etc etc and what they came up with is put em on permits. Kind of a CYA.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

 

[Acer-m14]

i hate gun laws .. everything can be concealed under a trench coat even a mosin if your 7'4" tall ..