How New York state’s ‘Red Flag’ law works; new gun law takes effect Saturday
- Thread starter Acer-m14
- Start date
Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
Divorce rate in NY may go down.
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
My wife & I were talking about this. I know a few people that would like to see guns removed from my house (anti-gun extended family members who I no longer speak to).
Looks like my plinking .22 rifles will go in the safe to be "staged", she even agreed this was a good idea. They can't take what they don't know about.
It sucks that we even have to think this way.
Looks like my plinking .22 rifles will go in the safe to be "staged", she even agreed this was a good idea. They can't take what they don't know about.
It sucks that we even have to think this way.
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Yup. Pretty much anyone with a grudge against you can make a tip to the cops and before you know it the goon squad is kicking down your door, shooting your dog, and taking all your property. All without any due process.
Yes, I did read the article. Yes, I know that there is a hearing. But we all know how those hearings will go. Nothing but a kangaroo court.
Yes, I did read the article. Yes, I know that there is a hearing. But we all know how those hearings will go. Nothing but a kangaroo court.
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
READ. 2 months to get his Florida permit back even though the local cops cleared him.
Man Falsely Stripped Of Gun Rights Gets Them Restored
Man Falsely Stripped Of Gun Rights Gets Them Restored
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Guns are taken first, then the accused gets their day in court.
This is unconstitutional without a doubt. There are also no provisions to punish the accuser for falsely making claims.
2WheelGnnr
6.5 Creedmoor
This is going to be a $hit $how....people all over will be falsely accusing people they dont like or for some Other Reasons for this..and those accused will have to spend THOUSANDS to get rights back all cuz someone cried wolf. This new law can be so abused..........IMHO
Sneezy
6.5 Creedmoor
The ultimate question is how much will it get abused because it can and will be abused.
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
As much as the State is able to.
repete
.338 Win Mag
Remember back about ten years ago when head shrinkers where convincing people about the "repressed" memories? Lots of lives were ruined on false accusations with no or little recourse. So what do they think will happen?
repete
.338 Win Mag
That two months will be like light speed compared to NY
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
It’s a civil court hearing. Some when can your rights be taken away during a civil hearing. The hearings are BS like you stated. They claim only certain people can bring the case but the cops and the DA’s will do it on anyone’s behalf. We will loose our rights one by one through this. I have stopped wearing all progun shirts and will stop talking hubs to strangers. I’m sure my neighbors would call just for knowing I have 15-16 guns in my house.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
And this is why you should spread your guns out. Only keep a couple hand guns around the house now, most everything else is in another state. They can't take what ain't here
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Sadly, this may be the only option. Many on this forum routinely voice frustration with the current state of things, how soon until thats considered hostile and reason to redflag someone.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Or what's in your attic. What are they going to do? Take your staged plinkers from the safe and go through every box in the attic dumping Christmas decorations on the floor just in case if they happened to be in one of 25 boxes you have up there? Then pull out your insulation to check if you have something in between the beams?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
But what bothers me the most is that LEO's will say or are saying, "Sorry. Not my problem. Hand them over."
But oh! They must have a limit you say. Eventually they'll say that Enough is Enough!
Yeah. I will use the Nazi comparison. There is no limit. 20 years ago we would have thought this ludicrous and that no way an LEO would do this. But they are doing it.
The only people that can stop gun control in it's tracks are those that enforce it. Enforcers are the last line of defense in upholding the Constitution.
But oh! They must have a limit you say. Eventually they'll say that Enough is Enough!
Yeah. I will use the Nazi comparison. There is no limit. 20 years ago we would have thought this ludicrous and that no way an LEO would do this. But they are doing it.
The only people that can stop gun control in it's tracks are those that enforce it. Enforcers are the last line of defense in upholding the Constitution.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The problem is that even if 99% of cops refuse to enforce this stuff, they will just get the 1% that don't care to be the door kickers.
Then when someone resists, the 99% will be willing to go after them for resisting, even if they would have refused to enforce the confiscation.
The vast majority of soldiers in Germany would have refused to turn on the gas to the showers, but they were plenty willing to round up "criminals" and send them to "detention centers".
Diesel Tech
.40 S&W
Many mass shooters had previous complaints against them. If someone makes threats or exhibits certain behavior (Skinning live dogs in his shed or shooting at pics of a political figures) and owns firearms they should be checked out, or have their firearms removed.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Well, not the last line. The citizenry is the last line, but the problem is that the way Society is designed our survival is dependent on a functioning Society and our ability to remain free to provide for our families.
So as long as there is a societal structure, law enforcement will typically continue to "just follow orders" so that they can provide for their families, and most citizens will go along with whatever the government tells them so they can provide for theirs.
Bob
6.5 Creedmoor
What about the mass shooters who are already prohibited persons by way of being convicted felons? How does already being prohibited from legally owning a firearm prevent a mass shooting? There are 2-3 mass shootings EVERY WEEKEND on the streets of Chicago alone, but politicians and the media like Prince Andrew and little Fredo don't give a shit about them.
Diesel Tech
.40 S&W
Some types of crimes are preventable, some are not.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
Yes, I have no illusion that the cops will go through every square inch of your home if they think you have more guns than you say or they can't find guns they think you own
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
Even though I am blessed with like minded family and friends in a number of States, I have also found that in free states a number of ranges and clubs provide secure storage services and there are even self storage facilities that are intended to accommodate firearms (a few upscale facilities were designed to almost exclusively cater to firearm storage.) Just saying as a public service.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Youre nuts man. Shooting at pictures does not translate to being a mass murderer.
Skinning live dogs is different. But you've already proven yourself to be an anti-gun Fudd so your opinion doesn't really count for much.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
spat
.700 Nitro Express
No.
If someone has demonstrated that they are such a danger to society that it would be appropriate to disarm them, then YOU NEED TO LOCK THEM UP.
Are you going to take away the next Tim McVeigh's guns ? That'll surely stop him from committing mass murder.
One thing I haven't seen with regard to these so called red flag laws, - are there are any restrictions regarding the accusers. That is, - do the accusers have to be located in the same state as the firearm owner?
In my case, I was put through the "red flag law" process a couple of years before NY passed their own red flag law when my local PD Chief objected to my using "profanity" to keep a man who has threatened my life on multiple occasions away from me and off of my property. He wrote the local PPO demanding that my permit be revoked. It was suspended. It cost me a lot of aggravation; had to hire a lawyer to go to court to testify; and about 6 months to get my handguns back. I see a big part of that problem being that NY is a "may issue" state. Cross the wrong person, and you may kiss your permit goodbye. That's exactly what has happened to that judge in Genesee County recently as I recall.
I feel a bit safer re my guns now that I am living in NC, - a "shall issue" state, but not entirely so. And here is why. Both of my parents died within the last 10 years. To date, my two siblings have been fighting me over their estates, (and none of us have seen a penny so far). It seems as though part of their plan was to file multiple police complaints against me over my owning guns. Possibly in the hope that they could get me to retaliate against them; getting arrested, and thereby becoming disqualified to serve as their executor in NY. If so, they failed. But it was shocking to see the level of hatred they displayed, and the efforts they went to. One actually had me SWATted, by calling 911 and claiming that I was threatening their life with "unlicensed handguns", and then hung up the phone, - (and yes, that brought the cops in a hurry).
My lawyer suggested to me that I FOIA myself to see if there had been other complaints against me, and to my shock, I found there were almost 50 police reports in file where my siblings had been calling in to the cops making countless utterly false complaints against me alleging threats, etc., - and all were filed from outside of NY state. The amazing thing is, - knowing that they hated my guts, I have stopped ALL contact with them years ago, except in writing through my lawyer. Nothing, - no phone calls, texts, emails, letters, pony express or otherwise, - nothing! And yet they continued to file false police reports alleging that they felt threatened, etc.
My point is this: I see these red flag laws as extremely unfair (complete lack of due process), and extremely dangerous. In NY, all it took was a BS accusation to take my handguns away, given NY's wishy washy may issue process BEFORE there was a red flag law in place in NY. I felt as though here in NC at least, unless I actually get arrested for something, that my guns were safe from seizure, given the "shall issue" standard used. But now, with a NC red flag law under consideration, as well as a federal one, I don't feel nearly as safe from confiscation of my firearms. Especially, if accusations can come from anyone, without regard to where they might be located.
I haven't checked lately to see if my siblings are still filing false accusations, either in NY, or here in NC. But given their track record to date, I will honestly not be surprised if the police show up at my door someday with an ERPO to seize my guns.
Many have warned that red flag laws are going to open a huge can of worms. I think that firearm owners are very likely targets when anyone out there has a grudge against you. And as long as laws are being passed that place no consequences on people making false accusations, I expect there will be a pile of them filed.
As for me, I'm ready and waiting for the shit to hit the fan.
In my case, I was put through the "red flag law" process a couple of years before NY passed their own red flag law when my local PD Chief objected to my using "profanity" to keep a man who has threatened my life on multiple occasions away from me and off of my property. He wrote the local PPO demanding that my permit be revoked. It was suspended. It cost me a lot of aggravation; had to hire a lawyer to go to court to testify; and about 6 months to get my handguns back. I see a big part of that problem being that NY is a "may issue" state. Cross the wrong person, and you may kiss your permit goodbye. That's exactly what has happened to that judge in Genesee County recently as I recall.
I feel a bit safer re my guns now that I am living in NC, - a "shall issue" state, but not entirely so. And here is why. Both of my parents died within the last 10 years. To date, my two siblings have been fighting me over their estates, (and none of us have seen a penny so far). It seems as though part of their plan was to file multiple police complaints against me over my owning guns. Possibly in the hope that they could get me to retaliate against them; getting arrested, and thereby becoming disqualified to serve as their executor in NY. If so, they failed. But it was shocking to see the level of hatred they displayed, and the efforts they went to. One actually had me SWATted, by calling 911 and claiming that I was threatening their life with "unlicensed handguns", and then hung up the phone, - (and yes, that brought the cops in a hurry).
My lawyer suggested to me that I FOIA myself to see if there had been other complaints against me, and to my shock, I found there were almost 50 police reports in file where my siblings had been calling in to the cops making countless utterly false complaints against me alleging threats, etc., - and all were filed from outside of NY state. The amazing thing is, - knowing that they hated my guts, I have stopped ALL contact with them years ago, except in writing through my lawyer. Nothing, - no phone calls, texts, emails, letters, pony express or otherwise, - nothing! And yet they continued to file false police reports alleging that they felt threatened, etc.
My point is this: I see these red flag laws as extremely unfair (complete lack of due process), and extremely dangerous. In NY, all it took was a BS accusation to take my handguns away, given NY's wishy washy may issue process BEFORE there was a red flag law in place in NY. I felt as though here in NC at least, unless I actually get arrested for something, that my guns were safe from seizure, given the "shall issue" standard used. But now, with a NC red flag law under consideration, as well as a federal one, I don't feel nearly as safe from confiscation of my firearms. Especially, if accusations can come from anyone, without regard to where they might be located.
I haven't checked lately to see if my siblings are still filing false accusations, either in NY, or here in NC. But given their track record to date, I will honestly not be surprised if the police show up at my door someday with an ERPO to seize my guns.
Many have warned that red flag laws are going to open a huge can of worms. I think that firearm owners are very likely targets when anyone out there has a grudge against you. And as long as laws are being passed that place no consequences on people making false accusations, I expect there will be a pile of them filed.
As for me, I'm ready and waiting for the shit to hit the fan.
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So are the cops going to be willing to respond to a red flag call and confiscate say..... their own partners Father's guns?? Or how will the police like it when say their own brothers or daughters house gets tossed upside down because the neighbor red flagged them? Lol.. This ain't going to be popular..
Kirk_STNY
.45 acp
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