How NOT to handle an armed aggressor

[Justincase]

Armed Robber Out-Gunned, Taken Down By Store Employees

Both those guys are lucky they have the same number of holes in them that they were born with. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, but not if it gets you killed.

 

[Phazer]

Ugh! Employee managed to sneak up on armed criminal and then...put the gun to the criminal's back and fired warning shots at the ceiling. NO! NO! NO!

Should have taken up a skewed firing position (so as not to hit his fellow employee) from a stand-off distance behind cover. Then he should have shouted commands to "drop your weapon" or simply fired since his fellow employee was in mortal danger from a visibly armed criminal.

Why the hell this employee gave up his tactical advantage to use a gun at point-blank distance eludes me.

 

[dwa12479]

Employees of a convenience store in the city’s Stockyards neighborhood thwarted an armed robbery Friday by sneaking up behind the masked gunmen, putting a gun to his back and firing warning shots into the ceiling, according to police.

If I shake my head any harder I'm gonna need a chiropractor appt in the morning. What an epic fail on so many levels.

 

[tirwin1]

Both employees are very lucky to have escaped without being injured or killed. I do have a couple of questions.

1. If the employee had simply shot the robber in the back, would he be facing charges?
2. By shooting the robber did the employee jeopardize the other employee behind the counter? Years ago I remember hearing that if you shot someone holding a gun they would reflexively pull the trigger (involuntary body reaction). Is that true or just B.S.

 

[GOPerfect]

Both employees are very lucky to have escaped without being injured or killed. I do have a couple of questions.

1. If the employee had simply shot the robber in the back, would he be facing charges?
2. By shooting the robber did the employee jeopardize the other employee behind the counter? Years ago I remember hearing that if you shot someone holding a gun they would reflexively pull the trigger (involuntary body reaction). Is that true or just B.S.

1. I would think not. Shooting in the back is NOT a crime.

2. Possibility. I doubt it, but anything is possible.

 

[Phazer]

By shooting the robber did the employee jeopardize the other employee behind the counter? Years ago I remember hearing that if you shot someone holding a gun they would reflexively pull the trigger (involuntary body reaction). Is that true or just B.S.

That is an outside possibility as a reflexive response to pain. So, that is why the unseen employee could have opted against a center mass shot and gone for the criminal's head (read: off switch). A more difficult shot...sure. But, from a mere few feet away, it should have been quite possible.

 

[Acer-m14]

getting that close my muzzle would have been right on the back of the head from the side so the passthru didn't hit the clerk and booom .. lights out .. if the perps gun went off where he was holding would have been a low hit and survivable , but don't think his finger would have even known ..

 

[Darth]

IF (my friend) had that shot to the back of his head (my friend) would have pulled with no hesitation, assuming no crossfire.

A lethal threat is a lethal threat. (My friend) will handle it however (he) can.

I honestly believe the "NEVER SHOOT HIM IN THE BACK" thing is horseshit. Yes, even in NY (remember, a jury of your peers is a jury of your peers.) If you reasonably think they are going yo kill an innocent third party, and you have the advantage...

Yeah.

 

[misunderestimated]

The last thing you want in your hand during a fist fight is a gun, Unless you plan on beating some one over the head with it. Good for them to stand up, Good for them to not be victims . But if you go into a violent situation , you better be prepared to use violence to win it,

 

[freddy]

I honestly believe the "NEVER SHOOT HIM IN THE BACK" thing is horseshit. Yes, even in NY (remember, a jury of your peers is a jury of your peers.) If you reasonably think they are going yo kill an innocent third party, and you have the advantage...

Massad Ayoob, a highly regarded authority on these matters, has confirmed it is permisible given the correct circumstances. Read his seminal work 'Deadly force - understanding your right to self defense'. Probably the single best book on the topic.

 

[Arjuna]

Bearing Arms better have a talk with their writer -

The employee managed to release the clip from Thornton’s gun, then grab the gun itself. He loaded the clip back into the gun and fired several shots into the ceiling, the video shows.

 

[NYGuns]

That store obviously didn't read my camera thread or they would have some decent cameras installed

 

[Marine Cpl]

IF (my friend) had that shot to the back of his head (my friend) would have pulled with no hesitation, assuming no crossfire.

A lethal threat is a lethal threat. (My friend) will handle it however (he) can.

I honestly believe the "NEVER SHOOT HIM IN THE BACK" thing is horseshit. Yes, even in NY (remember, a jury of your peers is a jury of your peers.) If you reasonably think they are going yo kill an innocent third party, and you have the advantage...

Yeah.

I don't like your friend.

 

[Day444]

Stupid on so many levels! You have a gun, stand a safe distance away and take command of the situation. Yes, you are justified to shoot the scum bag! Scum bag is posing an imminent threat of deadly harm to the clerk. Warning shots, are the cops on the way and this guy is shooting a gun? Guess who gets shot by the responding cops? Ok, they were lucky and will live to sell more Slurpee's. Bad guy is real lucky he didn't wind up with lead poisoning.

 

[Darth]

I don't like your friend.

I don't like you.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I don't like you.

 

[dwa12479]

Bearing Arms better have a talk with their writer -

The employee managed to release the clip from Thornton’s gun, then grab the gun itself. He loaded the clip back into the gun and fired several shots into the ceiling, the video shows.

Bearing Arms used a cut and paste from the story found at Cleveland.com.

Video shows employees of Cleveland convenience store disarm robber, hold him at gunpoint

 

[Darth]

Now I feel bad too.

 

[Apeman]

"I honestly believe the "NEVER SHOOT HIM IN THE BACK" thing is horseshit. Yes, even in NY (remember, a jury of your peers is a jury of your peers.) If you reasonably think they are going yo kill an innocent third party, and you have the advantage..."

I agree. If someone pulled out a gun in a store and stated shooting while they had their back to you why the hell would you wait for him to turn toward you before you fire? Put him down before he can turn on you or shoot someone else.

I

 

[HighlandLofts]

If I shake my head any harder I'm gonna need a chiropractor appt in the morning. What an epic fail on so many levels.

If you do need a "CHIROPRACTOR" hook up with Dr. Evil, he will take great care of you and being a fellow gun forum member you might get a "New York Gun Forum" discount.

 

[Glenn B]

If I shake my head any harder I'm gonna need a chiropractor appt in the morning. What an epic fail on so many levels.

No, it absolutely was not an epic failure. In fact, the employees won the fight and survived. Did they do it in the way I would have done it, no they did not. Did they make a lot of mistakes, yes they did. Now ask yourself, did they do anything right. You bet your life they did. If you (generic) don't see what they did right you are missing an awful lot. They engaged an armed intruder instead of having their fellow employee remaining at his mercy. They fought for their lives with all they had in them. When a one of them could get away, because the second employee intervened, what did he do but loyally remain in the fight instead of fleeing for his life. He continued the fight and to help the other employee. Then, amazingly enough, despite all the things I would probably never have done or at least hope I would not have done because of my years of training and experience, what did they do but wind up in control of the situation and of the bad guy until the police arrived. Nope they were not very smart, efficient, or tactical about how they did it but in the long run - they did not fail - they won.

Were they lucky? Sure they were but maybe whoever was behind the counter would have been dead had they not taken action. That person was lucky too, to have such loyal fellow employees. I wonder where was that person during the fracas. Supposedly the employee behind the counter also drew a firearm as the fight was ongoing but was wise enough not to fire at the risk of the other employees' lives. I am guessing that employee took cover or at least concealment behind the counter while waiting for a chance to shoot if a chance came but it did not. Otherwise maybe he was frozen with fear shitting himself. We will probably never know which.

 

[Uzi]

How to get killed during an armed robbery faster and easier.

 

[Saltwater60]

First guy from the store with the gun got too close and as soon as the guy started turning around he should have shot him. Second guy with the gun from the store had a perfect head shot while they were wrestling with the guy. I would have fired at that point. The gun was pointed right at the guys head. 2 major mistakes. Third is shooting into the ceiling.

 

[Automan21]

All three are freakin fools. 3 guns sweeping that whole store thank god it wasn't full of shoppers. I would have shot as soon as I got a clear view of the robber and the clerk wasnt behind him.

 

[dwa12479]

No, it absolutely was not an epic failure. In fact, the employees won the fight and survived. Did they do it in the way I would have done it, no they did not. Did they make a lot of mistakes, yes they did. Now ask yourself, did they do anything right. You bet your life they did. If you (generic) don't see what they did right you are missing an awful lot. They engaged an armed intruder instead of having their fellow employee remaining at his mercy. They fought for their lives with all they had in them. When a one of them could get away, because the second employee intervened, what did he do but loyally remain in the fight instead of fleeing for his life. He continued the fight and to help the other employee. Then, amazingly enough, despite all the things I would probably never have done or at least hope I would not have done because of my years of training and experience, what did they do but wind up in control of the situation and of the bad guy until the police arrived. Nope they were not very smart, efficient, or tactical about how they did it but in the long run - they did not fail - they won.

Were they lucky? Sure they were but maybe whoever was behind the counter would have been dead had they not taken action. That person was lucky too, to have such loyal fellow employees. I wonder where was that person during the fracas. Supposedly the employee behind the counter also drew a firearm as the fight was ongoing but was wise enough not to fire at the risk of the other employees' lives. I am guessing that employee took cover or at least concealment behind the counter while waiting for a chance to shoot if a chance came but it did not. Otherwise maybe he was frozen with fear shitting himself. We will probably never know which.

Yes, they did choose to fight instead of rolling over as victims, I'll certainly give them their due credit there. But that's about all.
The guy from the back came running out with a gun and closed the distance between him and the BG right up to putting the muzzle in his back. He was VERY lucky that didn't get a discharge from the BG into his buddy behind the counter at that point. He was lucky to win the fight, and then ended the encounter firing warning shots into the ceiling. Being lucky doesn't negate the many stupid decisions that were made.

 

[NY Leatherneck]

I wouldnt buy sushi there for sure!!

 

[Shadow2]

If Woody Had Gone To The Police, This Never Would Have Happened