Hunting pistol or hunting rifle?

[That_FNG]

So I have an AR type stripped lower waiting for me to take delivery of. I’ve been debating about having either an AR pistol or an AR rifle set up for hunting. I’m leaning towards 300 blackout, 458 Socom/450 bushmaster or 350 legend. It would be a either be a semi auto fixed magazine firearm, or a detachable magazine bolt action/manually operated firearm with no gas system. It would also see very occasional range use as a secondary function. So I’m looking for opinions on the pros and cons of going either way with it.

 

[Acer-m14]

when hunting .. pros n cons .. if your old .. a light rifle is better lol ..

and I'm prolly taking the Mosin M44 out this year again .. because i want too ..

do what you want .. just put the meat in the freezer is the end game

i think it was 2 yrs ago .. my friends got a 10mm Glock .. wanted to hunt deer with it .. he got one

just like i did with the Mosin 91/30 ..

 

[1075tech]

I purpose built my AR pistol (6.5 Grendel) for hunting. "Fixed mag" 5 rounds. My 300 yard deer pistol lol.

First thing I did when I got here was remove the mag lock. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to add a foregrip and make it an "other" (>26") or SBR it.

 

[Saltwater60]

G

when hunting .. pros n cons .. if your old .. a light rifle is better lol ..

and I'm prolly taking the Mosin M44 out this year again .. because i want too ..

do what you want .. just put the meat in the freezer is the end game

i think it was 2 yrs ago .. my friends got a 10mm Glock .. wanted to hunt deer with it .. he got one

just like i did with the Mosin 91/30 ..

Great advice on the weight. My shotgun is way lighter than my AR for hunting. I bring them both and if I’m sitting I’ll use the AR, but otherwise it’s a walk and stalk the shotgun is 3lbs lighter and wow what a difference 3 lbs makes.

 

[That_FNG]

G

Great advice on the weight. My shotgun is way lighter than my AR for hunting. I bring them both and if I’m sitting I’ll use the AR, but otherwise it’s a walk and stalk the shotgun is 3lbs lighter and wow what a difference 3 lbs makes.

That is something I’m keeping in mind. The last AR rifle I made weighed about 6lbs and was noticeably lighter than my mossberg 590 shotgun. I’m trying to ultilize things I already have in order to keep cost down. I think I’m leaning towards 300 black out as I can ultilize a lot of things I already have, plus I can reload it from the 5.56 fired brass I have . I do have 357 magnum, 40 S&W and 45acp handguns currently, but I’m not sure the suitability of using them for deer hunting.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Don't say 300blk out loud.. someone will come in and tell you that it's impossible to kill a deer with the round

 

[meketrefe]

If I had a choice between a healthy bladder and enlarged 60 yo prostate I am going to choose the first one. I can piss with both but with the better one I can piss in a can 10 ft away like when I was 18 years old.

One can make a compact very handy 16" carbine that is 5lbs.

Interesting didn't mention a 7.62x39 with the hybrid chamber that takes both AK and 30 cal bullets. 154gr SP steel ammo is economic and effective in deer otherwise 30 cal reloads have endless possibilities.

Also the 6.8 is a better hunting choice both as carbine and pistol.

 

[Vapor]

Don't say 300blk out loud.. someone will come in and tell you that it's impossible to kill a deer with the round

A .22 magnum solid will go through both sides of one if it doesn't hit shoulder bone.


A 55 grain sort point that's will constructed will break both shoulders.


Don't ask me how I know lol.



Yet most fudds want a rifle suitable for water Buffalo to hunt a 200lbs whitetail. I guess they enjoy punishment time with their mistress.

 

[Edwardteach72]

A .22 magnum solid will go through both sides of one if it doesn't hit shoulder bone.


A 55 grain sort point that's will constructed will break both shoulders.


Don't ask me how I know lol.

How do you kn............

 

[Vapor]

How do you kn............

Because sometimes when your family is hungry you hunt with what you've got.


Not saying it was me. I was only 9 or 10 at the time.


40 grain .22 mag solid went through both sides straight through the vital. Just as dead as anything else, but it was very well placed.


I'll take mediocre power with perfect placement any time over a .300 win mag in the guts. People are fools if they think shot placement errors can be fixed with brute muzzle energy.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Because sometimes when your family is hungry you hunt with what you've got.


Not saying it was me. I was only 9 or 10 at the time.


40 grain .22 mag solid went through both sides straight through the vital. Just as dead as anything else, but it was very well placed.


I'll take mediocre power with perfect placement any time over a .300 win mag in the guts. People are fools if they think shot placement errors can be fixed with brute muzzle energy.

No I didn't ask


Lmao

 

[That_FNG]

If I had a choice between a healthy bladder and enlarged 60 yo prostate I am going to choose the first one. I can piss with both but with the better one I can piss in a can 10 ft away like when I was 18 years old.

One can make a compact very handy 16" carbine that is 5lbs.

Interesting didn't mention a 7.62x39 with the hybrid chamber that takes both AK and 30 cal bullets. 154gr SP steel ammo is economic and effective in deer otherwise 30 cal reloads have endless possibilities.

Also the 6.8 is a better hunting choice both as carbine and pistol.

The reason I rule out 7.62x39 is that I already shoot 5.56 and have a ton of once fired 5.56 brass that can be repurposed into 300 blackout. I also find that 300 blackout offers the same performance up to 200 yards that 7.62x39 offers. I also have tons of 5.56 mags to pick from that I can utilize as a 300 blackout magazine. If I didn’t already have these things then I would most likely be looking at 7.62x39 as it seems to be a suitable 0-200 yard deer cartridge for hunting in wny

 

[That_FNG]

I also think I am leaning towards going the rifle route. Being able to shoulder it with a stock offers obvious accuracy benefits to me. I could then go fixed magazine and pistol grip or featureless with a thordsen stock to have detachable magazine.

 

[Edwardteach72]

@That_FNG hear me out. It's still new but the performance looks amazing... and still works in ar15 lowers and what not.


6mm arc

 

[Edwardteach72]

@That_FNG hear me out. It's still new but the performance looks amazing... and still works in ar15 lowers and what not.


6mm arc

From a 12.5" it seems to be a sweet performer

 

[Acer-m14]

G

Great advice on the weight. My shotgun is way lighter than my AR for hunting. I bring them both and if I’m sitting I’ll use the AR, but otherwise it’s a walk and stalk the shotgun is 3lbs lighter and wow what a difference 3 lbs makes.

yep .. i messed with my 223 bolt savage .. pulled the butt plate and foam from the stock and filled it with bondo fiberglass and added weight
in the forearm .. .. its nice on the bench shooting paper .. but out in the middle of hay field yote hunting that 6 to 7 pound rifle got heavy fast ..

yes i was hunting yotes with a bolt .. ... had a friend with his AR as back up ..

 

[That_FNG]

@That_FNG hear me out. It's still new but the performance looks amazing... and still works in ar15 lowers and what not.


6mm arc

I have not heard of that round and am not familiar with it. What benefits does it offer and in regards to an AR what is different compared to a 5.56 AR? With 300 blackout all I need different is a different barrel essentially. I can use the same bolt, upper receiver, hand guards, magazines etc as a 5.56 gun, plus reuse 5.56 brass.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I have not heard of that round and am not familiar with it. What benefits does it offer and in regards to an AR what is different compared to a 5.56 AR? With 300 blackout all I need different is a different barrel essentially. I can use the same bolt, upper receiver, hand guards, magazines etc as a 5.56 gun, plus reuse 5.56 brass.

Different barrel and bolt and mags.. so more changes than 300blk but way more energy and B/C from a short barrel than a 5.56

6mm arc is similar to the 6.5 Grendel but performs better

6MM ARC vs 6.5 Grendel Cartridge Ballistics and Performance Comparison | Sportsman's Warehouse

Ballistics and usage performance comparison between the 6MM ARC vs 6.5 Grendel rifle cartridges.

www.sportsmans.com

 

[That_FNG]

You

Different barrel and bolt and mags.. so more changes than 300blk but way more energy and B/C from a short barrel than a 5.56

6mm arc is similar to the 6.5 Grendel but performs better

6MM ARC vs 6.5 Grendel Cartridge Ballistics and Performance Comparison | Sportsman's Warehouse

Ballistics and usage performance comparison between the 6MM ARC vs 6.5 Grendel rifle cartridges.

www.sportsmans.com

interesting. I can use same upper reciever and handguard. Barrel, bolt and magazine being different isn’t bad. Only would need 2 magazines (1 to use and 1 as a spare). Looks like bullet weight is around 108 grains, which is a little lighter than 300 blackout 125-220 grains. Would that be sufficient for deer?

 

[meketrefe]

The reason I rule out 7.62x39 is that I already shoot 5.56 and have a ton of once fired 5.56 brass that can be repurposed into 300 blackout. I also find that 300 blackout offers the same performance up to 200 yards that 7.62x39 offers. I also have tons of 5.56 mags to pick from that I can utilize as a 300 blackout magazine. If I didn’t already have these things then I would most likely be looking at 7.62x39 as it seems to be a suitable 0-200 yard deer cartridge for hunting in wny

The blackout doesnt offer the same performance as the 7.62x39. That is what the 300 fans club will tell you but it is a big fat lie.
We can talk about ammo and rounds in a separate thread.
But if you want to share common components like the 223 brass what about some of the easiest of all options like the 6x45, 6TCU, 25x45, 6.5 or 7 TCU ?
The 6.5 and 7 will need a mag with rebated ribs. if you are going to lock it in the action just get one from wilson combat for the 7.62x40.
Maybe you will also like the 7.62x40 known now as 30 HamR that because of the extra powder is more closely matching the modern 7.62x39.
Prepping 5.56 bras for this is not as easy as the 6x45 , Tcu but it is much easier than the blackout and like the others above it leaves the anemic blackout in the dust

300 HAM'R Rifles | Wilson Combat

The 300 HAM’R® offers effectiveness on large game animals with amazing accuracy and low recoil in the lightweight and compact AR15 platform.

www.wilsoncombat.com

Here is the magazine also good for some of the TCUs

MAGAZINE, AR-15, 300 BLK/300 HAM'R/7.62X40 WT, 10 ROUND, POLYMER | LANCER

Enjoy a tough combat magazine in a compact size with the Lancer® L5 10-Round Advanced Warfighter Magazine.

shopwilsoncombat.com

There is nothing to investigate or to be proven. All is already done so take advantage.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You

interesting. I can use same upper reciever and handguard. Barrel, bolt and magazine being different isn’t bad. Only would need 2 magazines (1 to use and 1 as a spare). Looks like bullet weight is around 108 grains, which is a little lighter than 300 blackout 125-220 grains. Would that be sufficient for deer?

Looking at some quick numbers

Hornaday Black ammo for each

300blk - 110g bullet (hornady Vmax black) from a 16" barrel is advertised at 2375fps with muzzle energy of 1377ftlbs

6mm arc - 105g bullet (hornady black ammo) is going (from a 24" barrel) 2750fps with 1763ftlbs of energy.

I'll see if I can find any data on shorter barrels, but the small info I have been seeing is 6mm arc does very very well out of a 12.5" especially compared to 5.56 (even 77g)

 

[Edwardteach72]

You

interesting. I can use same upper reciever and handguard. Barrel, bolt and magazine being different isn’t bad. Only would need 2 magazines (1 to use and 1 as a spare). Looks like bullet weight is around 108 grains, which is a little lighter than 300 blackout 125-220 grains. Would that be sufficient for deer?

Here we go. From Hornaday reloading manual.

Has barrel length with fps for 108 and 110 grain bullets and MAX charge.. looks like a 12" barrel with Max charge is getting you right around where 300blk is from a 16" barrel (granted 300blk is optimized for a 9" barrel)

 

[Xae289]

Pistols may be legal hunting weapons in some places where rifles aren't. That's the biggest reason I've been mulling over an AR pistol build. That and having a compact, handy little weapon chambered in a rifle caliber.

As it is, I have a .300 Blackout rifle. It weighs exactly the same as my Remington 700 in .270, but is several inches shorter. The length savings makes it very handy in tight quarters like walking through brush or in a tree stand. I've considered lightening it, but the weight doesn't bother me since I don't hike very far with it.

For reference, my .300 Blackout handloads from a 16" barrel, I get about 2450 fps from a 110 grain Barnes Tac-Tx, and about 2400 with 110 grain Hornady V-Max, which is about the same as I get from Hornady's factory ammo with the same bullet.

With a longer barrel, I'd say the 6mm ARC is the winner, hands down, but there's not much difference with a 16" barrel. The .300 Blk will only need about 20 grains of H110 to get you there, so you'll get a few more rounds per pound of powder if you're counting pennies. In all reality, I doubt there would be much difference in performance at close range.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Pistols may be legal hunting weapons in some places where rifles aren't. That's the biggest reason I've been mulling over an AR pistol build. That and having a compact, handy little weapon chambered in a rifle caliber.

As it is, I have a .300 Blackout rifle. It weighs exactly the same as my Remington 700 in .270, but is several inches shorter. The length savings makes it very handy in tight quarters like walking through brush or in a tree stand. I've considered lightening it, but the weight doesn't bother me since I don't hike very far with it.

For reference, my .300 Blackout handloads from a 16" barrel, I get about 2450 fps from a 110 grain Barnes Tac-Tx, and about 2400 with 110 grain Hornady V-Max, which is about the same as I get from Hornady's factory ammo with the same bullet.

With a longer barrel, I'd say the 6mm ARC is the winner, hands down, but there's not much difference with a 16" barrel. The .300 Blk will only need about 20 grains of H110 to get you there, so you'll get a few more rounds per pound of powder if you're counting pennies. In all reality, I doubt there would be much difference in performance at close range.

I'd say the 6mm starts winning at distance even between 100-200 yards

 

[Xae289]

I'd say the 6mm starts winning at distance even between 100-200 yards

For sure. In my mind the difference would be range. Woods hunting where the longest clear shot possible is something like 100 yards I would prefer the bigger hole of an expanded .30 cal bullet. Past that, if I had to use one of those, it would be the 6mm ARC for the much better BC, more retained energy downrange, and better sectional density for more penetration.

I think it would be fair to say that the .300 Blackout in a 16" barreled rifle can be used like an 18" barreled .30-30, maybe minus 50 yards max range.

The 6mm ARC surprised me playing with the specs on Shooterscalculator.com. While it starts out a good deal slower than the .243 Winchester, they both drop below the 1000 fpe rule of thumb as a minimum energy for ethically taking deer right around 300 yards assuming a 20" barrel for a .243 and an 18" barrel for the 6mm. So anyone going by that guideline could use both pretty much interchangeably. Impressive for sure.

 

[Edwardteach72]

For sure. In my mind the difference would be range. Woods hunting where the longest clear shot possible is something like 100 yards I would prefer the bigger hole of an expanded .30 cal bullet. Past that, if I had to use one of those, it would be the 6mm ARC for the much better BC, more retained energy downrange, and better sectional density for more penetration.

I think it would be fair to say that the .300 Blackout in a 16" barreled rifle can be used like an 18" barreled .30-30, maybe minus 50 yards max range.

The 6mm ARC surprised me playing with the specs on Shooterscalculator.com. While it starts out a good deal slower than the .243 Winchester, they both drop below the 1000 fpe rule of thumb as a minimum energy for ethically taking deer right around 300 yards assuming a 20" barrel for a .243 and an 18" barrel for the 6mm. So anyone going by that guideline could use both pretty much interchangeably. Impressive for sure.

Yea I have been looking over the 6mm potential and I'm really like what it has to offer, especially at distance over 5.56 (and sounds like it does very well suppressed)

 

[Saltwater60]

Because sometimes when your family is hungry you hunt with what you've got.


Not saying it was me. I was only 9 or 10 at the time.


40 grain .22 mag solid went through both sides straight through the vital. Just as dead as anything else, but it was very well placed.


I'll take mediocre power with perfect placement any time over a .300 win mag in the guts. People are fools if they think shot placement errors can be fixed with brute muzzle energy.

I guy in my town shot deer in a factory field for year with a .22. He’d shoot them in the head in the middle of the night and let them sit to make sure the cops didn’t come. Then he’s go grab them a few hours later. He did it for years and it worked every time.

 

[Saltwater60]

I have a carbon fiber AR handguard if you need something light. I was going to use it in a build and I never did.

 

[That_FNG]

So I found a deal on an AR pistol lower. I think I will do both a pistol and a rifle for hunting. The pistol will be 300 blackout as it is What I would like. The rifle I’m undecided on either 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel. I’m also undecided on barrel length for both

 

[ManrisFrack]

Here we go. From Hornaday reloading manual.

Has barrel length with fps for 108 and 110 grain bullets and MAX charge.. looks like a 12" barrel with Max charge is getting you right around where 300blk is from a 16" barrel (granted 300blk is optimized for a 9" barrel)

View attachment 162997

Very interesting... I don't follow the new AR hotness anymore but I know I can get pretty close to those 18" 6mm ARC numbers with a 115gr in an 18" 6.8 SPC. Yeah, the BC is way better with 6mm, but how much BC do you need on a gun that only hunts to 300 yards (and is usually being used by a guy that shoots accurately to half that).

All these fancy AR-15 cartridges and you'll see miniscule difference when actually hunting with them.