Hunting pistol or hunting rifle?

[1075tech]

I’m also undecided on barrel length for both

Theoretically, with the Nosler 129gr ABLR in my 12" 6.5 Grendel, it would still have enough speed and energy to reliability expand at well over 300 yards.

I don't know anything about the 6 ARC, but the Grendel really isn't that dependant on barrel length. My 16" AR is constantly sub-MOA with the Hornady SST. I took a deer at ~190 yards with it. My 20" Howa will put 5 shots of Hornady Black in the same hole at 100 yards.

 

[Xae289]

So I found a deal on an AR pistol lower. I think I will do both a pistol and a rifle for hunting. The pistol will be 300 blackout as it is What I would like. The rifle I’m undecided on either 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel. I’m also undecided on barrel length for both

I think that's a great move. Don't know how familiar you are with .300 Blk ballistics, so just a heads-up. If you go for a short barrel like a 9", know that a lot of ignorant folk out there claim that a .300 Blk velocity maxes out at 9" and that it slows down with a 16" barrel. That might be true with some subsonic loads, but it's completely false when it comes to supersonic loadings. You can expect the velocity from a 9" barrel at the muzzle to be about the same as from a 16" barrel at 100 yards. So a 110 grain bullet doing like 2100-2200 fps. Still a very solid pistol, but brings it down to around a 150, maybe 200 yard max for reliable terminal ballistics on game. From my research, the best two bullets for deer hunting in the cartridge are the Hornady V-Max and Barnes TAC-TX. I've had good luck reloading those, getting good velocity ans groups pushed with Hodgdon H-110 and CCI Benchrest Small Rifle primers, all in Hornady brass.

As for 6.5 Grendel vs 6 ARC, I wish I had any hands-on experience with either because they look really awesome on paper. If I were choosing between the two, I'd look into which has better hunting bullets available. Those high-BC 6mm ARC ELD-M bullets may be phenomenal on paper at 500 yards, but how do they do at 100 or 200 yards against a deer's shoulder?

 

[That_FNG]

I think that's a great move. Don't know how familiar you are with .300 Blk ballistics, so just a heads-up. If you go for a short barrel like a 9", know that a lot of ignorant folk out there claim that a .300 Blk velocity maxes out at 9" and that it slows down with a 16" barrel. That might be true with some subsonic loads, but it's completely false when it comes to supersonic loadings. You can expect the velocity from a 9" barrel at the muzzle to be about the same as from a 16" barrel at 100 yards. So a 110 grain bullet doing like 2100-2200 fps. Still a very solid pistol, but brings it down to around a 150, maybe 200 yard max for reliable terminal ballistics on game. From my research, the best two bullets for deer hunting in the cartridge are the Hornady V-Max and Barnes TAC-TX. I've had good luck reloading those, getting good velocity ans groups pushed with Hodgdon H-110 and CCI Benchrest Small Rifle primers, all in Hornady brass.

As for 6.5 Grendel vs 6 ARC, I wish I had any hands-on experience with either because they look really awesome on paper. If I were choosing between the two, I'd look into which has better hunting bullets available. Those high-BC 6mm ARC ELD-M bullets may be phenomenal on paper at 500 yards, but how do they do at 100 or 200 yards against a deer's shoulder?

With the 300 blackout in a pistol I would be thinking towards a 220 grain subsonic load. Would be quieter as well out of the same length barrel as a supersonic load. Since us peons in NY can’t have cans on our rifles or pistols I figure going with subsonic loads would be the next best thing

 

[meketrefe]

If you want to get into other casings not derived from the 223 then the 6mm BR, the 6.5BR ot the 35 Gunner leave all others in the dust and they are quite simple but you need to get the

Very interesting... I don't follow the new AR hotness anymore but I know I can get pretty close to those 18" 6mm ARC numbers with a 115gr in an 18" 6.8 SPC. Yeah, the BC is way better with 6mm, but how much BC do you need on a gun that only hunts to 300 yards (and is usually being used by a guy that shoots accurately to half that).

All these fancy AR-15 cartridges and you'll see miniscule difference when actually hunting with them.

The best long range rounds that can be shot form the AR15 are the 6 and 6.5 ARX and from the ones one can order ammo w/o forming brass we also have the 6mmBR and 6.5mm BR. 6.5 is one pass iwth the resizing button and done.
Those require bolt and extensions made by ARP and others and of course are hard to come by but worth every penny.
The 6.5 BR smokes the grendel with about +250fps over a 20" barrel, same thing with the 6BR over the 6mmAR (no marketed as ARC)
Those like any larger 22 or 6mm will enjoy the 20 or 21" barrels (21" optimal max speed) as anything shorter is really loosing some precious burn and speed.

But when it comes to hunting the best assortment of bullets including light for caliber starts with 270 to 358 (9mm).
when you think about it anything larger than 35 or 375 doesn't make much sense no matter what use.
Off the shelve the most popular that is the most consistent killer is the 6.8SPC a favorite hog smasher/texas ranchers, offers the most power in both pistol and rifle form. Look at the LWRC purpose built tactical SPCII uppers that shoot 95gr solid hunting bullets past 2950fps.
Several 100 to 120gr bullets are well proven for hunting in that platform. Nitrocarburized 3R or 5R barrels from ARP as the best but also have wylson and faxxon with amzing super strong bolts with increased radius at the lugs. A couple of companies do the same with their bolts for their cats and use the 7.62x39 recess vs Grendel that is a weaker bolt.
One could also resort to the modern 7.62x39 loaded for the 30 cal bullets. lapua brass is the best but one can find great winchester, S&B, fiocci, etc... brass.

Any of the resized 5.56 cats is a substantial improvement over the donor/parent round 6x45, 6TCU, 6.5TCU and 7mmTCU.
Also if you like 30 caliber bullets the Wylson 7.62x40 (30 HamR) that is a huge advantage of the whisper/blackout that
was originally designed as subsonic round and why it is so anemic. There is just not enough power to hunt with authority
and certain margin. You have to push it really hard to still fall short. As yourself at what range can I have my projectile at a
impact speed of 2100-2200 that is where 90% of hunting bullet construction/engineering work best. Hard to do when
one can barely make those speeds off the gate. This subject is well documented in ethical hunting forums and several threads
on this and previous forums.

And of course the big smashers like the BEO, socom and 450B and 35 gunner in honor of our dear friend Terry Gunner (rip).
We shot and hunted with all of the above and a few more over the years. Those knock out the game consistently like Mike tyson in his prime
vs other exotic fashions that looks good on the internet but lack true hunting power and track record.
Btw the wasp will make a great 6mm/6.8 with the wasp dies and the Herret will also produce an awesome 30 and 35 with
the stock herret dies and moder magazines but my understanding you prefer to reuse the 5.56 brass.
They all have the corresponding custom dies like the whisper or 6mmAR had before marketing took over.

Faxxon will cut you a nr. of barrels in any of the above and another 50 variants more.

Hunting with the AR is fun but also a bit overrated. We owe to the animals to be hunted with the best tools we can find so we do not end up making animals suffer unnecessarily.

 

[meketrefe]

With the 300 blackout in a pistol I would be thinking towards a 220 grain subsonic load. Would be quieter as well out of the same length barrel as a supersonic load. Since us peons in NY can’t have cans on our rifles or pistols I figure going with subsonic loads would be the next best thing

Agree but then send 300 or 400 grains of wide section bullets.
There is a huge difference in the killing potential of a subsonic large bore. Even a flat metplat displaces x3as much fluid and x2 as much TWC as smaller hollow points.That is how we hunted for generations not with subsonic 30 caliber rounds that is a rather a modern and optimistic fashion.
Also the whisper is how was originally designed to be shot with subsonic loads but it can be quite temperamental so I suggest to build it
for subsonic only work with custom gas block or have a tandem gas block with bypass like folks did with other whisper versions.
That works better than many regulators but I guess they are evolving too.

 

[That_FNG]

I appreciate all the help on this topic. After doing more research on cartridges I think I will be ruling out 300 blackout in favor of other cartridges. One thing to bear in mind is that I want as much off the self components as possible, up to complete assembled uppers. I also want to stick to easily sourced factory ammo as I currently don’t have primers and powders for rifles. I plan on buying a couple boxes (100-150 rounds?) of factory ammo and then saving the brass and then reloading it down the road once primers come down in price. 6.5 Grendel and 450 bushmaster seem like the clear winners in that regard as I can find plenty of parts and complete uppers, and plenty of ammo in stock. 6mm ARC and 6.8SPC seem less available for parts and ammo at the moment. I’ve also started looking at 350 legend but it seems the barrels available all have accuracy problems. I’m interested in buy once cry once so to speak, so whatever I pick I don’t want to be redoing it in a couple of years.

 

[Xae289]

I appreciate all the help on this topic. After doing more research on cartridges I think I will be ruling out 300 blackout in favor of other cartridges. One thing to bear in mind is that I want as much off the self components as possible, up to complete assembled uppers. I also want to stick to easily sourced factory ammo as I currently don’t have primers and powders for rifles. I plan on buying a couple boxes (100-150 rounds?) of factory ammo and then saving the brass and then reloading it down the road once primers come down in price. 6.5 Grendel and 450 bushmaster seem like the clear winners in that regard as I can find plenty of parts and complete uppers, and plenty of ammo in stock. 6mm ARC and 6.8SPC seem less available for parts and ammo at the moment. I’ve also started looking at 350 legend but it seems the barrels available all have accuracy problems. I’m interested in buy once cry once so to speak, so whatever I pick I don’t want to be redoing it in a couple of years.

Definitely think those are better choices given what you want to do. I wouldn't tell you not to hunt with subsonic .300 Blackouts, but I don't see the point without a can. I've messed with .300 Blk subs out of my rifle and the volume reduction is nothing to write home about. I wouldn't trade the lethality of high-velocity ammo for that little bit less noise.

Those two cartridges make for a good short and long range combo.

 

[meketrefe]

That is why I mentioned the 7.62x39 with the hybrid chamber that you can shoot with standard ammo or reload with regular caliber bullets. That 110gr TTSX that the blackout shoots at 2300 fps is shot bu the x39 at 2600-2700 fps that is more what one would expect for a light for caliber round.
You also have cheap off the shelf 154gr soft points for deep penetration.
The modern x39 is a more efficient and versatile than the grendel for short barrels and that kind of range.
6.8 is the king of that off the shelve category.
But if you like the grendel find a 264LBC chamber and bolt. It is stronger and better chambering and compatible with grendel ammo. Les baers designed it.

I appreciate all the help on this topic. After doing more research on cartridges I think I will be ruling out 300 blackout in favor of other cartridges. One thing to bear in mind is that I want as much off the self components as possible, up to complete assembled uppers. I also want to stick to easily sourced factory ammo as I currently don’t have primers and powders for rifles. I plan on buying a couple boxes (100-150 rounds?) of factory ammo and then saving the brass and then reloading it down the road once primers come down in price. 6.5 Grendel and 450 bushmaster seem like the clear winners in that regard as I can find plenty of parts and complete uppers, and plenty of ammo in stock. 6mm ARC and 6.8SPC seem less available for parts and ammo at the moment. I’ve also started looking at 350 legend but it seems the barrels available all have accuracy problems. I’m interested in buy once cry once so to speak, so whatever I pick I don’t want to be redoing it in a couple of years.

 

[That_FNG]

Well I picked up my AR pistol lower today and had it added to my permit in every possible caliber that you can put on an AR15 type firearm. Just need to finish searching calibers and then the plan is to start shopping for upper components

 

[That_FNG]

So after much debate I ended up going with a hunting pistol and then decided on caliber. Because I couldn’t make up my mind on caliber, I decided to go with all available calibers from 22 up thru 45 calibers for an AR style short action pistol.