I believe most NYS pistol permits given are "possess on premises" is this correct?

[cgrutt]

It's the same application that's on the NY State/govt website.. but according to the above PL400 statement there are 5 types of licenses (noted as A-E). The only one most of us qualify for is: (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder...that is not a concealed carry at all... "B" is similar but allows you to keep at your place of business if you are a business owner/merchant. The other ones, C-E are concealed carry, but only for bankers, money messengers, govt official, correction officers, etc.

Obviously there is a process to upgrade it to concealed carry but my understanding is that this process is extremely difficult and rare in Westchester County. I can't speak for those further up north..

Premises permit cant be "upgraded" to conceal carry. The concealed carry permit "most" of us qualify under is section "(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof"

 

[drodrigueznyc]

cool, I didn't see an "F" option so if that's the case, then all is well..

 

[wirehairfan]

You missed (f):

(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;

Westchester uses "proper cause" as a weapon to restrict individual right of self defense.

It's the same application that's on the NY State/govt website.. but according to the above PL400 statement there are 5 types of licenses (noted as A-E). The only one most of us qualify for is: (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder...that is not a concealed carry at all... "B" is similar but allows you to keep at your place of business if you are a business owner/merchant. The other ones, C-E are concealed carry, but only for bankers, money messengers, govt official, correction officers, etc.

Obviously there is a process to upgrade it to concealed carry but my understanding is that this process is extremely difficult and rare in Westchester County. I can't speak for those further up north..

 

[drodrigueznyc]

convincing them (ie proper cause) is a very difficult path.. not popular in Westchester County..

 

[Jackalope]

I had permits in two upstate counties and both were unrestricted. But then again, I've had permits for over 40 years.

 

[Different Drummer]

You missed (f):

(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof;

Westchester uses "proper cause" as a weapon to restrict individual right of self defense.

As do other Counties. Or perhaps more correct to say the issuing officer of said other counties takes it upon themselves to do so.

 

[Acer-m14]

It's the same application that's on the NY State/govt website.. but according to the above PL400 statement there are 5 types of licenses (noted as A-E). The only one most of us qualify for is: (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder...that is not a concealed carry at all... "B" is similar but allows you to keep at your place of business if you are a business owner/merchant. The other ones, C-E are concealed carry, but only for bankers, money messengers, govt official, correction officers, etc.

Obviously there is a process to upgrade it to concealed carry but my understanding is that this process is extremely difficult and rare in Westchester County. I can't speak for those further up north..

are you pissed off yet ???
.. bad guys don't have to follow all this BS ..

 

[drodrigueznyc]

hell yeah.. speaking of pissed off.. where's the NY Safe Act thread so I can post some of my thoughts???

 

[bobloveruger]

I went through an NRA sponsored organization for the app process. They also are an FFL and certified firearms safety, etc trainer. The app only alllows you to pick one of three options.. (carry concealed, possess on premises, or possess/carry during employment)

I was specifically instructed to select "carry concealed" see attached.. View attachment 56826

Hi,
Could you tell me is there a restriction word on the front side of your license card? If it is a "Full Carry" restriction, I think there are the "Full Carry' words just below your photo. Is it correct?

 

[Darth]

Hi,
Could you tell me is there a restriction word on the front side of your license card? If it is a "Full Carry" restriction, I think there are the "Full Carry' words just below your photo. Is it correct?

The administrative restrictions depend on the country. Mine does not do that.

 

[bobloveruger]

The administrative restrictions depend on the country. Mine does not do that.

Thank you Darth,

I'm wondering what a Westchester County "Possess in Premises" only license card looks like. I think it is easier to get it than others.

 

[Marine Cpl]

There seems to be confusion here. There is no “Possess on Premises” license that’s issued in NYS except for NYC. Everyone in NYS gets a “Carry License” vía Penal Law 400. The license is the same for everyone. The top of the license will say, “License is Hereby Granted to”. Afterwards your personal information follows.

The only differences is that printed on the license, usually on the bottom left , the license will have printed the words “None” or “Unrestricted” or “Full Carry” or “Sportsmen” or “Hunting and Target” or “Employment” or anything the particular county you live in wants to put in there. They can even put “Only on Sunday’s in Church while wearing a black suit” if they want.

Nothing that they print on there to restrict you is in NYS law Penal Law 400. You can not get arrested and charged for ignoring those restrictions. The very worst that can happen if caught is that the responding police can contact your judge and let him know that you were carrying outside of the restrictions and the judge can either do nothing, suspend your license, or permanently revoke your license. That’s it. They can suspend or revoke because Penal Law 400 gives them the power to do so for any reason.

 

[bobloveruger]

There seems to be confusion here. There is no “Possess on Premises” license that’s issued in NYS except for NYC. Everyone in NYS gets a “Carry License” vía Penal Law 400. The license is the same for everyone. The top of the license will say, “License is Hereby Granted to”. Afterwards your personal information follows.

The only differences is that printed on the license, usually on the bottom left , the license will have printed the words “None” or “Unrestricted” or “Full Carry” or “Sportsmen” or “Hunting and Target” or “Employment” or anything the particular county you live in wants to put in there. They can even put “Only on Sunday’s in Church while wearing a black suit” if they want.

Nothing that they print on there to restrict you is in NYS law Penal Law 400. You can not get arrested and charged for ignoring those restrictions. The very worst that can happen if caught is that the responding police can contact your judge and let him know that you were carrying outside of the restrictions and the judge can either do nothing, suspend your license, or permanently revoke your license. That’s it. They can suspend or revoke because Penal Law 400 gives them the power to do so for any reason.

Thank you Marine Cpl

I saw a person having a license without any word about the restriction, only blank below the photo. I'm wondering what kind of restriction that license has. Just as you said, there is not a "Possess on Premises" only license issued in NYS, so does the blank mean "Nothing" or "No Restriction" that is "Full Carry"?

I think if we do not know completely what restriction our licenses have, it may cause us doing things illegally and get big troubles. That's why I asked this question.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Thank you Marine Cpl

I saw a person having a license without any word about the restriction, only blank below the photo. I'm wondering what kind of restriction that license has. Just as you said, there is not a "Possess on Premises" only license issued in NYS, so does the blank mean "Nothing" or "No Restriction" that is "Full Carry"?

I think if we do not know completely what restriction our licenses have, it may cause us doing things illegally and get big troubles. That's why I asked this question.

The blank means that there is no restriction on the carry license. They could also put the word “None” or “Unrestricted”. It depends on the county. If they write “Target” or anything else, your carry license is restricted to whatever they wrote.

 

[togmaster]

An unrestricted Westchester County permit says Full Carry under the picture.

 

[bobloveruger]

An unrestricted Westchester County permit says Full Carry under the picture.

Thank you togmaster,

I know and I saw someone has that with the "Full Carry" words printed on the license card. But, what is that license card with no word do you think? A mystery license card?

 

[Darth]

Thank you togmaster,

I know and I saw someone has that with the "Full Carry" words printed on the license card. But, what is that license card with no word do you think? A mystery license card?

It's, per penal law sec. 400, to:

(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or
place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof;

 

[bobloveruger]

It's, per penal law sec. 400, to:

(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or
place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof;

Thank you Darth,

It is a little difficult for me to completely understand the words of "proper cause exists" and "the issuance thereof".

I have a pistol license with the restriction of "Target" printed on the card. So I told the guy who has the blank restriction license card that his license was only for "Possess on Premises" because it shows nothing (proper cause exits) you can do for carrying it out. Was I wrong?

 

[Darth]

Thank you Darth,

It is a little difficult for me to completely understand the words of "proper cause exists" and "the issuance thereof".

I have a pistol license with the restriction of "Target" printed on the card. So I told the guy who has the blank restriction license card that his license was only for "Possess on Premises" because it shows nothing (proper cause exits) you can do for carrying it out. Was I wrong?

Yes, you spread misinformation.

 

[bobloveruger]

Thank you very much Darth,

I will tell that guy I was wrong.
Thank you for your help.

 

[Marine Cpl]

They are all the same license. A concealed carry permit. If yours is restricted to target only, then that means that the judge only wants you to conceal carry to the range. No where else. You can ignore him and it isn’t against the law. If you get caught however and the officer makes an issue of it, he can alert the judge where the judge will either ignore the alert, suspend your license, or flat out revoke it.

Many people ignore the judge. No one has ever heard of without hearsay of someone getting their license suspended or revoked for getting caught carrying outside the restrictions. We have 3 NY based forums. Never once has their been a definitive account of that happening. Only a “I once heard...” but nothing else.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Erie county here. Got unrestricted right away on my initial application.

 

[bobloveruger]

They are all the same license. A concealed carry permit. If yours is restricted to target only, then that means that the judge only wants you to conceal carry to the range. No where else. You can ignore him and it isn’t against the law. If you get caught however and the officer makes an issue of it, he can alert the judge where the judge will either ignore the alert, suspend your license, or flat out revoke it.

Many people ignore the judge. No one has ever heard of without hearsay of someone getting their license suspended or revoked for getting caught carrying outside the restrictions. We have 3 NY based forums. Never once has their been a definitive account of that happening. Only a “I once heard...” but nothing else.

Thank you Marine Cpl,

Your advices are very helpful.

 

[bobloveruger]

Erie county here. Got unrestricted right away on my initial application.

Thank you Drinkthekoolaid,

The only words I can say are: "You live in a very enviable county".

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Thank you Drinkthekoolaid,

The only words I can say are: "You live in a very enviable county".

In all fairness....

I did have to wait close to a year from start to finish... And it was a fair amount of time effort and money.

Edit,
Threads like this always make me mad. It's our RIGHT to be able to have a pistol. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops and ask permission and have to deal with a process that is designed to discourage and confuse us. It's very annoying. Just my opinion but always ask for unrestricted. It's your right and you deserve it. The worst that can happen is you're told no. It's better than not trying for it.

 

[Darth]

Thank you Drinkthekoolaid,

The only words I can say are: "You live in a very enviable county".

Living in a state that doesn't require a license for owning a pistol, like the the vast majority of them is enviable.

 

[spat]

In all fairness....

I did have to wait close to a year from start to finish... And it was a fair amount of time effort and money.

Edit,
Threads like this always make me mad. It's our RIGHT to be able to have a pistol. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops and ask permission and have to deal with a process that is designed to discourage and confuse us. It's very annoying. Just my opinion but always ask for unrestricted. It's your right and you deserve it. The worst that can happen is you're told no. It's better than not trying for it.

If requiring someone to show an ID to vote is too onerous because it discourages people from exercising their right to vote, how in the hell can the NYS permit process not be considered too onerous for exercising that right.

I would love to see someone challenge Sullivan on the grounds that it discriminates against minorities because it is such a pain. The left's heads would explode as they tried to decide whether the law needs to stay because "guns" or needs to go because "racism".

 

[Cooolone]

I fail to understand the issue in reading and understanding the law, "as written"...

Article 400 is pretty clear. The fact is, the State, or Government cannot "deny" you your "Rights"... So if you can "read", the silly little part of the law that states you cannot "open" carry, it puts the State in a conundrum... Meaning, that to further "Restrict" your rights by also denying possession (concealed) would get overturned by the SCOTUS. They therefore define that you "may" exercise your right by concealing your possession.

"SO"... The law as written in NY, requires you to "apply" for a permit or license to possess (carry, concealed), period. Possession on your property or in your premises is assumed, vehicle as well. What's so difficult to understand? Any other so called restrictions are "ADMINISTRATIVE" and "NOT" law... Problem is nobody challenges these silly little things, because the system will do all it must, to keep it out of the courts. Counties and judges cannot legislate from the bench... So as noted, stamping anything on a handgun license means nothing. It is not an arrestable offense. And really, using the search function here would provide this content 100x over for review by anyone seeking answers.

Have a nice day!

 

[Chevusa]

This is an excerpt right out of the penal law (400-4a)
In acting upon an application, the
licensing officer shall either deny the application for reasons
specifically and concisely stated in writing or grant the application
and issue the license applied for.

This is why, in my opinion everyone should be applying for "personal protection carry" or whatever your county calls it. People are scared that if they do they will flat out get denied a license. That is not the case. Even if they don't give you it, you will still get a restricted license. By applying for a permit restricted to hunting or target, you are letting the judge off the hook. As I said, you might get restricted anyway but stop asking to be then being mad that you got exactly what you applied for.

On my application I checked the box for personal protection and nothing else. Not target. Not hunting. I wasn't going to tip toe around it.

 

[@thewheels]

Nothing that they print on there to restrict you is in NYS law Penal Law 400. You can not get arrested and charged for ignoring those restrictions. The very worst that can happen if caught is that the responding police can contact your judge and let him know that you were carrying outside of the restrictions and the judge can either do nothing, suspend your license, or permanently revoke your license. That’s it. They can suspend or revoke because Penal Law 400 gives them the power to do so for any reason.

They may want your long guns as well if the hand gun license is revoked.