I don't know what I would do without my 300 blackout

[Robin]

Well, Maybe you are right, but I was around when the huckster (can't remember his name, he was eminently forgettable) was putting out the hard sell on that round and tried to make it sound as if it would make everything from the .22LR to the .50BMG obsolete, So forgive me for enjoying the richly deserved trashing of his nonsense by extension.
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

You guys are both right. It was marketed to be more than it really is but for what it really is designed for, it does it well. That's a suppressed weapon role and a 200 yard and below supersonic round as a bonus with descent terminal ballistics.

 

[meketrefe]

I don't get why .300BLK gets all this hate, it was made for a very specific purpose, for a specific weapon. no different than the FNH 5.7x28m, 6x35mm KAC, or HK 4.6x30mm.

yet people complain that it doesn't do things that it was never intended for.

it was never intended to be used at extended range or to be a precision rifle.

It is not hate, it is more like humor. We love all guns and calibers. I think the response to the 300 Barak is more like a rebound effect from
all the trolling, fantasies and misrepresentations made by so many people selling and using this caliber.

I wished everyone had very clear the benefits and limitations of this caliber as you do. But they don't and they keep bringing it
up for usages and roles that are total fantasy, including putting it ahead of other calibers that are actually demonstrated in service
and decades of use.

The 300 is the Whisper and follows the same logic as the entire whisper line created by JD Jones (SSK industries). Nothing more
and nothing less. The rest is just a sale of a brand, rebranding, royalties, investors and all the internet marketing mambo jambo.

Again, we do not have hate for the blackout per say. We are just trolling back the entire freak show and circus built around it.

 

[meketrefe]

You guys are both right. It was marketed to be more than it really is but for what it really is designed for, it does it well. That's a suppressed weapon role and a 200 yard and below supersonic round as a bonus with descent terminal ballistics.

The whisper was created to be subsonic and it sucks ass in the supersonic world. Even worse than the 7.62x39 considering this is a granddaddy pretty well established as a legacy round all over the world.

Even as a subsonic is not that great and the main reason is because there are no plentiful and affordable well designed high grain copper bullets for it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The whisper was created to be subsonic and it sucks ass in the supersonic world. Even worse than the 7.62x39 considering this is a granddaddy pretty well established as a legacy round all over the world.

Even as a subsonic is not that great and the main reason is because there are no plentiful and affordable well designed high grain copper bullets for it.

How can you say that it's not good as a supersonic? Within short range up to 200 yards is no different than a .308 at long range after it's slown down.

 

[BDinPutnam]

It is a tremendous space shuttle door gun round once gravity takes over.

 

[meketrefe]

How can you say that it's not good as a supersonic? Within short range up to 200 yards is no different than a .308 at long range after it's slown down.

Sorry, I am not following...

I don't know any 308 ammo makers making a 110gr load and if they do they would leave the barrel at 3300 fps.
That is a 400-500 yards round and after that is not a good idea unless is varmints and punching paper.
This would translate into a 100 yards or less for a blackout. Still not many good bullets for many uses other
than varmint.

There are some 125gr deer loads in 308 (like double tap) that will produce a 300-400 max range for white tail.
The blackout will not make it to 100 yards to preserve the slowest possible striking speed for that kind of bullet and for the bullet to activate accordingly as designed.

This is the same for most popular spritzer and solid bullets and following manufacturing recommendations and
assuming one doesn't have to rely only on wounding potential with bullets that are already too light for
caliber and not the ideal weight for hunting unless they are small animals.

In long range this is balanced with grain, momentum (160-180gr) and decent supersonic speeds, things that
the blackout cannot deliver in the supersonic world.

 

[meketrefe]

It is a tremendous space shuttle door gun round once gravity takes over.

One can always use the telephone poles and trees to hold over because most scopes will max out at 9 mils.

Here is an inspiration for a "new wave" of blackout sights...

 

[Marine Cpl]

Sorry, I am not following...

I don't know any 308 ammo makers making a 110gr load and if they do they would leave the barrel at 3300 fps.
That is a 400-500 yards round and after that is not a good idea unless is varmints and punching paper.
This would translate into a 100 yards or less for a blackout. Still not many good bullets for many uses other
than varmint.

There are some 125gr deer loads in 308 (like double tap) that will produce a 300-400 max range for white tail.
The blackout will not make it to 100 yards to preserve the slowest possible striking speed for that kind of bullet and for the bullet to activate accordingly as designed.

This is the same for most popular spritzer and solid bullets and following manufacturing recommendations and
assuming one doesn't have to rely only on wounding potential with bullets that are already too light for
caliber and not the ideal weight for hunting unless they are small animals.

In long range this is balanced with grain, momentum (160-180gr) and decent supersonic speeds, things that
the blackout cannot deliver in the supersonic world.

What I'm saying is that a .308 at let's say 500 yards for argument's sake would be traveling at more or less the .300 Barack's velocity at the muzzle and it's still got plenty of killing power for both man and deer. Within 200 yards, the .300 Barack has those numbers. Even a little more velocity even.

Within 200 yards, it's nothing to sneeze at. Not everyone needs more than that distance. In fact, unless hunting and even then in some cases (where I live I can't get a shot over 100 yards anyway for a deer) it's sufficient.

 

[meketrefe]

What I'm saying is that a .308 at let's say 500 yards for argument's sake would be traveling at more or less the .300 Barack's velocity at the muzzle and it's still got plenty of killing power for both man and deer. Within 200 yards, the .300 Barack has those numbers. Even a little more velocity even.

Within 200 yards, it's nothing to sneeze at. Not everyone needs more than that distance. In fact, unless hunting and even then in some cases (where I live I can't get a shot over 100 yards anyway for a deer) it's sufficient.

200 yards is pushing it due the starting speeds and light for caliber bullets.

It is not a good idea for 200 yards, more like 100 max or 150 in some cases and to be effective.
Of course it can kill at that distance and much more but so many others and much faster and better.
We could say the Barak is better than throwing rocks at any distance.

Think of it as a +P M1 carbine.

If the 7.62x39 was not there that would be one thing but what is the point of making a cartrige that cannot do anything better the 7.62x39 can
do, that btw is already well established and phased out from service anyway?

Want to get extra power out of an AR at any distance? The 6x45 can do that as easy as the 223 itself both super accurate and forgiving.
Or what about the 223 with 70-85gr bullets? it leaves those others in the dust other than subsonic loads.

What subsonic? The pistol calibers give amazing choices, some really easy and affordable.

 

[Marine Cpl]

200 yards is pushing it due the starting speeds and light for caliber bullets.

It is not a good idea for 200 yards, more like 100 max or 150 in some cases and to be effective.
Of course it can kill at that distance and much more but so many others and much faster and better.
We could say the Barak is better than throwing rocks at any distance.

Think of it as a +P M1 carbine.

If the 7.62x39 was not there that would be one thing but what is the point of making a cartrige that cannot do anything better the 7.62x39 can
do, that btw is already well established and phased out from service anyway?

Want to get extra power out of an AR at any distance? The 6x45 can do that as easy as the 223 itself both super accurate and forgiving.
Or what about the 223 with 70-85gr bullets? it leaves those others in the dust other than subsonic loads.

What subsonic? The pistol calibers give amazing choices, some really easy and affordable.

Meke. Not everyone is a ballistics obsessive like you are. If someone has a 5.56 and wants a subsonic gun for home defense and or wants a short range deer gun, the Barack is perfect. Just buy another upper.

 

[meketrefe]

Meke. Not everyone is a ballistics obsessive like you are. If someone has a 5.56 and wants a subsonic gun for home defense and or wants a short range deer gun, the Barack is perfect. Just buy another upper.

Ballistics is not a preference it is a reality. Again if the 6.8spc or 7.62x39 was not there then maybe there will be room for another caliber but otherwise there is nothing there.

 

[zzrguy]

Ballistics is not a preference it is a reality. Again if the 6.8spc or 7.62x39 was not there then maybe there will be room for another caliber but otherwise there is nothing there.

There are a couple of new wildcats the came out of the blackout the 7mm Blackout for a better term and a new win I saw the 6mm based on a cut down 223/5.56 case

 

[meketrefe]

There are a couple of new wildcats the came out of the blackout the 7mm Blackout for a better term and a new win I saw the 6mm based on a cut down 223/5.56 case

The 7mm can have a larger casing that is a huge thing with 5 extra grains. We also have plenty of 120gr bullets that are great for hunting and
with the better ballistics and more decent speeds it will extend the range. But while the 7mm is better for this type of casing still the 6mm is king
and it can be done as simple as the 6x45 or 6tcu that are as easy as pie.

If not the 6mm the 7mm would have been an amazing choice for the 7.62x39 in a high pressure casing. I think the 7mm will do very well in the
Grendel case and while not as good at long range in the 120gr bullets it will launch a 140gr hunting bullet with decent speeds something the grendel
cannot do in natural form. Still it will be hard to justify that with the 6.5 LBC/ grendel around as it is.

Still my 6.5mm AR15 favorite caliber and a wildcat that I kept is the 6.5BR. those 300 extra fps vs. the grendel make a noticeable difference
in both trajectory and momentum on the target.

The 270 and 25 bore are the other usual suspects. The 25 could be an awesome deal too ballistically talking but what it kills this bore is the lack of
bullet selection. That is why the 6mm is perfect because it does everything the 223 does and then the hunting and long range bullet selection starts
where the 22 caliber ends. That is what makes a huge difference w/o going nuts in terms of bore increase or weight but with lots of speed
on whatever target.

If we made a round out of the 223 with the same high pressure case and almost identical dimensions but in 6mm, this will increase the ballistic
performance of the 223 by a 20-30% w/o doing anything else. Same bolts, same magazines, same brass (almost). A service round lets say made
of 80-85gr solid will increase power and will increase the effective range by close to 200 yards give and take. The 6x45 can do this or something
close to the 6mm TCU. For long range these cases can use a 95gr-105gr hpbt that can deliver 1000+ yards trans-sonic range with better trajectories
than many other calibers not so obvious. Not the ultimate sniper round but it will keep those talibans at bay w/o the need of other larger calibers to
provide support. A subsonic of 105gr-115gr is not going to hurt like a 180gr 30 cal or 7mm but it is still a very lethal round for silent use.

But we also have the awesome 6.8SPCII that was disregarded by Remington but others have taken to the new levels in terms of chambers, brass
and loads. This in natural form or even in the aforementioned 6mm version (even better) makes and incredibly effective and lethal round.
Not really need to look anywhere else if one wants a real gain in a very compact package. Also in the SBR is a leader although is not known or
advertised that way.

 

[meketrefe]

Thank you blackout for being a great tool to swag 30 caliber bullets into super long 22 caliber extreme long range bullets....

 

[zzrguy]

Does anyone remember the 30AR from Remington my buddy has one an loves it can do everything the blackout does but better. Just doesn't have the cool name. And the new 224 Valkyrie is based on that case

 

[meketrefe]

Does anyone remember the 30AR from Remington my buddy has one an loves it can do everything the blackout does but better. Just doesn't have the cool name. And the new 224 Valkyrie is based on that case

Hi,
that is the 30 RAR (remington AR). It has a lot of case capacity for short case so the 300 whisper/blackout cannot even begin to compare.
The 30 RAR is based on a 450 bushmaster case that is kind of odd since in many ways it is virtually the same as a 308 bolt face (6mm BR same thing)
but in this case and for an inexplicable reason remington decided on a rim and bolt that is around 20 thusands larger than the popular
308 bolt face type and cases.
Just another contribution to its demise typical with remington despite being a pretty decent casing for the AR. Remington has this history
of introducing new calibers and guns, some pretty decent, but yet failing to follow through with strong marketing and improvements.

The 224 Valkyrie is not based on the 30 RAR case but rather in the 6.8 SPC that is another great remington round, also abandoned by remington
but that has been improved and made very popular by others like wilson, ARP, SSA, LWRC, Federal, etc... This with the 6.8 SPCII (spec 2) chambers
that correct some of the problems found with the first spc chambers.

the 224 Valkyrie is nothing but a rebranding of a popular 6.8 SPC wildcat called 22-6.8 SPC or simply 22 SPC.

But one that is even better is the 6mm SPC due to the amazing assortment of bullets in the 6mm bullet department.
This at the same time is very close to the 6mm WASP that has been around for a long time.

Bolt face of the Valkyrie is .420 that is the same as the wasp and 30 remington that is the parent of the 6.8 spc case.
This 30 remington is not to be confused with the 30 Remington AR that is a shorter and wider case 20 thousands wider
at the base than the 308. The 30 remington is too long for the AR15 platform. The 30 remington is a rimless verision
of the 30-30. Also around .420 before the rim and at the base.

Cartriges commercial or wildcats have pretty incestuous relationships and share same based case designs many times.

The 30 RAR and 450 bushmasters are exceptions because of the stupid bolt face and case based difference with the
308 type standard. Still great calibers for their intended purposes.