I Never Thought I Would Be OK With The Permit Scheme

[Cavalry]

I know a married couple that jumped on the 2020 gun bandwagon and decided to get their pistol permits. I am sure everyone knows this type, fight like cats and dogs then the next day all lovey dovey again. They are both trainwrecks so its fitting they would find each other. Anyway, when I was told a couple months ago when they applied for their permits my first thought was how horribly this could end.
The guy is ok I guess, not complete shithead or waste of society, but just has never mentally progressed past 18 even though he is more than double that age. He had some minor law issues 15+ years ago, I have known people with worse that have gotten a permit with no problem.
Yesterday was his day to go in front of the judge for his PP and was denied. I dont know the exact reason given but I guess the first thing he did was go to a bar get shitfaced drunk, drive home crashing his vehicle in to the house, then proceeded to destroy the interior of the house while wife and kids were there.

I have always believed that the NYPP process was overly draconian and still believe that you should be able to possess with a NICS and CC with a bit more like most states. This was one of the rare instances where this bullshit process may have actually done good.

 

[Bigfoot]

FWIW... He can still get a gun... Just sayin.

 

[S&W Fan]

He sure as hell sounds like a waste to me.

 

[Darth]

Disagree.

 

[Doc8404]

So did they arrest him ?

 

[spat]

I know a married couple that jumped on the 2020 gun bandwagon and decided to get their pistol permits. I am sure everyone knows this type, fight like cats and dogs then the next day all lovey dovey again. They are both trainwrecks so its fitting they would find each other. Anyway, when I was told a couple months ago when they applied for their permits my first thought was how horribly this could end.
The guy is ok I guess, not complete shithead or waste of society, but just has never mentally progressed past 18 even though he is more than double that age. He had some minor law issues 15+ years ago, I have known people with worse that have gotten a permit with no problem.
Yesterday was his day to go in front of the judge for his PP and was denied. I dont know the exact reason given but I guess the first thing he did was go to a bar get shitfaced drunk, drive home crashing his vehicle in to the house, then proceeded to destroy the interior of the house while wife and kids were there.

I have always believed that the NYPP process was overly draconian and still believe that you should be able to possess with a NICS and CC with a bit more like most states. This was one of the rare instances where this bullshit process may have actually done good.

Statistically, China probably has several serial killers imprisoned in their concentration camps too.

Just because some government oppression manages to catch a couple bad guys doesn't justify it.

 

[Cavalry]

So did they arrest him ?

Other than driving hammered I dont think there is any laws about breaking your own shit? Cops were not called, he was not threatening anyone, just a temper tantrum at adult scale.

 

[Cavalry]

Statistically, China probably has several serial killers imprisoned in their concentration camps too.

Just because some government oppression manages to catch a couple bad guys doesn't justify it.

Completely agree. Just an instance where the so called system worked.

 

[Cavalry]

He sure as hell sounds like a waste to me.

Mixed feelings on this one. Productive member of society, held a decent job for the last 20+ years, owns a house. Drinking/anger issues I suppose.

 

[Cooolone]

So judgemental...

Where does it say Rights are bestowed upon Good Character!?

It's not that I don't disagree with the assessment that it could end badly, BUT... that's not to say the artificial administrative attachment to the endowment of rights is utterly ridiculous! The quiet type are actually the mass murderer, serial killer type. Cool, collective, calculating... Just saying!

So unless there's something there, like you said from 15 years ago, like felonious assault, maybe a conviction... And even then, there has been much debate at the SCOTUS level as to "life" sentences beyond conviction and debt paid to society in these instances. Like the banker who stole $, felony conviction, being denied like everywhere and forever from exercising his 2A Rights, while other Rights, like Voting are subsequently allowed/restored.

So you see... When "SCRUTINY" comes into play, it isn't a RIGHT at all. It becomes the manifest of what is ideally acceptable to that particular person reviewing the persons application, errrr, request for PERMISSION to exercise their RIGHT.

It's problematic!!!

Regards!

 

[Celt]

I get your point, but i hope you dont mean to say that its a good thing to have the infringing permit system, or that you agree with it.

The permit process is 100% an infringement, and has proven to be discriminatory and is designed to deter/deny people from exercising their rights regardless of what anyone thinks of someone.

 

[stokes]

Other than driving hammered I dont think there is any laws about breaking your own shit?

Breaking your own shit? How about reckless endangerment,child endangerment, and whatever other domestic violence shit they can charge.

 

[Cavalry]

I get your point, but i hope you dont mean to say that its a good thing to have the infringing permit system, or that you agree with it.

The permit process is 100% an infringement, and has proven to be discriminatory and is designed to deter/deny people from exercising their rights regardless of what anyone thinks of someone.

I absolutely do not agree with the permitting system and agree its an infringement.

 

[Cooolone]

and whatever other domestic violence shit they can charge.

Are you advocating trumping up charges just because you disagree with the particular behavior?

I'll drag some furniture out to my front yard and start smashing the shit out of it with a sledge hammer if that's what I want to do... Don't like it, too bad!

Arguments and yelling is not necessarily a DOMESTIC incident. And children's presence does not legally require me to be of Puritan Values 24/7. Otherwise even drinking in your home would be illegal, so... Where do we go from there? If a child is present, limit what channels can be viewed in a home by law? How about we data dump an account, that has children present in the home and if MTV or Porno is accessed, then charge the parents are well. Lol...

But this isn't about that, is it.

 

[dsdmmat]

This is what happens when governments relieve you of personal responsibility.

 

[S&W Fan]

Are you advocating trumping up charges just because you disagree with the particular behavior?

I'll drag some furniture out to my front yard and start smashing the shit out of it with a sledge hammer if that's what I want to do... Don't like it, too bad!

Arguments and yelling is not necessarily a DOMESTIC incident. And children's presence does not legally require me to be of Puritan Values 24/7. Otherwise even drinking in your home would be illegal, so... Where do we go from there? If a child is present, limit what channels can be viewed in a home by law? How about we data dump an account, that has children present in the home and if MTV or Porno is accessed, then charge the parents are well. Lol...

But this isn't about that, is it.

Seriously!?? Getting shit faced drunk and then driving home only to crash his car into his own home ( where his wife and kids were by the way) and then going inside and tearing the place up in a drunken rage is a temper tantrum to you??

 

[Cooolone]

Seriously!?? Getting shit faced drunk and then driving home only to crash his car into his own home ( where his wife and kids were by the way) and then going inside and tearing the place up in a drunken rage is a temper tantrum to you??

Did you read my post and the post I quoted? It was not the original post with all that involved... Follow the bouncing ball please

 

[Doc8404]

Other than driving hammered I dont think there is any laws about breaking your own shit? Cops were not called, he was not threatening anyone, just a temper tantrum at adult scale.

messily labeled a domestic.

 

[Celt]

I absolutely do not agree with the permitting system and agree its an infringement.

Glad to hear that, its sometimes tricky to 100% accurately interpret the intent of a written statement without verbal and physical cues, and as adamant as most are on this forum about the 2a, your post could be misinterpreted as supporting the permitting scheme by someone if they read it quickly or half paying attention. Your thread title says you are OK with it, so Id expect some pushback.

 

[spat]

Mixed feelings on this one. Productive member of society, held a decent job for the last 20+ years, owns a house. Drinking/anger issues I suppose.

The drinking/anger issues are probably just as bad with knives and gardening implements as they would be guns.

If you lose your temper badly enough to commit murder, it doesn't matter much if you grab a pistol (which they prevented), or you grab a shotgun, meat cleaver, or chainsaw (all of which are still available to him).

I will agree that there are a lot of people out there who shouldn't have guns. Just like there are a lot of people who shouldn't be allowed to vote. What I don’t have is any scheme I would trust to decide how those people should be identified. So, we are stuck with "everybody gets them".

Since voting and gun ownership are fundamental rights, I think they should be tied together. I'd love to see some red states adopt a voter registration process that looks like a NY pistol permit application. Then when the left inevitably challenges it, force them to set the precedents that can be used to overturn the blue state permit processes.

 

[stokes]

I'll drag some furniture out to my front yard and start smashing the shit out of it with a sledge hammer if that's what I want to do... Don't like it, too bad!

Not advocating anything.Smashing your furniture on your front lawn is a far cry from driving your car into your house with the wife and kids inside and then proceding to violently drunkedly destroying the interior.

Arguments and yelling is not necessarily a DOMESTIC incident.

If a neighbor calls the police and they respond,yes, it is a domestic incident.Again, not advocating anything, just pointing out the facts.And arguing and yelling are a far cry from the violent behavior described in the OP.

 

[Celt]

The drinking/anger issues are probably just as bad with knives and gardening implements as they would be guns.

If you lose your temper badly enough to commit murder, it doesn't matter much if you grab a pistol (which they prevented), or you grab a shotgun, meat cleaver, or chainsaw (all of which are still availabke to him).

Plenty of people have what some might call "anger issues", but it doesnt mean they will make the leap to "domestic abuser", or "murderer". A quick temper doesnt necessarily mean a bad or dangerous person.

 

[Cooolone]

Plenty of people have what some might call "anger issues", but it doesnt mean they will make the leap to "domestic abuser", or "murderer". A quick temper doesnt necessarily mean a bad or dangerous person.

^^^THIS^^^

 

[Paxal]

I know a married couple that jumped on the 2020 gun bandwagon and decided to get their pistol permits. I am sure everyone knows this type, fight like cats and dogs then the next day all lovey dovey again. They are both trainwrecks so its fitting they would find each other. Anyway, when I was told a couple months ago when they applied for their permits my first thought was how horribly this could end.
The guy is ok I guess, not complete shithead or waste of society, but just has never mentally progressed past 18 even though he is more than double that age. He had some minor law issues 15+ years ago, I have known people with worse that have gotten a permit with no problem.
Yesterday was his day to go in front of the judge for his PP and was denied. I dont know the exact reason given but I guess the first thing he did was go to a bar get shitfaced drunk, drive home crashing his vehicle in to the house, then proceeded to destroy the interior of the house while wife and kids were there.

I have always believed that the NYPP process was overly draconian and still believe that you should be able to possess with a NICS and CC with a bit more like most states. This was one of the rare instances where this bullshit process may have actually done good.

I doubt it will stop him from killing his wife.

 

[MoMan]

I know a married couple that jumped on the 2020 gun bandwagon and decided to get their pistol permits.

So, does that mean that his wife will be denied her 2A right. just because he was denied his?! I mean, if she gets her permit, then what would stop him from accessing her pistol?? See how stupid the system is?

Why do people automatically go to; "he's dangerous, better not give him his permit", as if no one has ever harmed/killed someone with anything other than a gun!!??

 

[ManrisFrack]

This is what happens when governments relieve you of personal responsibility.

Took me a long time to understand this. Maybe it's a little counterintuitive for many.

Applies to the parent/child dynamic as well.

In any case, it doesn't get brought up nearly enough. Thanks for doing just that.

 

[OwnTheRide]

This was one of the rare instances where this bullshit process may have actually done good.

Perhaps, but there are very likely thousands of applicants that shouldn't have been denied, that were.

Much like I'd rather see 1000 criminals go free than one innocent wrongly convicted, I'd rather have one loose cannon with a gun than 1000 stable people without.

Also, consider the likely reality that this neighbor owns long guns. Pretty much anything bad he might have done with a pistol, he can do with a long gun. So what has really been gained here?

 

[Robin]

Better that millions live under the yoke than one man should be free.
Robin

 

[spat]

This is what happens when governments relieve you of personal responsibility.

They can't relieve you of actual responsibility. Just legal responsibility.

You are always responsible for your own actions, no matter what the media, legislature, and courts declare.

 

[pshift]

I would like to think that most people are "responsible" but everyone nowadays is looking for a scape-goat.