I thought Dick's stopped selling all guns????

[Marine Cpl]

You guys are hilarious. No space for 20 or so cases. I can tour gun shops and post photos of bare walls and empty shelves but it isn’t worth my time.

No demand either. That’s why we all order by the case. Here on this forum. Here in this state. And here in this country.

Yep. It would all go unsold because we don’t buy in bulk. Nobody does as evidenced with online orders and bulk purchases as big box stores. The demand just isn’t there and the demand for duty grade hollow points isn’t there either. Everyone finally listened to me and started carrying ball rounds.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You guys are hilarious. No space for 20 or so cases. I can tour gun shops and post photos of bare walls and empty shelves but it isn’t worth my time.

No demand either. That’s why we all order by the case. Here on this forum. Here in this state. And here in this country.

Yep. It would all go unsold because we don’t buy in bulk. Nobody does as evidenced with online orders and bulk purchases as big box stores. The demand just isn’t there and the demand for duty grade hollow points isn’t there either. Everyone finally listened to me and started carrying ball rounds.

Never mind you clearly dont understand how large stores vs small shops work and I'm wondering if you know what over head is

 

[Marine Cpl]

Never mind you clearly dont understand how large stores vs small shops work and I'm wondering if you know what over head is

Then please explain sir. Explain why having a few things that people usually buy online like federal HST’s is not feasible to carry in a small shop that will get people to come in and browse and perhaps buy other things.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I’m here to learn. Shoot.

 

[BDinPutnam]

In a word, scale.

Thought exercise one: let's stipulate that small shop vs large shop pays the same distributor price (highly unlikely but will make the math easier here).

100 cases @ $200 each = $20,000. That 20 grand means a lot more in the overall budget of a small shop than it does a large retailer.

 

[Marine Cpl]

In a word, scale.

Thought exercise one: let's stipulate that small shop vs large shop pays the same distributor price (highly unlikely but will make the math easier here).

100 cases @ $200 each = $20,000. That 20 grand means a lot more in the overall budget of a small shop than it does a large retailer.

Your math is off. That’s $2000. Not $20,000. And they can buy cases as they sell just like any gun it and hoppes cleaning rod they sell.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Your math is off. That’s $2000. Not $20,000. And they can buy cases as they sell just like any gun it and hoppes cleaning rod they sell.

Pretty sure 100 times 200 is 20,000.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Pretty sure 100 times 200 is 20,000.

Ok. Now tell me why a small shop would need to buy 100 cases? You’ve been to collectors in Dutchess county right? When you see their cases out, do you think they are buying 100 cases at a time?

 

[BDinPutnam]

Its illustrative of the point.

Even that $2,000 for 10 cases means a lot more to a small shop than it does a large one. Hell it is probably an entire month's rent on the store itself. Or possibly the entire month's payroll.

Setting aside line of credit issues, cashflow is vital to (all businesses, really). If they have that $2,000 tied up sitting on the shelf going nowhere, its $2,000 they don't have to pay bills, employees, or replenish stock they have actually been selling.

Got ten case of .223 on the shelf but you're sold out of trap loads? Maybe you dont have the cash flow to buy more trap loads- and that's what people have been buying from you.

So now you have dead capital sitting on the shelf, and dont have product people actually are buying.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I’m here to learn. Shoot.

Its simple the online retailers are able to sell bulk and small quantities at lower cost because they have a larger customer base and also have a larger distributor (because they order is much larger numbers)

Same concept can be applied to box stores, they all have a parent company who have their distributor for say ammo, and because they are buying ammo for all their stores all over their region (or country depending on store) their purchases are in extremely large numbers, like pallets worth per store per caliber so their distributors give them a great deal.

Now comes mom and pop shop who let's say they can afford to order one pallet of 9mm, but that pallet now takes up all their back of the shop storage even after what they put on the shelf, and they sure as hell didnt get it at that great of a price since they may take 3 months to sell all of it they wont be ordering another anytime soon so distribution isnt going to give them at sweet deal that they are giving to Box store XYZ

 

[Marine Cpl]

Its illustrative of the point.

Even that $2,000 for 10 cases means a lot more to a small shop than it does large one. Hell it is probably an entire month's rent on the store itself. Or possibly the entire month's payroll.

Setting aside line of credit issues, cashflow is vital to (all businesses, really). If they have that $2,000 tied up sitting on the shelf going nowhere, its $2,000 they don't have to pay Bill's, employees, or replenish stock they have actually been selling.

Got ten case of .223 on the shelf but you're sold out of trap loads? Maybe you dont have the cash flow to buy more trap loads- and that's what people have been buying from you.

So now you have dead capital sitting on the shelf, and dont have product people actually are buying.

Right but you’re more than likely be selling those cases And turning a profit. Your logic, small gun shops only saw the Glocks since they are the most popular brand out there.

They should never buy that one Ruger LCP and put it on the case to see if anyone buys it.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Its illustrative of the point.

Even that $2,000 for 10 cases means a lot more to a small shop than it does a large one. Hell it is probably an entire month's rent on the store itself. Or possibly the entire month's payroll.

Setting aside line of credit issues, cashflow is vital to (all businesses, really). If they have that $2,000 tied up sitting on the shelf going nowhere, its $2,000 they don't have to pay bills, employees, or replenish stock they have actually been selling.

Got ten case of .223 on the shelf but you're sold out of trap loads? Maybe you dont have the cash flow to buy more trap loads- and that's what people have been buying from you.

So now you have dead capital sitting on the shelf, and dont have product people actually are buying.

Then the only way to move that dead capital is with a sale or even giving it away (hey buy a new gun and get 200 rounds of ammo) now they just took a loss on that ammo they paid for

 

[BDinPutnam]

Right but you’re more than likely be selling those cases And turning a profit. Your logic, small gun shops only saw the Glocks since they are the most popular brand out there.

They should never buy that one Ruger LCP and put it on the case to see if anyone buys it.

See Edward's post above concerning economies of scale when it comes to wholesale vs retail (which also impacts- heavily- profit margins). I skipped it in mine to focus on the low hanging fruit concerning cash flow and credit.

What do you see the *most* of in any of the small shops you go to? Does anyone in the lower Hudson Valley carry H&K for example? Dan Wesson? Precision might, dunno I haven't been there in a while. I know Collectors Carrie's Kimber- presumably because they sell a lot of them.

You do your research and keep track of things and you stock what you think you can sell the most of at the best margin you can.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Its simple the online retailers are able to sell bulk and small quantities at lower cost because they have a larger customer base and also have a larger distributor (because they order is much larger numbers)

Same concept can be applied to box stores, they all have a parent company who have their distributor for say ammo, and because they are buying ammo for all their stores all over their region (or country depending on store) their purchases are in extremely large numbers, like pallets worth per store per caliber so their distributors give them a great deal.

Now comes mom and pop shop who let's say they can afford to order one pallet of 9mm, but that pallet now takes up all their back of the shop storage even after what they put on the shelf, and they sure as hell didnt get it at that great of a price since they may take 3 months to sell all of it they wont be ordering another anytime soon so distribution isnt going to give them at sweet deal that they are giving to Box store XYZ

Listen. I have seen firsthand a small shop that sells bulk ammo. If you go to collectors in Dutchess County, you’ll see that that shop is like the smallest of small. I have seen signs there that say that they are tapped out. There is a demand for it that they cannot keep up with. And they are smart for not ordering hundred cases at a time.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I am not sure where Scott would put 100 cases of anything, to begin with, lol.

But didn't you just make my point? That hes smart for not tying up working capital in buying 100 at a time instead of say ten at a time? That's not just a floorspace issue. It is cashflow.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I am not sure where Scott would put 100 cases of anything, to begin with, lol.

But didn't you just make my point? That hes smart for not tying up working capital in buying 100 at a time instead of say ten at a time? That's not just a floorspace issue. It is cashflow.

Who said anything about 100 at a time except you? He’s smart. He buys what he can to keep people coming into his store. And while there for the ammo, they’ll impulse buy the new Sig P365 that they had no intention of buying but did so because they didn’t realize how small it actually was. He then tells the same guy who bought the 365 that he’ll expect a shipment of bulk in about a week. Now in a week he will come back to his store.

 

[Marine Cpl]

But that’s just bulk. Let’s talk about defensive ammo that doesn’t take up any space. I would go to Gander when I was in the area and I had time to spare to see if they had HST’s so that I could buy a box and not have to pay shipping.

Otherwise I would have to buy multiple boxes online to make it worthwhile.

 

[BDinPutnam]

But that’s just bulk. Let’s talk about defensive ammo that doesn’t take up any space. I would go to Gander when I was in the area and I had time to spare to see if they had HST’s so that I could buy a box and not have to pay shipping.

Otherwise I would have to buy multiple boxes online to make it worthwhile.

What did that cost you in gas and opportunity cost (time)?

Personally I have very little downtime and for better or worse I have been working in a billable hour model my whole professional life so I know what my time is worth.

I still think you must be a business genius if you're so convinced of these things, and I'm shocked you haven't opened a shop of your own yet.

 

[Marine Cpl]

What did that cost you in gas and opportunity cost (time)?

Personally I have very little downtime and for better or worse I have been working in a billable hour model my whole professional life so I know what my time is worth.

I still think you must be a business genius if you're so convinced of these things, and I'm shocked you haven't opened a shop of your own yet.

It cost me nothing in gas as I was already in the area. As far as being a business genius, it doesn’t take a genius to know that if you sell what people buy lots of, you’ll turn a profit even if it’s a small one to get people into your store.

 

[Edwardteach72]

It cost me nothing in gas as I was already in the area. As far as being a business genius, it doesn’t take a genius to know that if you sell what people buy lots of, you’ll turn a profit even if it’s a small one to get people into your store.

And yet havent you made the comment to the effect "why dont these mom and pop shops sell bulk ammo?"

 

[Marine Cpl]

And yet havent you made the comment to the effect "why dont these mom and pop shops sell bulk ammo?"

Or popular defensive ammo.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Or popular defensive ammo.

I guess they are all just idiots because you cracked the cord on making money here in the thread and yet they cant seem to figure out business

 

[Marine Cpl]

I guess they are all just idiots because you cracked the cord on making money here in the thread and yet they cant seem to figure out business

Either that or just blind followers on what a gun store should be.

Let me see. I’Il put some revolvers and pistols behind the glass. Check. I’ll set up a stand over here of Uncle Mike’s holsters. Check. I’ll set up another stand here dedicated to Hoppes cleaning supplies. Check. Over here I’ll put up a few targets. Check. Over here some real tree hats. Check. And finally over here 20 rd boxes of FMJ and assorted trap loads. Check. Well I think I’m about done. I just got to find me a hang around that’ll hover over the counter and help me give bad advice to customers.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Either that or just blind followers on what a gun store should be.

Let me see. I’Il put some revolvers and pistols behind the glass. Check. I’ll set up a stand over here of Uncle Mike’s holsters. Check. I’ll set up another stand here dedicated to Hoppes cleaning supplies. Check. Over here I’ll put up a few targets. Check. Over here some real tree hats. Check. And finally over here 20 rd boxes of FMJ and assorted trap loads. Check. Well I think I’m about done. I just got to find me a hang around that’ll hover over the counter and help me give bad advice to customers.

Sounds like you got this figured out, now just need your FFL and then you wont have to worry about ammo prices, it will be damn near free for you

 

[Marine Cpl]

Sounds like you got this figured out, now just need your FFL and then you wont have to worry about ammo prices, it will be damn near free for you

You gotta admit that at least 90 percent of the gun stores here are like that. Sometimes you’ll get ones that cater to the AR crowd but most are Fudd based. They all sell Uncle Mikes floppy holsters.

 

[BDinPutnam]

You gotta admit that at least 90 percent of the gun stores here are like that. Sometimes you’ll get ones that cater to the AR crowd but most are Fudd based. They all sell Uncle Mikes floppy holsters.

Pollyanna, have you ever run/owned/operated/financed small retail? Particularly in a capital / cashflow intensive business like, oh, say... firearms and firearms accessories and related good and services?

Go out and do it. You clearly have the magic formula (even if you keep contradicting yourself). If the only shops around are Fudd shops that tells me one of two things:

There is a hugely underserved market for not Fudd, which is awesome because two seconds later you have a monopoly on the non-Fudd market.

Or the Fudds are the ones actually spending money in your AO.

In the alternate alternate- you yourself may be the only customer you have in mind and you think everyone else is you and shops like you.

Hell, I'd partner up with you on a LLP basis just to see you put some skin in the game. Everything else is just you telling other people how to run their businesses. Which I think, not cool.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Pollyanna, have you ever run/owned/operated/financed small retail? Particularly in a capital / cashflow intensive business like, oh, say... firearms and firearms accessories and related good and services?

Go out and do it. You clearly have the magic formula (even if you keep contradicting yourself). If the only shops around are Fudd shops that tells me one of two things:

There is a hugely underserved market for not Fudd, which is awesome because two seconds later you have a monopoly on the non-Fudd market.

Or the Fudds are the ones actually spending money in your AO.

In the alternate alternate- you yourself may be the only customer you have in mind and you think everyone else is you and shops like you.

Hell, I'd partner up with you on a LLP basis just to see you put some skin in the game. Everything else is just you telling other people how to run their businesses. Which I think, not cool.

I’d rather not. Not my thing. I would never slave myself to a business. But if I did and if I were to open it up in my likeness like you say, I would follow the mold and I would not stock Hollow points. But if I wanted to turn a profit or get people into my store, I would stock what they carry everyday. That would be Gold Dots and HST’s and Hornady. Not Remington Hollow points.

Your argument seems to be that the current model is the only thing that works so who am I to say otherwise. I guess other profitable shops like collectors or civil armory didn’t get your memo.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You gotta admit that at least 90 percent of the gun stores here are like that. Sometimes you’ll get ones that cater to the AR crowd but most are Fudd based. They all sell Uncle Mikes floppy holsters.

Oh no you are 98% correct. To top it off you need to have Fox news in the background an NRA sticker somewhere

 

[Edwardteach72]

I mean golden sabers are pretty good and I'd carry them (and have)

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

This discussion (argument?) has me wondering. Maybe it would be a good business venture to have an LAS that sells nothing but ammo and reloading components. No guns. All capital goes into bulk ammo and reloading components. Of course you could still sell the 20, 50 and 100 round boxes but you also have alot of bulk ammo on hand. Of course both the ammo and reloading components would be for more common calibers and you could keep a few oddball calibers onhand.

I realize places like SG ammo already do this but I think people would love to be able to just go and pick ammo up same day instead of having to wait. And no hazmat. This has me thinking now.