I usually agree with Trump, but definitely not on this

[Darth]

I guess I just this differently than others.

That is more than okay with me, we really do not need to agree on every issue to get along.

As wrong as you all are, I will still continue to have conversations here on the forum as well as in person.

Yes, we get it, you are right and we are wrong and you have vastly superior knowledge on this. My problem is that you have not articulated a point. Why is this 4A violation a good thing, in your own words? Why is this different than the criminal on the street stealing from you?

Give us something man!

 

[spat]

A bit of education for us here in NY State...


New York State Asset Forfeiture
Under New York State law, District Attorneys can forfeit “proceeds” of crime and “instrumentalities” of crime. However, in New York, state prosecutors cannot forfeit real property, except in certain drug cases. That means that they are relatively powerless to go after your home. At the very least, it is enormously difficult for state prosecutors to do so and the law provides a weapon in your asset forfeiture attorney’s or seizure defense lawyer’s arsenal in defense of such an attempt.


The term “proceeds” refers to ill-gotten gains and can be cash from a crime, bank accounts, real property (land), and personal property (everything else, including jewelry, stocks, vehicles, electronics, and clothing). Property that is an instrumentality of crime, in the New York State lingo, or that facilitates a crime, in the Federal lingo, is basically the same thing: anything that makes the crime easier to commit. This could also include vehicles, real estate, currency, or other property.


Currently, other than in certain drug and organized crime cases, New York State has no real mechanism for criminal forfeiture. As part of a New York State criminal case and except in certain circumstances, the only way the prosecutor can demand forfeiture is by attaching a forfeiture stipulation as a condition of a plea offer and, even in those circumstances, the District Attorney receives forfeiture only in exchange for agreeing not to file a civil lawsuit pursuant to CPLR 13-A. Because there is generally no criminal forfeiture, Assistant District Attorneys are instead required to file a separate, civil, lawsuit against criminal defendants who do not take a plea. In the case, for example, of a $10,000 seizure from a drug dealer, if there is no negotiated disposition to the criminal case – which could include a stipulation agreeing to a forfeiture in lieu of a civil action – the prosecution might choose not to use scarce resources on a civil lawsuit. Furthermore, a District Attorney’s office cannot forfeit your assets if you have been charged with a misdemeanor, and they cannot seize your real property if you use that property to commit a crime.

Going back and rereading this, why would proceeds of crime be seized, as opposed to being returned to the victims ?

Instrumentalities is just ripe for abuse, all i think of are the people who have their cars seized for soliciting a prostitute.

A crime with a modest fine as a typical penalty if you walk, if you happened to drive, then your $60k truck is gone.

 

[GOPerfect]

I guess I just this differently than others.

That is more than okay with me, we really do not need to agree on every issue to get along.

As wrong as you all are, I will still continue to have conversations here on the forum as well as in person.

Yes, we get it, you are right and we are wrong and you have vastly superior knowledge on this. My problem is that you have not articulated a point. Why is this 4A violation a good thing, in your own words? Why is this different than the criminal on the street stealing from you?

Give us something man!

First off, the part in yellow, you know that it was in jest, a little chance to lighten the mood.

Second, there is no point to articulate in regards to this. My thoughts on this subject are simple. I like the program. I have seen how much these scum crims have taken from society. Day after day, all these fucking animals do is take. They prey on the weaker links in society and are pure vermin. I do not care about them or their ill gotten goods. I do not care if the State takes from them what they have taken from others. I do not care about the feelings of these drug dealers, these murderers and rapists.

We will continue to disagree on this. Not everything that I support has a logic, articulable reason behind it.

 

[NirvanaFan]

Instrumentalities is just ripe for abuse, all i think of are the people who have their cars seized for soliciting a prostitute.

A crime with a modest fine as a typical penalty if you walk, if you happened to drive, then your $60k truck is gone.

Something that should be completely legal to begin with. Two consenting adults should be able to do what they want. I'm still amazed by the amount of people who are pro-choice on the issue of abortion but not pro-choice on the issue of prostitution.

 

[spat]

First off, the part in yellow, you know that it was in jest, a little chance to lighten the mood.

Second, there is no point to articulate in regards to this. My thoughts on this subject are simple. I like the program. I have seen how much these scum crims have taken from society. Day after day, all these fucking animals do is take. They prey on the weaker links in society and are pure vermin. I do not care about them or their ill gotten goods. I do not care if the State takes from them what they have taken from others. I do not care about the feelings of these drug dealers, these murderers and rapists.

We will continue to disagree on this. Not everything that I support has a logic, articulable reason behind it.

Your mistake is in assuming that the vermin are the only people that get caught up in this.

How much collateral damage is acceptable to you ? Because real decent honest people do get screwed out of their life savings because of this practice.

 

[GOPerfect]

Your mistake is in assuming that the vermin are the only people that get caught up in this.

How much collateral damage is acceptable to you ? Because real decent honest people do get screwed out of their life savings because of this practice.

I don't want to go round and round too much here...

But, because a few innocent people may or may not get hurt due to this program, it should be stopped? Hell, we should completely get rid of the Death Penalty, the court system, the entire Penal System and more because a few innocent may get caught up in them.

As for the question of collateral damage; it surrounds us, I guess I am okay with some. But then again, that is what the court system is here for.

Do not fret, I know that you will not agree and that is ok!

 

[spat]

I don't want to go round and round too much here...

But, because a few innocent people may or may not get hurt due to this program, it should be stopped? Hell, we should completely get rid of the Death Penalty, the court system, the entire Penal System and more because a few innocent may get caught up in them.

As for the question of collateral damage; it surrounds us, I guess I am okay with some. But then again, that is what the court system is here for.

Do not fret, I know that you will not agree and that is ok!

I suspect that the root of our whole disagreement comes down to differences in our tolerance for collateral damage.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I hate all of you.

 

[masterswimmer]

I hate all of you.

Doc you're filled with so much hate and vitriol on such a loving day. It's Valentine's Day! Love and peace to all.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Doc you're filled with so much hate and vitriol on such a loving day. It's Valentine's Day! Love and peace to all.

I hate you all in a loving sort of way.

 

[masterswimmer]

I hate you all in a loving sort of way.

I feel better!

 

[dsdmmat]

/CAF should never go into the coffers of the agencies/ government's general fund that seized it. It should only go into a victims fund that is not associated with any government/ LE agency. That way there is less incentive to abuse the CAF statutes.

 

[GOPerfect]

/CAF should never go into the coffers of the agencies/ government's general fund that seized it. It should only go into a victims fund that is not associated with any government/ LE agency. That way there is less incentive to abuse the CAF statutes.

This, I am okay with!

 

[1911guy]

The fact that we can disagree so strongly and still have a civil discussion is what separates us from the animals, the 2 legged ones anyway.

If you ever find that you are in agreement with everyone you discuss something with, you are probably missing some important perspective on the issue.

Without Doubt, that is the best statement of 2017 to date.

 

[Shadow2]

Sorry nothing about it is constitutional, innocent until proven guilty, It's your property until due process says it was illegally obtained or it is without a doubt evidence.

 

[Shadow2]

Karma ... those who feel collateral damage is ok, may it only happen to you.

 

[GOPerfect]

Karma ... those who feel collateral damage is ok, may it only happen to you.

So, in regards to this collateral damage, I asked earlier, I will ask again.

Should we get rid of the entire Judicial System because sometimes mistakes occur and the wrong person goes to jail?

Should we completely end the Death Penalty for the same reasons?

Honest questions. There is this "Collateral Damage" in nearly every aspect of life.

 

[prambo]

I hate you all in a loving sort of way.

I feel better!

I've got a woody!! Stop the dry humping already!

 

[livingston]

Chris Christie vetoes unanimous bill that would make NJ cops disclose what they seize through asset forfeiture
Civil asset forfeiture is the bizarre American practice of seizing peoples' property without charging its owner: instead the property is charged with being the ill-gotten gains of a crime, and if the owner doesn't pay their property's legal bills, the police get to keep or sell the property.


Asset forfeiture has been on the ropes for the past couple years, as Congress defunded a DoJ program that helped small-town (and big city) cops figure out how to pad their budgets through forfeiture; states got in on the game, putting limits on forfeiture or banning it altogether.
Not New Jersey, though, thanks to Governor Chris Christie. After both houses of the NJ legislature passed a modest forfeiture reform that would require Jersey cops to submit an annual report to the NJ Attorney General listing which goods had been seized, Christie vetoed it, stating the suppressing public disclosure of seizures was necessary to "protect law enforcement operations and personnel."
Chris Christie vetoes unanimous bill that would make NJ cops disclose what they seize through asset forfeiture

 

[Jmac00]

First off, the part in yellow, you know that it was in jest, a little chance to lighten the mood.

Second, there is no point to articulate in regards to this. My thoughts on this subject are simple. I like the program. I have seen how much these scum crims have taken from society. Day after day, all these fucking animals do is take. They prey on the weaker links in society and are pure vermin. I do not care about them or their ill gotten goods. I do not care if the State takes from them what they have taken from others. I do not care about the feelings of these drug dealers, these murderers and rapists.

We will continue to disagree on this. Not everything that I support has a logic, articulable reason behind it.

so if you're found not guilty, the state should keep you car/house/boat/cash..... that's called stealing.

 

[GOPerfect]

so if you're found not guilty, the state should keep you car/house/boat/cash..... that's called stealing.

Not all of the time, no. I think there are two big issues at hand in regards to this program.

One, too many people do not understand and it, and

Two, there are to many agencies abusing the program.

Both are to expected with a government run system.