Importance of multiple sources when reloading.

[gun_slinger_boy]

I know there are a few on the forum that are just starting out reloading so I wanted to point out the importance of having multiple sources for load data. I have a 9th edition Hornady hard cover and also using Hodgdon reloading site. I have a 130gr boolit I'd like to try out for the 300 BLK. The load data testing parameters are as follows

Hodgdon
barrel = 16" with 1:8 twist
primer = Remington 7 1/2, Small Rifle Magnum
case trim length = 1.363

Hornady
barrel = 16" with 1:7.5 twist
primer = Winchester small rifle (this is a magnum primer by default)
case trim length = 1.358

All things being equal except the .5 inch twist difference and the .0005 trim length difference which realistically won't make any difference at all this is what they list.

Hornady uses a range for bullet weights 125-130gr. Then for H110 they have a starting weight of 14.6gr working up by 1 grain increments to a max of 18.8.

Hodgdon has separate weights of 125 and 130.
125gr simply has a starting weight of 15.7 and max of 18.5
130gr has starting weight of 17.1 and max of 18.6

The problem here is Hodgdon's starting weight for the 130gr bullet is nearly the max charge Hornady has for 125-130gr bullets. Granted they're not using the same exact bullets but they are of equal weights and are all jacketed. This by the way you have to account for many of the times since the exact boolit you're using may not be listed. So anyway, this one is a no brainer. You would be better to start with the Hornady load data and work up from there. Hope this can help someone out in the future.

 

[dsdmmat]

You have to look at the cases they use to get the data as well.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

They're both Hornady lol. But I don't consider the case as important to the whole scheme of things to be honest. I'm actually using formed 556 brass.

 

[MilesTeg]

That's why I like to buy the caliber specific books from midway or brownells. That way you have multiple sources all in one spot. I also have a few of the main reloading manuals.

 

[kev74]

Good tip!

Starting low and working up is always a good idea. As a bonus, most that I've wrung out for accuracy have done best on the lower end of the curve. That means less powder consumed and less wear on the gun.

 

[repete]

They're both Hornady lol. But I don't consider the case as important to the whole scheme of things to be honest. I'm actually using formed 556 brass.

For the most part, true. But in some cases the cartridge case IS just as important, some 9mm cases have a step or sleeve inside the case and that reduces the volume of the case, if you don't take that into consideration extreme high pressures can result. I believe the brand name on that brass is Maxx or something like that, I've only seen a couple and tossed them all.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

For the most part, true. But in some cases the cartridge case IS just as important, some 9mm cases have a step or sleeve inside the case and that reduces the volume of the case, if you don't take that into consideration extreme high pressures can result. I believe the brand name on that brass is Maxx or something like that, I've only seen a couple and tossed them all.

I have actually seen casings in 45ACP if I can remember correctly. Can't remember the brand but they seem to be relatively rare in the states. I would just throw them away. Here's a couple of videos on the subject.

Is it Safe to Reload MAXXTech, AMMOLOAD, IMT, FM 9mm Brass? - The Reloaders Network

I came across some AMMOLOAD and IMT 9mm brass that has what appears to be a sleeve (or step or ledge) inside. I assume this is there to reinforce the case head and to prevent bullet set back, but I want to know if it presents a safety issue for reloaders as it reduces the case capacity, and as a...

www.thereloadersnetwork.com

 

[Acer-m14]

I have actually seen casings in 45ACP if I can remember correctly. Can't remember the brand but they seem to be relatively rare in the states. I would just throw them away. Here's a couple of videos on the subject.

Is it Safe to Reload MAXXTech, AMMOLOAD, IMT, FM 9mm Brass? - The Reloaders Network

I came across some AMMOLOAD and IMT 9mm brass that has what appears to be a sleeve (or step or ledge) inside. I assume this is there to reinforce the case head and to prevent bullet set back, but I want to know if it presents a safety issue for reloaders as it reduces the case capacity, and as a...

www.thereloadersnetwork.com

i think his case bulge is cuz the bullet went past or into that internal rim ..
what was the org bullet weight 120gr and your stuffing a 147gn in it ummm

you best bet with this case is to deconstruct a live round ..

weigh the bullet

weigh the powder , see how far up the powder fills the case .. take notes ..

using your powder drop the same weight and if it goes over the mark you would need to try a different powder .. safe case capacity ..

that's how i would work thru this case issue

only been reloading for 5 yrs now so still learning ..

 

[Acer-m14]

watch it all .. or jump to 10:15 for lymans data for reloading ..

 

[Xae289]

They're both Hornady lol. But I don't consider the case as important to the whole scheme of things to be honest. I'm actually using formed 556 brass.

Actually, I just recently (last month) encountered a situation where cases turned out to be very important. So I bought some factory Hornady 300 grain XTP in .44 magnum. I shot the 2 boxes (40 rds). They felt pretty hot for factory ammo. Much more recoil than my handloads with the same bullet and very sticky extraction. But I figured Hornady isn't one to hotrod their ammo. I retained the brass for reloading. Since I also had 300 grain XTP bullets, I figured I would load up my own, which I know are softer shooting than Hornady's. So I loaded 40 of them in the newly once-fired Hornady cases.

Range day, I saw that my range had some factory .44 mag, so I bought a box. It was Hornady Leverevolution with 225 grain FTX bullets (plastic conical tip). I warmed up with my light bullet loads and all was good. Shot some of the Hornady Leverevolution and loved the accuracy I got from them. Finally, I shot my handloads with the 300 grain XTPs in the Hornady cases. Again, more recoil than I expected from my load and somewhat sticky extraction. After one box of 20, I decided not to shoot any more of those and went about my day.

I get home and because I liked the Leverrevolution's accuracy so much, I looked up load data for the FTX bullet in Hornady's manual. Lo and behold, they have 2 warnings talking about how FTX bullets should only be loaded in cases trimmed to a shorter length in order to ensure the COL isn't too long for the cylinder. When I saw that, something clicked in my head. I measured the Hornady brass that the factory 300 grain XTPs came loaded in. Sure enough, they were the same length as the Hornady Leverevolution ammo, and this was the same length as Hornady specifies as the trim-to length when loading FTX bullets (1.255"). Nominal .44 mag cases should be a minimum of 1.275" and max 1.285". The ones I didn't shoot had an OAL that was 2 hudredths too short. This caused my handloads to be way hotter than they should've been. Hornady didn't include any warning about this on either ammo type's box. That brass is all segregated with the condition written in big Sharpie on those boxes. The ammo that's still loaded will be pulled when I get around to it but is also in a well-marked box. The only reason I didn't dump all that brass is because I liked the FTX accuracy so much that I plan to buy some of those bullets to reload into those cases and only those. I was very lucky that I loaded a middle-of-the-road charge and hand-weighed each one very precisely. If I was loading a max charge, I could well have damaged my revolver or myself.

So I made a few mistakes in this situation:
Mistake 1) I didn't measure that new brass because it was factory brass and I trusted it.
Mistake 2) I had to adjust my dies more than I expected to and still didn't stop to measure.
Mistake 3) I didn't measure that batch's OAL in the new case, having just seated to the crimp groove, crimped, and checked in a chamber gauge.
Mistake 4) I went through 20 rounds of ammo that recoiled harder than I expected from a known load instead of stopping after I really felt it (6 rds max). It still didn't feel as harsh recoiling as the factory 300 grain load though, which is why I went through a full 20.

Lessons learned: 1) Don't trust brass. If something like this happened with factory brass, who knows what could happen with range pick-ups. Measure each piece of range pickup brass, and I'd say all of your factory brass too. At the very least, measure a sampling of your factory brass. 2) Trust your gut. If something feels off, it probably is. Your gut might not be smarter than your brain, but it's honest with you whereas your brain can rationalize doing dumb things.

 

[1075tech]

Capacity of cases can vary significantly between brands. Most seasoned reloaders will seperate brass by headstamp and weight.

Any time any component changes, even lot numbers of the same powder, it is advisable to work up a new load.

 

[repete]

i think his case bulge is cuz the bullet went past or into that internal rim ..
what was the org bullet weight 120gr and your stuffing a 147gn in it ummm

you best bet with this case is to deconstruct a live round ..

weigh the bullet

weigh the powder , see how far up the powder fills the case .. take notes ..

using your powder drop the same weight and if it goes over the mark you would need to try a different powder .. safe case capacity ..

that's how i would work thru this case issue

only been reloading for 5 yrs now so still learning ..

It's faster and easier to toss the case in the scrap brass bucket and go on. Whenever I toss a case I always crush it with a pair of pliers just to be on the safe side, you never know if someone at the scrap yard will try to reload an unsafe case.

GunSlinger, Thanks for that I had no idea they where doing that with .45's! Figures sooner or later they would.

 

[repete]

Actually, I just recently (last month) encountered a situation where cases turned out to be very important. So I bought some factory Hornady 300 grain XTP in .44 magnum. I shot the 2 boxes (40 rds). They felt pretty hot for factory ammo. Much more recoil than my handloads with the same bullet and very sticky extraction. But I figured Hornady isn't one to hotrod their ammo. I retained the brass for reloading. Since I also had 300 grain XTP bullets, I figured I would load up my own, which I know are softer shooting than Hornady's. So I loaded 40 of them in the newly once-fired Hornady cases.

Range day, I saw that my range had some factory .44 mag, so I bought a box. It was Hornady Leverevolution with 225 grain FTX bullets (plastic conical tip). I warmed up with my light bullet loads and all was good. Shot some of the Hornady Leverevolution and loved the accuracy I got from them. Finally, I shot my handloads with the 300 grain XTPs in the Hornady cases. Again, more recoil than I expected from my load and somewhat sticky extraction. After one box of 20, I decided not to shoot any more of those and went about my day.

I get home and because I liked the Leverrevolution's accuracy so much, I looked up load data for the FTX bullet in Hornady's manual. Lo and behold, they have 2 warnings talking about how FTX bullets should only be loaded in cases trimmed to a shorter length in order to ensure the COL isn't too long for the cylinder. When I saw that, something clicked in my head. I measured the Hornady brass that the factory 300 grain XTPs came loaded in. Sure enough, they were the same length as the Hornady Leverevolution ammo, and this was the same length as Hornady specifies as the trim-to length when loading FTX bullets (1.255"). Nominal .44 mag cases should be a minimum of 1.275" and max 1.285". The ones I didn't shoot had an OAL that was 2 hudredths too short. This caused my handloads to be way hotter than they should've been. Hornady didn't include any warning about this on either ammo type's box. That brass is all segregated with the condition written in big Sharpie on those boxes. The ammo that's still loaded will be pulled when I get around to it but is also in a well-marked box. The only reason I didn't dump all that brass is because I liked the FTX accuracy so much that I plan to buy some of those bullets to reload into those cases and only those. I was very lucky that I loaded a middle-of-the-road charge and hand-weighed each one very precisely. If I was loading a max charge, I could well have damaged my revolver or myself.

So I made a few mistakes in this situation:
Mistake 1) I didn't measure that new brass because it was factory brass and I trusted it.
Mistake 2) I had to adjust my dies more than I expected to and still didn't stop to measure.
Mistake 3) I didn't measure that batch's OAL in the new case, having just seated to the crimp groove, crimped, and checked in a chamber gauge.
Mistake 4) I went through 20 rounds of ammo that recoiled harder than I expected from a known load instead of stopping after I really felt it (6 rds max). It still didn't feel as harsh recoiling as the factory 300 grain load though, which is why I went through a full 20.

Lessons learned: 1) Don't trust brass. If something like this happened with factory brass, who knows what could happen with range pick-ups. Measure each piece of range pickup brass, and I'd say all of your factory brass too. At the very least, measure a sampling of your factory brass. 2) Trust your gut. If something feels off, it probably is. Your gut might not be smarter than your brain, but it's honest with you whereas your brain can rationalize doing dumb things.

In a way mistake #2 is the most important, sure you wouldn't have had a mistake without #1 but setting that aside for a moment.
When ever you have to make a change to your die settings it's an obvious indicator that something has changed!
I had a .44sp case get mixed up and loaded with .44mag, the obvious tip off was the bullet wasn't set down into the canalure.(sp)
Out of curiosity I fired it in a Ruger SBH(.44mag) without any problems, where problems would've cropped up is if I had've adjusted to dies to set the bullet at the "correct" depth thereby compressing the powder and increase WAY over .44mag pressures in a .44sp case! Short cases or setting bullets long is no problem as long as they don't jam the cylinder, setting short on the other hand can make you one handed!

 

[repete]

Capacity of cases can vary significantly between brands. Most seasoned reloaders will seperate brass by headstamp and weight.

Any time any component changes, even lot numbers of the same powder, it is advisable to work up a new load.

Very true, but I'll be 100% honest here. With 9mm and .45acp I don't do that, I sort out rejects and then dump the good ones in to hopper and start cranking the handle. My 9's and 45 are loaded middle of the road power wise so I don't worry about case variations that much. Sometimes I can hear a bit difference in sound when plinking. On .44 Mag/.357 and other 'hi-pressure' rounds I treat them with more respect. YMMV

 

[meketrefe]

watch it all .. or jump to 10:15 for lymans data for reloading ..

The are full of shit.
Why not call them out on the multiple errors you find in the manual? 6.8 is a good example.
Possibly because they do not test all the rounds they document and will put them on the spot on video.
My advice is not to waste money in useless expensive manuals. Lymans writers suck like several others.
Perhaps borrow or buy an old manual with good fundamentals for beginners and the after that refer
to powder manufacturer, bullet manufacturer and other current and reputable sources of data and get good at
reloading and even ballistics software like quickload.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Actually, I just recently (last month) encountered a situation where cases turned out to be very important. So I bought some factory Hornady 300 grain XTP in .44 magnum. I shot the 2 boxes (40 rds). They felt pretty hot for factory ammo. Much more recoil than my handloads with the same bullet and very sticky extraction. But I figured Hornady isn't one to hotrod their ammo. I retained the brass for reloading. Since I also had 300 grain XTP bullets, I figured I would load up my own, which I know are softer shooting than Hornady's. So I loaded 40 of them in the newly once-fired Hornady cases.

Range day, I saw that my range had some factory .44 mag, so I bought a box. It was Hornady Leverevolution with 225 grain FTX bullets (plastic conical tip). I warmed up with my light bullet loads and all was good. Shot some of the Hornady Leverevolution and loved the accuracy I got from them. Finally, I shot my handloads with the 300 grain XTPs in the Hornady cases. Again, more recoil than I expected from my load and somewhat sticky extraction. After one box of 20, I decided not to shoot any more of those and went about my day.

I get home and because I liked the Leverrevolution's accuracy so much, I looked up load data for the FTX bullet in Hornady's manual. Lo and behold, they have 2 warnings talking about how FTX bullets should only be loaded in cases trimmed to a shorter length in order to ensure the COL isn't too long for the cylinder. When I saw that, something clicked in my head. I measured the Hornady brass that the factory 300 grain XTPs came loaded in. Sure enough, they were the same length as the Hornady Leverevolution ammo, and this was the same length as Hornady specifies as the trim-to length when loading FTX bullets (1.255"). Nominal .44 mag cases should be a minimum of 1.275" and max 1.285". The ones I didn't shoot had an OAL that was 2 hudredths too short. This caused my handloads to be way hotter than they should've been. Hornady didn't include any warning about this on either ammo type's box. That brass is all segregated with the condition written in big Sharpie on those boxes. The ammo that's still loaded will be pulled when I get around to it but is also in a well-marked box. The only reason I didn't dump all that brass is because I liked the FTX accuracy so much that I plan to buy some of those bullets to reload into those cases and only those. I was very lucky that I loaded a middle-of-the-road charge and hand-weighed each one very precisely. If I was loading a max charge, I could well have damaged my revolver or myself.

So I made a few mistakes in this situation:
Mistake 1) I didn't measure that new brass because it was factory brass and I trusted it.
Mistake 2) I had to adjust my dies more than I expected to and still didn't stop to measure.
Mistake 3) I didn't measure that batch's OAL in the new case, having just seated to the crimp groove, crimped, and checked in a chamber gauge.
Mistake 4) I went through 20 rounds of ammo that recoiled harder than I expected from a known load instead of stopping after I really felt it (6 rds max). It still didn't feel as harsh recoiling as the factory 300 grain load though, which is why I went through a full 20.

Lessons learned: 1) Don't trust brass. If something like this happened with factory brass, who knows what could happen with range pick-ups. Measure each piece of range pickup brass, and I'd say all of your factory brass too. At the very least, measure a sampling of your factory brass. 2) Trust your gut. If something feels off, it probably is. Your gut might not be smarter than your brain, but it's honest with you whereas your brain can rationalize doing dumb things.

It's good that you found that before it did damage. But when I was talking about casings I was talking more about brand. Indeed you should be measuring cases especially when they are ones that tend to stretch like magnum and rifle brass. Range brass as well although I'm with @repete on the 9 and 45s where I just kinda reload them on the middle tier load. If you want to be extra safe you could just make a day of going through all of your brass and trimming it to where it needs to be. Even if you know it works fine it's nice to have everything uniform. Trimming is a pain but it's better than having damaged hardware.