Iowa man sentenced to 16 years for setting LGBTQ flag on fire

[LMS]

I'm OK with an objective, binary decision on the part of the jury. At no point does emotion get involved.

Holy crap are you serious - claiming that with juries that no emotion is involved? Totally false. They are largely untrained in the facts of the law so in that respect are going more by gut than facts, and they are emotionally manipulated by the prosecution and defense.

 

[LMS]

Leniency is actually a huge problem in the court systems today and is a big reason why shit is the way it is. If you give a reduced sentence on the arbitrary feelings of a judge the person may not learn the lesson.

Other than the word arbitrary, I would agree that this is a legit point for sure. But I think there are also times when it is a positive thing.

 

[spat]

Even if our government wasn't dysfunctional, there's no way the written law could keep up with the massively large set of possible facts that could come into play.

Bullshit. It can and it should and we should demand nothing less.

They don't have to account for every possible detail, they just need to categorize details into groups that affect the sentence.

When the jury is done determining the facts the sentence should be clear and unambiguous.

Speaking as a engineer who has been practicing the trade for over 40 years, this statement is utter bullshit.

You think it's bullshit ?

I don't know what field you work in, but I know you rely on well documented specifications, and you can't possibly talk to engineers from every vendor you deal with.

When you add some bolts to your design, you rely on them being built to standard sizes and tolerances and made of materials with standard properties. You do not have to call up the engineers at the bolt company to ask them.

The internet is literally possible because all the specifications for the most complex system ever designed by man are written out precisely so that engineers from hundreds of separate companies can design equipment that interoperates in highly complex ways.

 

[GOPerfect]

I really hate "Hate crimes". More made up Libtard shit.

He stole another persons property and he destroyed it. That is what he should be charged with.

He committed a crime and should feel the pain of his crime(s).

The word excessive does not fit this conviction/crime at all.

 

[Darth]

Holy crap are you serious - claiming that with juries that no emotion is involved? Totally false. They are largely untrained in the facts of the law so in that respect are going more by gut than facts, and they are emotionally manipulated by the prosecution and defense.

Hence the panel of 12 and not whim of one.

Just like peer review.

 

[LMS]

Hence the panel of 12 and not whim of one.

Just like peer review.

A panel of 12 that only needs one with a "whim" to sour the whole thing.

 

[LMS]

When you add some bolts to your design, you rely on them being built to standard sizes and tolerances and made of materials with standard properties. You do not have to call up the engineers at the bolt company to ask them.

Of course. But that is a far cry from your original statement:

As a society we are capable of incredible degrees of precision in complex engineering documents that allow complex equipment manufactured by completely different companies to interoperate without any of the engineers in either company speaking with other.

I don't know what field you work in, but I know you rely on well documented specifications, and you can't possibly talk to engineers from every vendor you deal with.

Software.

We often talk to the tech folks working for vendors we deal with to clear up things that are not clear. It's SOP, not an exception.

Certainly we rely on well documented specs - but no matter how well specced an interface is, multiple people will interpret it different ways. It's not until it's used in anger a couple times before it fully gets fleshed out. As a rule, the projects that succeed the best are marked by over-communication. One high profile one we just finished had the teams travelling across the country to meet face to face every three weeks. It came in ahead of schedule and as a result the team earned a 7 figure bonus for the company, and both CEOs referred to the communication style as the gold standard for projects moving forward.

 

[Darth]

A panel of 12 that only needs one with a "whim" to sour the whole thing.

*in favor of the innocent.

I'd rather 100 guilty people go free than one innocent one get charged.

 

[Mosinitis]

He shouldn't be charged with anything. He should compensate for the cost of the flag.

 

[spat]

He shouldn't be charged with anything. He should compensate for the cost of the flag.

He stole the flag.

That much is a real crime.

 

[spat]

Of course. But that is a far cry from your original statement:







Software.

We often talk to the tech folks working for vendors we deal with to clear up things that are not clear. It's SOP, not an exception.

Certainly we rely on well documented specs - but no matter how well specced an interface is, multiple people will interpret it different ways. It's not until it's used in anger a couple times before it fully gets fleshed out. As a rule, the projects that succeed the best are marked by over-communication. One high profile one we just finished had the teams travelling across the country to meet face to face every three weeks. It came in ahead of schedule and as a result the team earned a 7 figure bonus for the company, and both CEOs referred to the communication style as the gold standard for projects moving forward.

You worked with one vendor for that project developing something new.

You relied on products from dozens of other software and hardware vendors behaving as documented.

But before your software was even designed there are millions of critical decisions that were made. Bytes are 8 bits, IP addresses are 4 octets. When you ran into problems you needed to resolve, there were things you just assume will work. If a TCP connection won't establish it is not the fault of the TCP protocol itself.

I am not saying that the law needs to be delivered by the legislature perfect in every way first time. I am saying that we should demand that it is refined by them until it is.

I am also saying that a law that leaves sentencing up to subjective judgements of a judge or jury is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Mosinitis]

He stole the flag.

That much is a real crime.

It's too petty to be considered a crime. Criminal violation (legal term) is not a crime. It ranks below misdemeanor.

 

[LMS]

You worked with one vendor for that project developing something new.

You relied on products from dozens of other software and hardware vendors behaving as documented.

But before your software was even designed there are millions of critical decisions that were made. Bytes are 8 bits, IP addresses are 4 octets. When you ran into problems you needed to resolve, there were things you just assume will work. If a TCP connection won't establish it is not the fault of the TCP protocol itself.

I guess I missed you in the project meetings.... Clearly you know so much about how it went.

You're really stretching here man. But, I know you'll want the last word, so please respond to this, then we can be done.

 

[Shadow2]

The hate crime slope has been slipped. Hating who ever and what ever you want is a god given right. The theft of the flag is obviously illegal, damaging the stolen property also illegal. Arson I don't think so, burning flags in the street is covered under freedom of speech. bude is guilty of being a douche bag but seems like allot of trumped up BS charges.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Arson I don't think so, burning fags in the street is covered under freedom of speech.

Freudien slip?

 

[Shadow2]

Freudien slip?

LMAO! OOOPS

 

[spat]

I guess I missed you in the project meetings.... Clearly you know so much about how it went.

You're really stretching here man. But, I know you'll want the last word, so please respond to this, then we can be done.

So, which part was I wrong about ?

I wasn't at any of your specific meetings, but I have worked on projects like that, and they all have certain things in common.

You focus on the few details that need to be hashed out, and most in the room are oblivious to the *millions* of standards that have to be followed for the project to work. And they can get away with it be because those standards are all implicitly agreed upon.

 

[technicalgadget]

I hate liberals, is it a fucking hate crime?

 

[GOPerfect]

I hate liberals, is it a fucking hate crime?

Nope!

I hate so many more than just Libtards. All good!