Is a binary trigger legal in NY ?

[Robin]

All firearms are machines, and guns, therefore machine-guns. Thats the progressive primer for gun confiscation.
Robin

 

[cgrutt]

What is your definition of "continuous pull"?

If you pull the trigger and DO NOT RELEASE it and more than one round fires I would call it a machinegun. That is not the case here.

As would I. I personally don't believe a binary trigger meets the definition of a Machine Gun, or a Rifle, or a Firearm or Semiautomatic for that matter. It doesn't matter what I believe though, all that really matters is what a DA might do. Based on PL265, my personal opinion is it wouldn't take a DA a huge leap to try to convince a jury it is a machine gun. "So ladies and gentleman of the jury, with only 5 continuous pulls of the trigger, this rifle completely discharged the maximum capacity of rounds permitted by law..." I'm done arguing, lol...

 

[Marine Cpl]

As would I. I personally don't believe a binary trigger meets the definition of a Machine Gun, or a Rifle, or a Firearm or Semiautomatic for that matter. It doesn't matter what I believe though, all that really matters is what a DA might do. Based on PL265, my personal opinion is it wouldn't take a DA a huge leap to try to convince a jury it is a machine gun. "So ladies and gentleman of the jury, with only 5 continuous pulls of the trigger, this rifle completely discharged the maximum capacity of rounds permitted by law..." I'm done arguing, lol...

It's still a rifle based on the definition of a rifle. A rifle can be a machine gun too. A pistol can be a machine gun too.

 

[cgrutt]

It's still a rifle based on the definition of a rifle. A rifle can be a machine gun too. A pistol can be a machine gun too.

Yeah, but is it?

"Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.

 

[Marine Cpl]

What is your definition of "continuous pull"?

If you pull the trigger and DO NOT RELEASE it and more than one round fires I would call it a machinegun. That is not the case here.

But you have to release it unless it was held back permanently and then it wouldn't be a binary trigger.

At the end of it all, one continuous pull will eventually discharge 2 rounds after you release the trigger. It's a play with words and the jury will buy it.

That's like saying a machine gun isn't a machine gun if you only load one round.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yeah, but is it?

"Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.

I stand corrected.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Is pulling the trigger the same as releasing it? That's all you have to know. I don't know why that is so difficult. Are we now saying that a trigger reset is the same as pulling it? Anyway, yes in places like NY and CA where most of the populous is retarded it would be easy to convince them a binary trigger makes a rifle a machine gun.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Is pulling the trigger the same as releasing it? That's all you have to know. I don't know why that is so difficult. Are we now saying that a trigger reset is the same as pulling it? Anyway, yes in places like NY and CA where most of the populous is retarded it would be easy to convince them a binary trigger makes a rifle a machine gun.

That's what we are trying to say.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

That's what we are trying to say.

So were you saying that with a binary trigger it does or doesn't meet the NY definition of a rifle? Because with the current definition it still does.

"Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.

 

[freddy]

So were you saying that with a binary trigger it does or doesn't meet the NY definition of a machine gun? Because with the current definition it still does.

"Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.

You mean rifle? Not machine gun?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Ladies and gentleman of the jury. Officer Cgrutt has been employed by the Fuac Police Department for 31 years. For the last 28 years he has been the Unit Armorer. He is qualified to give an expert opinion on firearm related topics.

We are going to watch this video of Officer Cgrutt firing this weapon in the Crime Ballistics Range.

Officer Cgrutt gives one continuous pull for about a second and 2 shots are expended.

Defendant. Yeah but he released the trigger! He wasn't supposed to release the trigger!

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

You mean rifle? Not machine gun?

Yeah I changed it.

 

[cgrutt]

Too funny.

 

[Marine Cpl]

So were you saying that with a binary trigger it does or doesn't meet the NY definition of a machine gun? Because with the current definition it still does.

"Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.

It doesn't for someone who knows what they are talking about. It does for someone who doesn't know how firearms work. And the judge and jury will NOT know how firearms work and you will not be able to show them how they work. They aren't going to let you fire it to show them. It will all go based on the report from the arresting agency that test fired the weapon.

 

[cgrutt]

The problem is the definition falls apart on the second pull. That's all an attorney has to tell the jury. "Look I pulled the trigger twice and 3 (or 4 bullets) were discharged, when the law requires that only 2 bullets will be discharged from each single pull of the trigger pulled twice." It's ambiguous at best. As is most of the unSAFE act...

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

It doesn't for someone who knows what they are talking about. It does for someone who doesn't know how firearms work. And the judge and jury will NOT know how firearms work and you will not be able to show them how they work. They aren't going to let you fire it to show them. It will all go based on the report from the arresting agency that test fired the weapon.

I agree. But eh. I don't have to worry about that here at least. For now.

 

[BDinPutnam]

The problem is the definition falls apart on the second pull. That's all an attorney has to tell the jury. "Look I pulled the trigger twice and 3 (or 4 bullets) were discharged, when the law requires that only 2 bullets will be discharged from each single pull of the trigger pulled twice." It's ambiguous at best. As is most of the unSAFE act...

Keyword being "twice".

Agree with all of the foregoing. This state is retarded. I rest my case.

 

[cgrutt]

Suggest if you really want one you should convince Franklin Armory to ship one to you.

Not for civilian sales in CA, DC, IA, NJ, NY, or WA

Franklin Armory® BFSIII™ AR-C1

LOL

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yep. They won't ship to you so you can count on them not helping you either if their expert opinion is called upon. Things like this aren't worth it anyway since you really gain nothing. Especially with a 10 round magazine.

You can shoot fast enough as fast as you can pull the trigger if you ever need to use your weapon for suppression.

 

[Joe Blow]

Suggest if you really want one you should convince Franklin Armory to ship one to you.

There are vendors that will ship these into NY.
As alluded to earlier, are they worth it? I don't see the point.
For the cost, I've better things to do with my firearms...