John McAfee thinks the grid is going down

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I thought this was really interesting to hear a very experienced IT security guy weigh in on the grids vulnerability.

Might We Soon Learn Nikola Teslas Secrets Or Is It Already Too Late?

 

[Frankly]

Even a solar flare could bring things down. It's insane we don't have a war time like program to shield all the essentials and also our own chip manufacturing capabilities on American soil.

We ought to be able to make anything from scratch right here in the USA.

 

[GOPerfect]

I prepare for the day the Grid fails. It is not if the Grid fails, it is when the Grid fails. It will fail!

It will fail within our lifetime. The Grid is the biggest threat to National Security. The biggest!

 

[Jmac00]

I DON'T CARE! Im ready and if Im at home can go a minimum of 7 days without power, probably longer if I conserve. If Im at my BOL, I can last indefinitely as it's already off grid and running on solar power and batteries. If forced to, I could probably winter over at my BOL....but that would be an extreme situation

 

[GOPerfect]

If the Grid fails, be prepared for a very, very, long time of no electricity. Did I say a very long time. If it goes down, it will take years to fully repair!

Keep your powder dry!

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I prepare for the day the Grid fails. It is not if the Grid fails, it is when the Grid fails. It will fail!

It will fail within our lifetime. The Grid is the biggest threat to National Security. The biggest!

This is my main worry. There are so many ways the grid can go down and 97% of the population has no clue how dangerous it is and what would happen.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is my main worry. There are so many ways the grid can go down and 97% of the population has no clue how dangerous it is and what would happen.

As much as I would like to think that I am prepared, I, like the majority of Americans, am screwed. We take EVERYTHING for granted. We do not understand the ramifications of this. No Electricity, no Natural Gas, no Gasoline. No going to the corner store to get a gallon of milk.

Everything we know will be gone.........

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

As much as I would like to think that I am prepared, I, like the majority of Americans, am screwed. We take EVERYTHING for granted. We do not understand the ramifications of this. No Electricity, no Natural Gas, no Gasoline. No going to the corner store to get a gallon of milk.

Everything we know will be gone.........

I tried explaining this to my friend who said "what's the big deal if everyone loses power" he wasn't worried and said everything important has back up generators.

I tried to explain the following.

Our entire logistical system runs on the internet
No internet, no new orders, no trucks dispatched
Gas stations, (even the ones with generators to power the pumps) will stop getting resupplied
Back up generators will eventually run out of fuel
Stores will run out of supplies
All banking immediately stops, no direct deposit, no atm withdrawals
Medical supplies run out
Food supplies run out
No utilities, run out of water, electric, no toilets, propane, natural gas etc...
No heating, no AC
People can no longer go to work
Etc, and that is just the start! That has nothing with panicked people, violent people etc...

It still didn't quite sink in with my friend. I think he realized it's more severe than he realized but he still didnt grasp the severity of the situation. And he's not an idiot but a pretty smart guy.

So I can only imagine that in my head I'm thinking 97% of society has NO IDEA of this threat, and of those 3% who do, maybe only 2% actually prep for it and of those 2% very few are adequately prepared for all that would happen next.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No refineries. No gas. No gas. No truck deliveries. No truck deliveries, no food. No food, panick. Panick, crime. Crime, deaths. Deaths, martial law. Martial law, resistance. Resistance, gun confiscation.

It's that simple.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

No refineries. No gas. No gas. No truck deliveries. No truck deliveries, no food. No food, panick. Panick, crime. Crime, deaths. Deaths, martial law. Martial law, resistance. Resistance, gun confiscation.

It's that simple.

You forgot complete economic meltdown worst depression ever and massive population loss/die off from lack of resources

 

[GOPerfect]

All the "extras" in life is not the worst thing. We will manage to get by on what nature provides us. Hunting, fishing, gathering and community farming. Sure, it will be tough, but people will get by. Hard work for sure.

The biggest worry is the other people around you; the gangs and the hordes of evil that live among us. The Religious Zealots pushing their brand on everyone they can. The weak minded who will follow these freaks.

The gangs, think they are bad now in the inner cities? Wait until they come to the burbs where the nice things in life are. They will gather at food depots and take them over. It will be worse than any war zone some of us have known!

 

[Jmac00]

what is the biggest problem???

EVERYONE, simply everyone is ADDICTED to electricity, THATS the problem

 

[GOPerfect]

what is the biggest problem???

EVERYONE, simply everyone is ADDICTED to electricity, THATS the problem

Not sure if you are serious, but either way, you are 100% correct! All of us take all that we have for granted!

 

[Defilade]

No refineries. No gas. No gas. No truck deliveries. No truck deliveries, no food. No food, panick. Panick, crime. Crime, deaths. Deaths, martial law. Martial law, resistance. Resistance, gun confiscation.

It's that simple.

Yeah, There's a total waste of resources when the Grid goes down. Gun Confiscation!

 

[Deplorable Me]

Survival is 99% attitude.
Learn to work with what you have.
Accept that there will be losses and hardship.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I guess we will find out what the true meaning of intelligence is.
a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

All the "extras" in life is not the worst thing. We will manage to get by on what nature provides us. Hunting, fishing, gathering and community farming. Sure, it will be tough, but people will get by. Hard work for sure.

The biggest worry is the other people around you; the gangs and the hordes of evil that live among us. The Religious Zealots pushing their brand on everyone they can. The weak minded who will follow these freaks.

The gangs, think they are bad now in the inner cities? Wait until they come to the burbs where the nice things in life are. They will gather at food depots and take them over. It will be worse than any war zone some of us have known!

Just out of curiosity, not asking you to say anything you shouldn't publicly state for opsec, but does law enforcement ever discuss these types of scenarios and how to handle it? Do your fellow officers worry about these things?

 

[Defilade]

^^^ If it's SHTF they aren't going to be doing much of anything except taking care of their own families. Going to work won't be happening.

 

[MoMan]

^^^ If it's SHTF they aren't going to be doing much of anything except taking care of their own families. Going to work won't be happening.

This right here!! I've made quite a few Friends in my short time down here, many are of the LE Community due to my working at the LGS. I've shot at the range with these guys, and hung out with some of them socially. EVERY ONE of them echoed the same sentiment: "if/wnem the SHTF, they are heading home to take care of their Families. Their main responsibility is to protect their own 1st". They're not talking about a small "social uprising" (in their words: "we know how to put that shit down, here"!!), but a MAJOR event or disaster and they are heading home.

 

[Gunright]

All the "extras" in life is not the worst thing. We will manage to get by on what nature provides us. Hunting, fishing, gathering and community farming. Sure, it will be tough, but people will get by. Hard work for sure.

The biggest worry is the other people around you; the gangs and the hordes of evil that live among us. The Religious Zealots pushing their brand on everyone they can. The weak minded who will follow these freaks.

The gangs, think they are bad now in the inner cities? Wait until they come to the burbs where the nice things in life are. They will gather at food depots and take them over. It will be worse than any war zone some of us have known!

I think you are under estimating the problem. No distribution = no medical supplies. ALL those like type I diabetics, those needing oxygen, those needing life sustaining medicines will die off quickly. Those in nursing homes and hospitals, etc.

If you haven't read it, 'one second after' gives a pretty good outline of what will happen, and at that a somewhat optimistic view because (for the most part) their town sticks together.

 

[GOPerfect]

I think you are under estimating the problem. No distribution = no medical supplies. ALL those like type I diabetics, those needing oxygen, those needing life sustaining medicines will die off quickly. Those in nursing homes and hospitals, etc.

If you haven't read it, 'one second after' gives a pretty good outline of what will happen, and at that a somewhat optimistic view because (for the most part) their town sticks together.

I said it a bit earlier in this thread, this is all I prep for. Everything I do is in regards to the grid crashing. In saying that, I don't think I have much of a clue what to expect.

As for One Second After, I have read all three books in the series. Cannot say enough good about this book series.

 

[FrankenCub]

Even a solar flare could bring things down. It's insane we don't have a war time like program to shield all the essentials and also our own chip manufacturing capabilities on American soil.

We ought to be able to make anything from scratch right here in the USA.

This right here is our biggest problem. Why the hell aren't we making our own replacement parts!!! It's not like we don't have the engineering or materials, or have the factories where it can be done, we need this to be done here. This relying on any foreign nation for such a need right now part is bull shit.

 

[nfernaays]

This right here is our biggest problem. Why the hell aren't we making our own replacement parts!!! It's not like we don't have the engineering or materials, or have the factories where it can be done, we need this to be done here. This relying on any foreign nation for such a need right now part is bull shit.

Simple answer is cost cost cost, utilities need to make money, they do that by charging customers and buying replacements, parts infrastructure at the lowest possible price. Basic capitalism, problem is that there is no incentive for utilities to prepare for a grid down situation. To be honest, its hard enough for them to keep the lights on now as it is.

 

[GOPerfect]

Simple answer is cost cost cost, utilities need to make money, they do that by charging customers and buying replacements, parts infrastructure at the lowest possible price. Basic capitalism, problem is that there is no incentive for utilities to prepare for a grid down situation. To be honest, its hard enough for them to keep the lights on now as it is.

Just curious, have you ever researched the Power Grid? Do you understand the workings of it? Do you understand what the threat to our Power Grid is?

 

[nfernaays]

Just curious, have you ever researched the Power Grid? Do you understand the workings of it? Do you understand what the threat to our Power Grid is?

Very condescending statement, of course i know what the power grid is and what the effects would be. There are several previous post in similar threads were i expound on the issue. I work in the industry. But to say they should do this and should do that is unrealistic. The grid has been around for nearly 100 years, keeping that infrastructure at top notch is not possible. In order for utilities to make money they need to buy overseas. And having essential equipment on hand is not realistic . For example Large power transformers, like you see at any substation or large power generation station (Lewiston power station has 12 of them) can take up to a year to build and deliver and cost between 800,000 to well over a million dollars.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Just curious, have you ever researched the Power Grid? Do you understand the workings of it? Do you understand what the threat to our Power Grid is?

The most I've ever learned about the grid is reading koppels "lights out", watching occasional YouTube videos on the subject and reading internet stories. I don't Think I know much but always trying to learn more.

 

[GOPerfect]

Very condescending statement, of course i know what the power grid is and what the effects would be. There are several previous post in similar threads were i expound on the issue. I work in the industry. But to say they should do this and should do that is unrealistic. The grid has been around for nearly 100 years, keeping that infrastructure at top notch is not possible. In order for utilities to make money they need to buy overseas. And having essential equipment on hand is not realistic . For example Large power transformers, like you see at any substation or large power generation station (Lewiston power station has 12 of them) can take up to a year to build and deliver and cost between 800,000 to well over a million dollars.

Sorry, condescending was not my intention. Many talk about the Grid and I have noticed they know very little of it. As for keeping the entire system up to date and safe I think is very possible. We should have a top notch electrical system. Think of the cost when it finally fails, and it will fail. Like I stated earlier, it is not if, it is when the entire system crashed and leaves us in the dark. You talk about the large transformers taking a year to build and deliver; while I agree and understand the costs of building and shipping, I still find it crazy that: One, we buy them from China and Two, we have only 7 stand buy units in the US. Much of the main wiring that is all across the US fails on a regular basis. The wiring is old and not really usable. The most popular time to upgrade any parts of the system is when they fail or close to it.

Again, I was not trying to insult. Sometimes typing a question or a thought comes off sounding rude!

 

[nfernaays]

Sorry, condescending was not my intention. Many talk about the Grid and I have noticed they know very little of it. As for keeping the entire system up to date and safe I think is very possible. We should have a top notch electrical system. Think of the cost when it finally fails, and it will fail. Like I stated earlier, it is not if, it is when the entire system crashed and leaves us in the dark. You talk about the large transformers taking a year to build and deliver; while I agree and understand the costs of building and shipping, I still find it crazy that: One, we buy them from China and Two, we have only 7 stand buy units in the US. Much of the main wiring that is all across the US fails on a regular basis. The wiring is old and not really usable. The most popular time to upgrade any parts of the system is when they fail or close to it.

Again, I was not trying to insult. Sometimes typing a question or a thought comes off sounding rude!

No worries GoPerfect, I think we are actually in agreement with the issue, it is a problem and a potential life threatening game changer to the country. For utilities to stay economically viable they unfortunately have to maintain a band-aid type approach to the grid. Over the last few years the majority of major project undertaken by utilities are green initiatives because the government have placed incentives to improving that area. Honestly that money should have gone toward grid hardening. Also, there are a few companies that make large power transformers state side but really that does little to help the lead time for such capital expenses. These things take forever to build and even longer to test before they are energized. Lets keep this feed going, we got a good rap now

 

[GOPerfect]

For those unaware, the Grid is broken up into three separate and NOT equal parts. Western Interconnection (Which is in the worst shape), The Eastern Interconnection and the Texas Interconnection. The Texas Grid is the most secure and failure resistant. Why does Texas have their own? Because they want no federal intervention. The Feds have Zero to do with their Grid and it is Powerful and seemingly safe. The Federal Government has no authority there. They are not worried about planting bushes and grass near their stations. Texas is always upgrading their systems, always adding more layers of security;both personal and cyber. The Texas Interconnection is maintained as a separate grid for political, rather than technical reasons.

The Texas system, as of date, is as hardened as possible. The Western and the Eastern are not. But they do look pretty.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Hopefully this is another helpful reference for people just learning about the grid and what it actually is.

Continental U.S. power transmission grid - Wikipedia