Judge blocks Cali's High Cap Magazine Ban

[Mr. terzmo]

what is NY fighting the federal government for ?

 

[GOPerfect]

what is NY fighting the federal government for ?

Sorry, should have been a bit more specific...

125ish lawsuits when you include cases in Federal Courts and NY Courts.

 

[Chuck D]

The 9th Circuit along with the 2nd Circuit are bought and paid for and SCOTUS refuses to hear a case.

125 lawsuits of which the gun grabbers will no doubt run out the clock by using YOUR tax dollars to fight against you.

 

[JosERW]

This is great news; not just for the West Coast. This can possibly be a turn around for other laws as well. New York residents can and will use this as guide to fight our horrible laws.

We just need an organization or a group of people in NY that are actually Pro-2A.

How? We lost already. It's done as far as I know. We got screwed by corrupt judges. Our ONLY hope is SCOTUS and Kennedy is a POS.

 

[JosERW]

Temporary victory.

His ruling will be overturned and they'll return back to a 10 round limit by the end of the year.

Since 1994, firearms of all designs were being offered in capacity restricted States with 10 round magazines. Like it or not, 10 round magazines are "an accepted industry standard" and that will be the basis for upholding any ban.

The day an AR15, a Glock, M&P, Sig, Ruger, or CZ shipped from the factory with a 10 round only magazine was the day we we're stuck with 10 round only magazines.

Now....if we're talking about compensation for banned items that have to be turned in, enjoy your waiting for what will be most likely a "bad check" from the State of California worth just about nothing.

Except Heller makes these laws unconstitutional. Standard capacity magazines are in common use. Case closed. The law is on our side.

 

[JosERW]

Sorry, should have been a bit more specific...

125ish lawsuits when you include cases in Federal Courts and NY Courts.

What cases? We lost at the federal level. That's it. SCOTUS is our only hope I thought and now it looks like they won't take Kolbe.

 

[GOPerfect]

What cases? We lost at the federal level. That's it. SCOTUS is our only hope I thought and now it looks like they won't take Kolbe.

When I get to computer, I will post them.

There are a few that have to do with due process a few in regards to personal property and the such. Not all are directly related to the 2A, some use the lose of other rights to get at the safe act.

 

[GOPerfect]

How? We lost already. It's done as far as I know. We got screwed by corrupt judges. Our ONLY hope is SCOTUS and Kennedy is a POS.

What did we lose? You keep saying that, two cases in NY lost, they were specific cases. So, because these two were lost, nothing else can be filed?

 

[fartgamer]

Temporary victory.

His ruling will be overturned and they'll return back to a 10 round limit by the end of the year.

Since 1994, firearms of all designs were being offered in capacity restricted States with 10 round magazines. Like it or not, 10 round magazines are "an accepted industry standard" and that will be the basis for upholding any ban.

The day an AR15, a Glock, M&P, Sig, Ruger, or CZ shipped from the factory with a 10 round only magazine was the day we we're stuck with 10 round only magazines.

Now....if we're talking about compensation for banned items that have to be turned in, enjoy your waiting for what will be most likely a "bad check" from the State of California worth just about nothing.

The 9th will overturn this.

 

[Chuck D]

Except Heller makes these laws unconstitutional. Standard capacity magazines are in common use. Case closed. The law is on our side.

...and where in this country has a magazine capacity restriction law from standard capacity to 10 rounds capacity been overturned ?

Certainly not in NY, California, Mass, NJ, Hawaii, Illinois (Cook County) , or Colorado.

When challenged at the Circuit level they're upheld because 10 rounds is also an industry standard as of 1994.

Ever notice how manufacturers don't weigh I to this fray? It's because they want to sell product and whether the pistol comes with a 10 or 17 round magazine matters not to them because they offer the pistol with both. It's an industry standard to do so. Next time you see a sales rep, ask them, they'll tell you flat out.

All Heller does is say you can't ban handguns because they are in common use for defense. It says NOTHING about regulating firearms, restricting capacity, or where you can carry them concealed which is why we have this patchwork quilt of regulations ties to firearms ownership and use.

 

[Chuck D]

The 9th will overturn this.

In a NY minute and SCOTUS will deny CERT .

 

[spat]

...and where in this country has a magazine capacity restriction law from standard capacity to 10 rounds capacity been overturned ?

Certainly not in NY, California, Mass, NJ, Hawaii, Illinois (Cook County) , or Colorado.

When challenged at the Circuit level they're upheld because 10 rounds is also an industry standard as of 1994.

Ever notice how manufacturers don't weigh I to this fray? It's because they want to sell product and whether the pistol comes with a 10 or 17 round magazine matters not to them because they offer the pistol with both. It's an industry standard to do so. Next time you see a sales rep, ask them, they'll tell you flat out.

All Heller does is say you can't ban handguns because they are in common use for defense. It says NOTHING about regulating firearms, restricting capacity, or where you can carry them concealed which is why we have this patchwork quilt of regulations ties to firearms ownership and use.

Sure, it's *an* industry standard, but so is .22lr that doesn't mean that a state can ban everything but .22lr.

 

[Chuck D]

Sure, it's *an* industry standard, but so is .22lr that doesn't mean that a state can ban everything but .22lr.

Apples and oranges and with all due respect you know it.

At least I got someone to honestly admit 10 round magazines are now "industry standards." That's a BIG admission for those who constantly and consistently throw out the Heller decision as the end all to be all pro gun remedy.

A legal decision is only as good as the Court's willingness to adhere to it. So far Heller is a bust in NY.

The biggest problem with pro-gun people is their inability and unwillingness to admit that the strategy they use is a losing one. We make all the right arguments, we have "the law" on our side, we are law abiding citizens, yet we continue to lose case after case, right after right until there's nothing left. Our enemies ignore the law....and that's the only remedy we have left. To constantly refer to Heller is a waste of time and effort.

As far as caliber restrictions go, don't think it hasn't been considered. Not relevant to this conversation but food for thought just the same, ask the Brits about being limited to handgun calibers no larger than 22 rimfire and ask the Australians about being limited to a bullet diameter of .357 or smaller.

 

[spat]

Apples and oranges and with all due respect you know it.

At least I got someone to honestly admit 10 round magazines are now "industry standards." That's a BIG admission for those who constantly and consistently throw out the Heller decision as the end all to be all pro gun remedy.

A legal decision is only as good as the Court's willingness to adhere to it. So far Heller is a bust in NY.

The biggest problem with pro-gun people is their inability and unwillingness to admit that the strategy they use is a losing one. We make all the right arguments, we have "the law" on our side, we are law abiding citizens, yet we continue to lose case after case, right after right until there's nothing left. Our enemies ignore the law....and that's the only remedy we have left. To constantly refer to Heller is a waste of time and effort.

As far as caliber restrictions go, don't think it hasn't been considered. Not relevant to this conversation but food for thought just the same, ask the Brits about being limited to handgun calibers no larger than 22 rimfire and ask the Australians about being limited to a bullet diameter of .357 or smaller.

So, you believe legal remedies have failed ?

 

[Chuck D]

So, you believe legal remedies have failed ?

Nice troll....

If you can show me where Heller or any other Federal District/SCOTUS Court ruling has reversed an anti-gun law in NYS then and ONLY then will I admit I'm wrong.

Show me concrete TANGIBLE proof....

If you can't then admit it and lets peacefully and respectfully move on.

 

[Marine Cpl]

So, you believe legal remedies have failed ?

Pending one more appointment to SCOTUS. If a case gets denied cert after that, then yes. All legal options have failed.

After that, our only option is to ignore it and keep it buried.

 

[spat]

Nice troll....

If you can show me where Heller or any other Federal District/SCOTUS Court ruling has reversed an anti-gun law in NYS then and ONLY then will I admit I'm wrong.

Show me concrete TANGIBLE proof....

If you can't then admit it and lets peacefully and respectfully move on.

It wasn't a troll, it was an honest question. I'm willing to agree that the courts haven't done much for us, yet. But, the only realistic remedies we have available in NY are SCOTUS, or armed resistance. I still hold out hope for the former, the latter has very little chance of success.

Or are you just advocating complete capitulation, kiss them all goodby and hope you never really need them ?.

Personally, I think *my* best option is just escape to a free state, but redefining yourself out of the oppressed group (ny gunowners) doesn't help the group at all, and NY and CA insanity has a nasty habit of being contagious and infecting other states eventually.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Armed resistance isn't even an option unless the whole country is behind you. If only a few deplorables from NY do that, they'll get put down at the blink of an eye.

It has to to be an all out civil war or nothing.

So basically it's SCOTUS or nothing.

 

[Chuck D]

It wasn't a troll, it was an honest question. I'm willing to agree that the courts haven't done much for us, yet. But, the only realistic remedies we have available in NY are SCOTUS, or armed resistance. I still hold out hope for the former, the latter has very little chance of success.

Or are you just advocating complete capitulation, kiss them all goodby and hope you never really need them ?.

Personally, I think *my* best option is just escape to a free state, but redefining yourself out of the oppressed group (ny gunowners) doesn't help the group at all, and NY and CA insanity has a nasty habit of being contagious and infecting other states eventually.

I've been a permit holder in the Peoples Republic since 1982. That's 35 years.

"The Courts haven't done anything for us yet..."

The Courts have NEVER done anything for us EVER.

As far as "kissing them all goodbye and hoping you never need them" goes, the laws in this State have forced me to kiss goodbye my Uzi, HK-91, Russian proof marked AK-103, EVERY magazine I used in my SV and Glock IPSC pistols that held more than 10 rounds, MY genuine COLT manufactured 20/30 round AR15 magazines, and the list goes on and on and on.

E-mails didn't help, the NRA/NYSRPA/SCOPE Ponzi schemes didn't help, the ballot box didn't help (remember it was Pataki who stuck us with the 1st assault weapons ban and magazine capacity restriction law), online polls didn't help, rallies didn't help, and the Courts didn't help.

Prison ISN'T an option for me....won't even consider it.

We're still stuck with Sullivan, stuck with permit restrictions at will, stuck with the Safe Act.....

As far as I can tell, we have 3 VIABLE options:

1. Buy what you want and ignore the law
2. Comply
3. Move

Astorino isn't coming to save us, e-mail campaigns are a waste of time, donations to NRA/NYSRPA/SCOPE are a waste of money, and SCOTUS isn't coming to save us.

Truth hurts but there isn't a solution to this problem that will allow gun owners who want to stay in NYS to enjoy their Constitutional rights...period.

 

[spat]

I've been a permit holder in the Peoples Republic since 1982. That's 35 years.

"The Courts haven't done anything for us yet..."

The Courts have NEVER done anything for us EVER.

As far as "kissing them all goodbye and hoping you never need them" goes, the laws in this State have forced me to kiss goodbye my Uzi, HK-91, Russian proof marked AK-103, EVERY magazine I used in my SV and Glock IPSC pistols that held more than 10 rounds, MY genuine COLT manufactured 20/30 round AR15 magazines, and the list goes on and on and on.

E-mails didn't help, the NRA/NYSRPA/SCOPE Ponzi schemes didn't help, the ballot box didn't help (remember it was Pataki who stuck us with the 1st assault weapons ban and magazine capacity restriction law), online polls didn't help, rallies didn't help, and the Courts didn't help.

Prison ISN'T an option for me....won't even consider it.

We're still stuck with Sullivan, stuck with permit restrictions at will, stuck with the Safe Act.....

As far as I can tell, we have 3 VIABLE options:

1. Buy what you want and ignore the law
2. Comply
3. Move

Astorino isn't coming to save us, e-mail campaigns are a waste of time, donations to NRA/NYSRPA/SCOPE are a waste of money, and SCOTUS isn't coming to save us.

Truth hurts but there isn't a solution to this problem that will allow gun owners who want to stay in NYS to enjoy their Constitutional rights...period.

Fair enough. I still hold out hope for a federal solution, but I'll admit our chances aren't great. Still, every civil rights battle had a long string of failures before the first victory.

I'm afraid that many of our "allies" are too invested in fighting the war to actually want to win it. The NRA makes far more money off a loss than they do a victory.

 

[RBean]

I'm glad you mentioned that some of us are doing something. I have three gun cases going in Federal Court on Long Island. We are operating on a shoe string and the "gun rights" organizations have been ZERO help. In money, time, legal expertise - nothing. I thank they believe NY is a lost cause. The State Courts are a joke. They intentionally ignore Heller. Some of the Federal District Judges on Long Island show some effort to make the state and county comply with constitution and due process, but in the end will be appealed to 2nd Circuit. If the Supreme Court refuses act, nothing will change here.

 

[Chuck D]

.....and there you have it.

 

[JosERW]

Apples and oranges and with all due respect you know it.

At least I got someone to honestly admit 10 round magazines are now "industry standards." That's a BIG admission for those who constantly and consistently throw out the Heller decision as the end all to be all pro gun remedy.

A legal decision is only as good as the Court's willingness to adhere to it. So far Heller is a bust in NY.

The biggest problem with pro-gun people is their inability and unwillingness to admit that the strategy they use is a losing one. We make all the right arguments, we have "the law" on our side, we are law abiding citizens, yet we continue to lose case after case, right after right until there's nothing left. Our enemies ignore the law....and that's the only remedy we have left. To constantly refer to Heller is a waste of time and effort.

As far as caliber restrictions go, don't think it hasn't been considered. Not relevant to this conversation but food for thought just the same, ask the Brits about being limited to handgun calibers no larger than 22 rimfire and ask the Australians about being limited to a bullet diameter of .357 or smaller.

So what do you suggest? Let them strip us of our rights? You realize that these rights, when taken, are NEVER returned. They are gone FOREVER.

And no, 10 rounds is not an industry standard. The standard is the magazine that the gun was designed to be used with. Also Heller stated more than "handguns can't be banned."

That being said, it doesn't matter if corrupt judges don't care about the Constitution. I'm losing hope.

 

[JosERW]

What did we lose? You keep saying that, two cases in NY lost, they were specific cases. So, because these two were lost, nothing else can be filed?

The 2nd Circus ruled. Your AR, your magazines and you ability to purchase ammo like a free American are GONE. Precedent is set. If you challenge, you will lose. What cases do we have left? We're f'ed if SCOTUS doesn't take Kolbe and odds are they won't.

 

[JosERW]

I'm glad you mentioned that some of us are doing something. I have three gun cases going in Federal Court on Long Island. We are operating on a shoe string and the "gun rights" organizations have been ZERO help. In money, time, legal expertise - nothing. I thank they believe NY is a lost cause. The State Courts are a joke. They intentionally ignore Heller. Some of the Federal District Judges on Long Island show some effort to make the state and county comply with constitution and due process, but in the end will be appealed to 2nd Circuit. If the Supreme Court refuses act, nothing will change here.

If they think NY is a lost cause, what happens here eventually happens everywhere. They'll be sorry one day.

 

[Chuck D]

So what do you suggest? Let them strip us of our rights? You realize that these rights, when taken, are NEVER returned. They are gone FOREVER.

And no, 10 rounds is not an industry standard. The standard is the magazine that the gun was designed to be used with. Also Heller stated more than "handguns can't be banned."

That being said, it doesn't matter if corrupt judges don't care about the Constitution. I'm losing hope.

Not trying to pick a fight with you in all honesty but where have you been?

They've already stripped us of the majority of our rights and the Courts have proven that they are NO remedy as they simply either uphold unconstitutional rulings at the State and Federal District level and SCOTUS denies to hear new challenges.

As far as 10 round magazines are concerned, as soon as a manufacturer assigns a stock/part number to a pistol/rifle that ships with a reduced capacity magazine and advertises it in their product catalog...it's now an industry standard. This has been the case since 1994 .

You have an Attorney (RBean) on this very forum starting the obvious with regards to his perceived degree of success convincing State and Federal District Courts to actually give him a fair hearing. That in and of itself speaks volumes vs. the Tresmond and Bombardo show who promised the world and delivered squat.

As far as Heller is concerned, the ONLY component of the decision to help us in NYS is the part where they state you "can't ban handguns because they are in common use." Other than that, in NYS Heller is worthless from the basic perspective that the Courts simply ignore the ruling.

Let you in on a well known secret. Barring SCOTUS intervention on our behalf...our rights ARE gone forever.

 

[JosERW]

Not trying to pick a fight with you in all honesty but where have you been?

They've already stripped us of the majority of our rights and the Courts have proven that they are NO remedy as they simply either uphold unconstitutional rulings at the State and Federal District level and SCOTUS denies to hear new challenges.

As far as 10 round magazines are concerned, as soon as a manufacturer assigns a stock/part number to a pistol/rifle that ships with a reduced capacity magazine and advertises it in their product catalog...it's now an industry standard. This has been the case since 1994 .

You have an Attorney (RBean) on this very forum starting the obvious with regards to his perceived degree of success convincing State and Federal District Courts to actually give him a fair hearing. That in and of itself speaks volumes vs. the Tresmond and Bombardo show who promised the world and delivered squat.

As far as Heller is concerned, the ONLY component of the decision to help us in NYS is the part where they state you "can't ban handguns because they are in common use." Other than that, in NYS Heller is worthless from the basic perspective that the Courts simply ignore the ruling.

Let you in on a well known secret. Barring SCOTUS intervention on our behalf...our rights ARE gone forever.

The courts being corrupt doesn't negate the fact that Heller clearly states that ANY BEARABLE ARM IN COMMON USE cannot be banned. Look at Caetano. That being said, yes our only hope is the Supreme Court. DJT is going to be a one term President and we're running out of time. I hate to say it but we need a federal ban in order to get this to SCOTUS but at that point the court will probably be stacked with communists.

 

[Chuck D]

Heller...if ignored is worthless.

Courts who refuse to hear cases are useless.

DJT has NOTHING to do with Heller being ignored in NYS. SCOTUS on the other hand does BUT....

.....if SCOTUS refuses to grant Cert then SCOTUS is useless.

Get it yet ?

 

[fartgamer]

You have an Attorney (RBean) on this very forum starting the obvious with regards to his perceived degree of success convincing State and Federal District Courts to actually give him a fair hearing. That in and of itself speaks volumes vs. the Tresmond and Bombardo show who promised the world and delivered squat.

Mr Bean told it like it is, no rah rah bullshit there.