Legality of Pinned + Welded Threadsaver/Barrel Protector on Featureless vs Crowned/Non-Threaded

[unvexed]

Hi all,

I was wondering if it would be against the law to get a 16" threaded barrel and have a smith pin+weld a strike industries barrel saver in order to use it on a featureless rifle.

I called a two local shops - the first one I called said there's no such thing as a featureless threaded barrel attachment, and that included threadsaver/caps.

The second shop said they do it all the time, and they'll do it for me, but there's a two to three week waiting period because they're backlogged for that specific service.

I know the answer should be obvious, but I feel like there's nothing wrong with being thorough and asking others for clarification and/or assurance.

I mean, the second shop could be doing something entirely not allowable and I wouldn't know since I have two polar opposite responses.

Thanks!

 

[fnfalguy]

There is nothing in writing, but the general belief is that an attached thread protector satisfies the lack of threads on the barrel and the UNSAFE act.

 

[BDinPutnam]

There is nothing in writing, but the general belief is that an attached thread protector satisfies the lack of threads on the barrel and the UNSAFE act.

This.

 

[unvexed]

This.

So it should be fine if I have this done? I don't want to be hassled at a range over a benign piece of metal, and especially by a cop. I don't know if there's ever been any example cases for these things, or if anyone has given much thought to it within our state. I'm just sick of trying to decide on something and second-guessing the legality of a subtle difference that is murky because of wording.

I'm fine with just purchasing a crowned barrel, but it's way wayyyy easier to find a 16" threaded barrel with various options to choose from. i.e. fluted, mid, carbine, chrome-lined, colors, etc. And it's easier to find deals on the latter as well.

 

[BDinPutnam]

So it should be fine if I have this done? I don't want to be hassled at a range over a benign piece of metal, and especially by a cop. I don't know if there's ever been any example cases for these things, or if anyone has given much thought to it within our state. I'm just sick of trying to decide on something and second-guessing the legality of a subtle difference that is murky because of wording.

I'm fine with just purchasing a crowned barrel, but it's way wayyyy easier to find a 16" threaded barrel with various options to choose from. i.e. fluted, mid, carbine, chrome-lined, colors, etc. And it's easier to find deals on the latter as well.

Not legal advice, anecdotal.

I have seen both on the range and not seen anyone have any issues with either.

I had a thread protector pinned and welded on a gun I subsequently gave my father in law in another state. Never had any concerns on my part while I had it here.

 

[FrankenCub]

I believe silver solder will appease the ATF, don't know about the PRNY. Much easier to do.

 

[Defilade]

Ask Cuomo, He knows how to follow the law.

 

[dwa12479]

The blind pin/weld satisfies the ATF in terms of permanence with barrel length. Common sense would say that should satisfy the PRNY , but hey, you never know.

 

[Marine Cpl]

As per my the ATF, the only 2 approved methods are silver soder and seam welding. They haven’t hassled anyone over pinning and welding over the pin. But you never know. If an 18 or 20 inch barrel exists, you can always cut and crown if you do not find one in 16. Personally, that’s what I would do now despite going via questionable methods in the past.

Especially after what seems to be extra scrutiny by the police and AG after an incident lately. Look what happened to that Missouri couple. If they would have had anything questionable on that rifle...

 

[Xae289]

Yea, the cut/crowned barrel is definitely the more airtight way to go legally. That said, I have a thread protector muzzle cap on one and a false muzzle device on another. The fake muzzle device looks just like a compensator but doesn't actually have any holes. Anecdotal, so it doesn't mean much, but it seems to me that no one really bothers over anything at the range. The issue would be if you ever had to use it for self-defense or if you hunted with it and ran into a DEC officer.

 

[unvexed]

Yea, the cut/crowned barrel is definitely the more airtight way to go legally. That said, I have a thread protector muzzle cap on one and a false muzzle device on another. The fake muzzle device looks just like a compensator but doesn't actually have any holes. Anecdotal, so it doesn't mean much, but it seems to me that no one really bothers over anything at the range. The issue would be if you ever had to use it for self-defense or if you hunted with it and ran into a DEC officer.

Ugh. This State is so frustrating to deal with.

 

[Acer-m14]

why does it matter now ,, they made a non working gun to work to press charges .. why not make a welded / pined what ever illegal for charges

"
St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner is accused of tampering with evidence to secure a felony charge for his wife, Patricia. Patricia McCloskey’s
pistol was inoperable at the time of the incident as it was a courtroom prop from a previous case. Assistant Circuit Attorney Chris Hinckley ordered the crime lab to field strip McCloskey’s pistol after which they discovered the improper assembly. Documents obtained by KSDK’s “5 On Your Side” show the lab stating “The firearm was reassembled properly, test fired and functioned as designed.
"

 

[Vinson57]

Being played again?

 

[spat]

why does it matter now ,, they made a non working gun to work to press charges .. why not make a welded / pined what ever illegal for charges

"
St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner is accused of tampering with evidence to secure a felony charge for his wife, Patricia. Patricia McCloskey’s
pistol was inoperable at the time of the incident as it was a courtroom prop from a previous case. Assistant Circuit Attorney Chris Hinckley ordered the crime lab to field strip McCloskey’s pistol after which they discovered the improper assembly. Documents obtained by KSDK’s “5 On Your Side” show the lab stating “The firearm was reassembled properly, test fired and functioned as designed.
"

"That barrel was always threaded, we just had to run a die down the end to expose the threads that the defendant had carefully concealed with steel."

 

[Robin]

It depends. Do you plan on mostly full automatic, or do you have a three round burst governor on It?
Robin

 

[BDinPutnam]

It depends. Do you plan on mostly full automatic, or do you have a three round burst governor on It?
Robin

Work - Cocktail Hour - Party Time

 

[Robin]

As we used to say 'Rock n' Roll'!
Robin

 

[6AM]

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

I recently built a featureless AR15 and like you, I found threadless barrels impossible to find. So I went the route you went and had the same thoughts about how to attach the thread protector to be compliant.

This is what it says on the NY Safe Act web site is :

The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means.

After a lot of research and thinking what I decided to do was just to put red Loctite on the threads and twist the sucker down. My thought process is it says "permanent" on the red Loctite bottle. I know you can apply a torch to it and remove it, but at that point you're risking the destruction of the barrel, which doesn't seem like "reasonable means". Also, if installing magazine locks that can be undone with a drill are considered permanent then this should be fine. Also, it's a good faith attempt at being complaint. Not to mention, in my area, anyone who has had been charged with Safe Act violations (all more significant than an improperly attached thread covering) have been had the charges dropped since the laws are too vaguely written and the local law enforcement said they are unenforceable as currently written.

Again, not legal advice.

 

[dsdmmat]

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

I recently built a featureless AR15 and like you, I found threadless barrels impossible to find. So I went the route you went and had the same thoughts about how to attach the thread protector to be compliant.

This is what it says on the NY Safe Act web site is :

The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means.

After a lot of research and thinking what I decided to do was just to put red Loctite on the threads and twist the sucker down. My thought process is it says "permanent" on the red Loctite bottle. I know you can apply a torch to it and remove it, but at that point you're risking the destruction of the barrel, which doesn't seem like "reasonable means". Also, if installing magazine locks that can be undone with a drill are considered permanent then this should be fine. Also, it's a good faith attempt at being complaint. Not to mention, in my area, anyone who has had been charged with Safe Act violations (all more significant than an improperly attached thread covering) have been had the charges dropped since the laws are too vaguely written and the local law enforcement said they are unenforceable as currently written.

Again, not legal advice.

You didn’t look too hard. GM-M35 19" Stainless 223 WYLDE barrel Experimental 1:6" twist Limited Quantity

OP I never welded over my pins, there is nothing in the law or definitions which tells you what is legal. Using the ATF as a guide Is great but not necessary. I blind pinned my caps and used a dremel tool to remove them once my guns left the state.

unthreadded barrels are out there as shown in the link above (excellent barrel btw a few of us have them) you can always order unthreaded barrels from mcgowen, Krieger, and other barrel makers.

 

[Robin]

Nice!!!!!!! GM has a 20"er, thats right up my alley!!!! Thanks ds!!!!
Robin

 

[6AM]

You didn’t look too hard. GM-M35 19" Stainless 223 WYLDE barrel Experimental 1:6" twist Limited Quantity

OP I never welded over my pins, there is nothing in the law or definitions which tells you what is legal. Using the ATF as a guide Is great but not necessary. I blind pinned my caps and used a dremel tool to remove them once my guns left the state.

unthreadded barrels are out there as shown in the link above (excellent barrel btw a few of us have them) you can always order unthreaded barrels from mcgowen, Krieger, and other barrel makers.

I should have been more specific. I was looking for a 16" barreled upper, which I couldn't find without threads.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Aaaaannnnnnd just like that I'm looking at building a replacement 9mm upper.

 

[Cooolone]

Much worry about nothing... But this is the exact effect "they" want, that you worry and think you may only do things by permission!

Again and again, questions about the big bad wolf that never eats grandma!!!

And oh, before you start trampling down that "what if" path, and oh, it's easier to just avoid the problem by being "SAFE"... Remember all rights are reserved, other than those specifically INFRINGED upon by clearly written "LAW"... If it isn't clear, it's bullshit. Obfuscation is a design with intended results, the choice is whether or not you plan to participate in their defacto infringement upon your right to exercise your 2nd Amendment freedoms!

That is all...

Thanks for reading! Have a nice day!

 

[dsdmmat]

I should have been more specific. I was looking for a 16" barreled upper, which I couldn't find without threads.

To get a non bull 16” AR barrel you pretty much have to order them made custom, but that has always been the case.

 

[BDinPutnam]

To get a non bull 16” AR barrel you pretty much have to order them made custom, but that has always been the case.

Agreed- though one option if you can get it done well and affordably (for you) is to get an 18" in the profile you want and have it cut and crowned. I have one that comes in at a hair under 17". Assembled I imagine it is going to be virtually indistinguishable from a featureless 16".

 

[STS556]

I have usually been able to find non threaded crowned barrels for my builds. Sometimes it may take looking back at a website a few times to see if they get a batch of non threaded barrels in. Bulletguy Eddie used to carry 16" non threaded barrels and that's where I got some from. On the few barrels I bought with threads, I used red Loctite on the thread cap. I figure as long as the cap wont come off by hand or needs heat and a wrench, it will pass as permanent. Besides, I live in super communist lower Westchester County and never heard of anyone getting in trouble over a thread cap. I really don't think local law enforcement cares too much about thread caps on law abiding citizens rifles. Although the state police may be another story.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I have usually been able to find non threaded crowned barrels for my builds. Sometimes it may take looking back at a website a few times to see if they get a batch of non threaded barrels in. Bulletguy Eddie used to carry 16" non threaded barrels and that's where I got some from. On the few barrels I bought with threads, I used red Loctite on the thread cap. I figure as long as the cap wont come off by hand or needs heat and a wrench, it will pass as permanent. Besides, I live in super communist lower Westchester County and never heard of anyone getting in trouble over a thread cap. I really don't think local law enforcement cares too much about thread caps on law abiding citizens rifles. Although the state police may be another story.

I went to Blue Mountain a number of times with rifles with thread protectors.

Nary a word.

I imagine at least part of this is "who gives a fuck how its attached" on the part of others when they see you went featureless anyway.

To say nothing of "who gives a fuck" period, at the range (not BM specifically, just sayin').

 

[meketrefe]

No need to weld. A blind pin on the join of the sleeve is all is needed to cancel the threads.
RRA, stag and others sold hundreds of ny compliant rifles with muzzle devices pinned flush.

 

[SonOfSun]

StackPath

I've used these on my builds. You can find them at lower prices (maybe not right now but yeah...) I just linked direct to the MFR for point.

 

[togmaster]

I should have been more specific. I was looking for a 16" barreled upper, which I couldn't find without threads.

RRA has a non threaded upper. If you go bull barrel there a few to choose from.