Let’s talk PCC and sub guns!

[ExMember_4526]

Just for avoidance of doubt, “subgun” refers specifically to the full auto variety Vs. the term PCC. I now assume we are talking only about the latter in this thread.

Ha, I’m a very technical minded person. So, the beginning of the thread I used “PCC & Sub-guns”, but just rolled with “Sub-gun”, cause it seemed some in the thread we’re doing it for brevity.

Yes, here in NYS, regarding me, I’m talking PCC.

 

[ExMember_4526]

But for educational purposes, we can certainly talk about Subguns as well. When speaking about recommended hardware for NYS, we’re talking about PCC. Presumably!

 

[ExMember_4526]

Do you have a toolbox? Do you have more than a pair of pliers in it?

.223/5.56 has its place. It's not the right tool for every job.

Agreed! That’s why I’m trying to get this conversation going. The more feedback I have, the more I can make more informed decisions in the future as to what tools will work best for my perceived needs.

 

[Fightingfish]

Hey folks, first post here.

I too am looking into the Ruger PC9 with MLOK foregrip from the factory to compliment my lever actions (30/30 and .22).
It seems like a fun balance between economy and functionality...more bang than my .22, less than the ol 30/30. thanks for getting this conversation going; it has been informative.

 

[BDinPutnam]

There was a comment / question about Blue Mountain in Westchester so just chiming in on that for a second - I have not shot pistol caliber carbine on the small bore / pistol range there but I'd be surprised if they didn't let you. The large bore range is pretty much anything goes, have shot everything from .222 to .300 Win Mag over there. That said shooting 9mm on that range (large) would be a pain- they reset targets for you and do it hourly.

 

[Jackalope]

One subgun that hasn't been mentioned is the PAK-9, which is based upon the AK platform. Unfortunately, they won't meet the unSAFE criteria. I just acquired one and I hope to take it to the range later this week. They're very heavy, but solid and supposedly very reliable. Due to the weight, there shouldn't be much recoil.

Another PCC which isn't politically correct in NY is the venerable Uzi. That's been my go to PDW for several decades. Now that we're living in a State that appreciates the 2nd Amendment I plan on filing a Form 1 and SBR the Uzi. Again, it's heavy, but very manageable and very reliable. I'm guessing that mine has had over 5000 rounds in it since I bought it new back in the '80's.

 

[@thewheels]

Ruger needs to make their carbine in 9x25 Dillon already.

 

[ExMember_4526]

One subgun that hasn't been mentioned is the PAK-9, which is based upon the AK platform. Unfortunately, they won't meet the unSAFE criteria. I just acquired one and I hope to take it to the range later this week. They're very heavy, but solid and supposedly very reliable. Due to the weight, there shouldn't be much recoil.

Another PCC which isn't politically correct in NY is the venerable Uzi. That's been my go to PDW for several decades. Now that we're living in a State that appreciates the 2nd Amendment I plan on filing a Form 1 and SBR the Uzi. Again, it's heavy, but very manageable and very reliable. I'm guessing that mine has had over 5000 rounds in it since I bought it new back in the '80's.

What about the RAK-9?

Anyone have any info on that?

They are actually available on the market in a configuration that attempts to establish compliance.

Wouldn’t an AR 9 variant offer significant returns over an AK 9 variant? (Manual of arms, weight, ergonomics, modularity, etc)

Anyone running PWS AR 9 variant (whether in NY State compliant configuration or out of state)?

I’ll check out PAK-9 for Florida property when in Florida.

Keep me posted on reliability in relation to round count! (PAK-9)

 

[Bustedknees]

No talk of the Hi-point carbines ?? shame on you all..

 

[Justincase]

People swear by their Just Right Carbines. I think they're hideous, but they run I guess.

 

[Justincase]

No talk of the Hi-point carbines ?? shame on you all..

I'd have one in a second if they were NY compliant

 

[Bustedknees]

I'd have one in a second if they were NY compliant

most should be legal . the only question on the old models are , is it a magazine well or is it a pistol grip?

 

[Airborneguy]

I built a 9mm AR that I absolutely love but cannot use in the PCC USPSA comps I shoot because it’s not NYC compliant.

 

[knuts]

There was a comment / question about Blue Mountain in Westchester so just chiming in on that for a second - I have not shot pistol caliber carbine on the small bore / pistol range there but I'd be surprised if they didn't let you. The large bore range is pretty much anything goes, have shot everything from .222 to .300 Win Mag over there. That said shooting 9mm on that range (large) would be a pain- they reset targets for you and do it hourly.

you can shoot pcc at the pistol range, my wife shoots my pcc there alot of times. Shotguns too.

 

[ExMember_4526]

Interesting article from P&S on PCC:

PCC for Practice and Competition

PCC in competition Competition will not get you kilt in the streetz, and competing with a PCC is no different. Getting practical experience moving with, reloading, transitioning, and just working with a duty or defensive rifle is difficult for many people due to the lack of proper facilities...

primaryandsecondary.com

 

[BMF JK]

I have an itch that I believe a PCC just might scratch . I’ve considered different platforms , ruger PCC , AR 9 and seriously considering CZ scorpion Evo .

I’ve found what appears to be a viable FUAC option and my local ffl is comfortable doing the transfer . It’s a featureless evo with a fixed stock and a fin wrapped grip which I’m not familiar with . Fortunately my local ffl has an evo which I have handled and fired using a grip as I would if a fin was in place . I immediately noticed the evo safety makes a great thumb shelf which creates a relatively positive purchase on the grip .

 

[togmaster]

I have an itch that I believe a PCC just might scratch . I’ve considered different platforms , ruger PCC , AR 9 and seriously considering CZ scorpion Evo .

I’ve found what appears to be a viable FUAC option and my local ffl is comfortable doing the transfer . It’s a featureless evo with a fixed stock and a fin wrapped grip which I’m not familiar with . Fortunately my local ffl has an evo which I have handled and fired using a grip as I would if a fin was in place . I immediately noticed the evo safety makes a great thumb shelf which creates a relatively positive purchase on the grip .
View attachment 62207

I've seen them and have not asked my FFL his thoughts yet. Thordsen also makes a stock for them if you don't like that grip.

 

[BMF JK]

I've seen them and have not asked my FFL his thoughts yet. Thordsen also makes a stock for them if you don't like that grip.
[/QUOTE

I’m not liking the thordson on the evo at all . The fin imo is much less hideous .

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have an itch that I believe a PCC just might scratch . I’ve considered different platforms , ruger PCC , AR 9 and seriously considering CZ scorpion Evo .

I’ve found what appears to be a viable FUAC option and my local ffl is comfortable doing the transfer . It’s a featureless evo with a fixed stock and a fin wrapped grip which I’m not familiar with . Fortunately my local ffl has an evo which I have handled and fired using a grip as I would if a fin was in place . I immediately noticed the evo safety makes a great thumb shelf which creates a relatively positive purchase on the grip .
View attachment 62207

Just keep in mind that while that piece of kydex on the grip works in California because they define a pistol grip as a grip that places your hand at a certain angle that allows the thumb to wrap around it, NY has no such definition.

Because we do not have such a definition that explains what a pistol grip is or isn’t, that thing is just a pistol grip with a piece of kydex attached to it and it would be the same as having threaded barrel with kydex wrapped around it or a bayonet lug wrapped in kydex.

 

[togmaster]

The gun also has a threaded barrel. You will have to attach the fake suppressor some way.

 

[BMF JK]

Just keep in mind that while that piece of kydex on the grip works in California because they define a pistol grip as a grip that places your hand at a certain angle that allows the thumb to wrap around it, NY has no such definition.

Because we do not have such a definition that explains what a pistol grip is or isn’t, that thing is just a pistol grip with a piece of kydex attached to it and it would be the same as having threaded barrel with kydex wrapped around it or a bayonet lug wrapped in kydex.

I see your point .
But the definition stated in the penal law is beyond vague and is a matter of opinion.


(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

WTF does that mean ? A standard pistol grip to me is not conspicuous at all , what truly draws my attention is the fugly shit we have to put together to have a functioning semi auto rifle !

 

[BMF JK]

The gun also has a threaded barrel. You will have to attach the fake suppressor some way.

According to my local ffl the faux suppressor is permanently attached from the factory.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I see your point .
But the definition stated in the penal law is beyond vague and is a matter of opinion.


(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

WTF does that mean ? A standard pistol grip to me is not conspicuous at all , what truly draws my attention is the fugly shit we have to put together to have a functioning semi auto rifle !

Unfortunately to defend yourself, you can only go by what is actually written in the law itself. It says a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously. It doesn’t say a pistol grip that isn’t wrapped in kydex, barbed wire, or has nails protruding through it. A pistol grip according to our laws is still a pistol grip no matter what is attached to it.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I still agree that a fin is probably problematic in NYistan and personally I wouldn't bite, but if you're comfortable with it, go for it.

 

[ExMember_4526]

I see your point .
But the definition stated in the penal law is beyond vague and is a matter of opinion.


(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

WTF does that mean ? A standard pistol grip to me is not conspicuous at all , what truly draws my attention is the fugly shit we have to put together to have a functioning semi auto rifle !

Stick a Thordsen Stock on there (I think they look fine)! You’ll have something that approximates on a “pistol” grip (in terms of ergonomics) and can be utilized to establish an attempt at compliance!

There’s certain functional issues with the Thordsen stock (but less so on a PCC).

Either way, they make one for that system (scorpion), and you’ll be able to run it normally (for all intents & purposes), whether as a self defense implement, competition or “plinking”!

If you move out of state, flip it (either here or to someone in CA).

If these unconstitutional laws are ever successfully challenged, sell it as a “relic” from a certain “historical period” for more than you paid!

Use what you can in NYS, just make sure when trying to establish an attempt at compliance, your decision is calculated!!!

I’m thinking of making a move on the Ruger PCC, which MLok rail should I get, the new factory one?

 

[BMF JK]

I despise the fact we have to keep each other in check with our current reality .
I’m sick every time I open my safe and see neutered or disfigured rifles . There is no “common sense” about it .

 

[ExMember_4526]

I despise the fact we have to keep each other in check with our current reality .
I’m sick every time I open my safe and see neutered or disfigured rifles . There is no “common sense” about it .

Look, I agree. If you really think about it, we’ve been dealing with infringements for over 100 years!

Even in a so-called “free state”, it’s ridiculous that one has to pay a $200 tax stamp (& deal with certain limitations) if they want their barrel shorter than 16”, or slap on a brace. Same thing if they want a suppressor. Or other absurdities in order to have the select fire option.

Let’s say one wants a PKM, look what annoying limitations you have to deal with!

There was a time when a Thomson could be mail ordered to your house!

We can talk about ordnance, but some people might not find that PC (even on this forum).

There’s a lot of complacency everywhere! (Look at NY, CA, now VA)

At the end of the day it is what it is... having to deal with the legal realities, in my mind, the most important thing is to have a functional (practical & efficient) weapon system! “Neutered” or not!

 

[ExMember_4526]

Ha, the intro is classic! “It’s about to get real...”

 

[Vapor]

I have a .357 lever action...does that count? Oh? Okay I'll go hang out with the fudds...

 

[BMF JK]

Rainier Arms 9MM Billet Receiver Set - Black

FFL Required Before Shipping.Please have your dealer email a copy of their FFL to FFL@rainierarms.com or fax it to 253-218-2998, referencing your name and order number.

www.rainierarms.com

Just ordered this receiver set through my ffl today .
After much consideration I decided to go with an AR platform .