Loading 357mag with 38spl charge?

[HighlandLofts]

Yesterday while out target shooting with my 6 year old grandson he shot my 7 1/2" 357 magnum Redhawk with light 38spl ammo. They are loaded with bullseye, unique and win231.
The win231 was the favorite load, so I will be loading up some 38spl tonight with 4.8 grains of win231 behind a Berry 125 grain target hollow point, 800 feet per second.
MAX VELOCITY FOR THESE PROJECTILES IS 1250 FPS.
Would it work doing this load in 357 magnum cased?
Loading the rounds in the 357 cases would keep the cylinder cleaner, that small size difference between the two cases.
When shooting 22 shorts through the single size it builds up carp in the cylinder and makes it hard for the 22lr ammo to slide right in. I have been taking my gun cleaning stuff to wire brush the cylinders after shooting the shorter rounds.

I want a real light 357 cased load for the grandson. If this 4.8 grains of win231 pushes the 38spl. Load it seems it should work in the 357 case as well.

 

[71velle]

I load 231 in a 38 case with good results too. A buddy who has done lots of load testing came to the conclusion that trying to make light loads in the 357 case does not work well. I have not tried it myself tho.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I load 231 in a 38 case with good results too. A buddy who has done lots of load testing came to the conclusion that trying to make light loads in the 357 case does not work well. I have not tried it myself tho.

Yeah but why? If it is accuracy the kid may not really care.

 

[tony]

I'm thinking load density could be a concern. It is a generally accepted fact that a higher load density yields more uniform ignition. If the case is not filled enough the primer may ignite too much powder at the instant of ignition causing a possibly dangerous spike in pressure.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

 

[HighlandLofts]

I will pick up some trailboss powder & give that a try.
I will keep loading the 38spl until I find a 357 load that works.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

As soon as I heard what you were trying to do I immediately thought of trail boss. You can load pretty much anything with it even if you don't have load data. Just follow their instructions. For super duper quiet subsonic 308 and 300 BLK I use trail boss. They don't cycle so it's whisper quiet.

 

[HighlandLofts]

The win 231 in the 38spl was the quiet charge and less recoil. I loaded 50 up last night. I need to load up some hot 357 loads for the Redhawk for myself to use on deer back there if they ever open up the borders for pistols.
I have a Ruger 77/357 rifle to.pair up with the 357 Redhawk or my 6" gp100.

 

[71velle]

Yeah but why? If it is accuracy the kid may not really care.

I think the post by tony is the reason. When I want light loads I use 38 cases. My buddy has tried several combos for a light load in a 357 case and gave up, he is a load geek so that is good enough for me.


I believe Trail Boss is a powder that a little goes a long way. 3.5 grains sounds light but 874 fps is still higher than many 38 loads so you might not have any advantage there.

Also be carful I have read about a few guy in search of the light loads ending up with on stuck in the barrel.

I do shoot a lot of 38 loads in my 686 and on occasion run a wheel or so of hot 357 for a change up and have had no issue getting the longer rounds in. I dont clean the revolver to often.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I believe Trail Boss is a powder that a little goes a long way. 3.5 grains sounds light but 874 fps is still higher than many 38 loads so you might not have any advantage there.

3.5 grains of trailboss is much different than pretty much any other powder you can think of. It's extremely bulky. 3.5 grains of TB will probably fill up the case almost touching the bullet. 5.3 grains would probably be compressed. But the beauty of TB is that it's not an extremely powerful powder for its weight unlike something like titegroup. Even compressed loads are very safe with TB. And of course because of the full case the ignition is very uniform. Lofts said that the 38sp were running at 800 FPS. I think these loads would be perfect.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I was talking to my son this morning and he thought a lot of the cowboy action shooters use trailboss powder. I have been taking my grandson to watch them shoot on the 2nd Sunday of the month. This Sunday I'll talk with a couple of the guys and pick their brains on loads. Next payday I'll pick up a couple pounds of powder to try
On the way home if I get out early enough I'll stop and see if this one gun shop has any TB Powder.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Yup. Trail Boss is very popular in making "cowboy" loads. Makes doing all those fancy trick shots much easier when the round only has a fraction of the power of a full house load.

 

[71velle]

The Hogdon web sight has a TrailBoss load for 125 grain in a 357 case starting at 3.0 grains and 753 fps. Give it a shot.

The Cowboy action shooters would be a great source!!!

Please let us know what you find out.

 

[HighlandLofts]

They shoot the 2nd Sunday of the month so we will go hit them up for some info. I'll post some picture's after we get home sunday.

 

[zzrguy]

I have loaded Trail Boss in almost every cartridge I reload it is a fun powder and real versatile. Even a hot load of trail boss is a light recoil it is a very low pressure powder and big flakes. I load 150gr 30-06 am it recoild like a 5.56.

 

[HighlandLofts]

If the gun shop has any I will grab a pound on the way home from work today.
Thank you for the information on the trailboss.

 

[HighlandLofts]

They had trail boss so I picked up a can of it.
9 ounce can was $23 and change.
I will load some up later tonight if I don't get in to the beer.

 

[HighlandLofts]

The Hogdon web sight has a TrailBoss load for 125 grain in a 357 case starting at 3.0 grains and 753 fps. Give it a shot.

The Cowboy action shooters would be a great source!!!

Please let us know what you find out.

I will load up some 357 cases with the 3.0 grains of trail boss tonight and give it a try.

We have bad weather coming in for the weekend, it started raining a few hours ago. The snow level is suppse to come down to 4,000 feet. Have to see what happens tomorrow & sunday.

 

[71velle]

I will load up some 357 cases with the 3.0 grains of trail boss tonight and give it a try.

We have bad weather coming in for the weekend, it started raining a few hours ago. The snow level is suppse to come down to 4,000 feet. Have to see what happens tomorrow & sunday.

Be real carful with one getting stuck in the barrel. I have read a few story of guys having that happen in search of the light loads.

 

[HighlandLofts]

The 3 grain measurement is listed on the hogdon site, the high end being about 5 grains, I will load several different grain bullets in groups of five and see what goes.

I will be doing some test runs of 158 grain hornady xtp in 357mag for deer hunting for my gp100 and Redhawk.

Then 180 grain Xtp bullets for my ruger 77/357.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Are you using a hard copy or the website? There are 3 loads on the website using TB. 90 and 125 grain projectiles use 3.5 grains and the 158 grain projectile uses 3.2 grains as starting load.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I looked at the website last night, I was going to load up some roundslast night but went to bed early, I did prime 50 - 38spl cases.
I have a bunch of primed 357 cases as well.

I will load up the grandson some cartridges and then I need to work up some deer hunting loads for my 6" GP100, my 7 1/2" Redhawk and y Ruger 77/357.
I had a shit load of powder, I will try a bunch of it out to see what combination works the best.

For the revolvers I bought and plan on using Hornady 158 grain XTP, for the rifle I bought Hornady 180 grain XTP.
It is all fun & games, and very enjoyable.

 

[HighlandLofts]

Went to the cowboy action shoot today and talked to Mudflat Mike, he goes all over the world for these events. He has been to twelve different countries shooting in these matches.

My grandson got to shoot his stainless 32 H&R Blackhawk. 5 shots, 5 hits.


He said that the win 231 was a dirty powder and he uses Red Dot and 700X.

I have Red Dot, I will get some 700X next Friday when I get paid.

I will be taking my grandson our over the next few weeks to practice the cowboy shooting and let him have at it once he gets it down.

I need to buy the guns I will need before I can start.

 

[HighlandLofts]

Last night I loaded up fifty 357mag bullets with the trailboss powder. We will see tomorrow how it goes.

 

[HighlandLofts]

He shot a bunch of my 38spl and 357 magnum revolvers yesterday.
I had 50 - 38 special rounds loaded with the minimum amount of Win 231 and 50 - 357 magnum rounds loaded with the minimum amount of Trail boss. He loved shooting the big guns.
A friend brought some gallon milk jugs filled with water that he three in the freezer the day before. He was hitting real close to them or hitting them.



I will load some more up for our next trip.
I did buy a 500 piece pack of Rainier 150 grain fmj bullets yesterday.

 

[HighlandLofts]

After I picked my grandson up from school at 12.40 this afternoon I loaded up 50 rounds of 357 magnum with Rainier 158 grain hollow points and the minimum amount of trailboss powder. He shot them up some other low recoil 38 ammo I had loaded and three 40 round boxes of American eagle 22lr ammo.

Now I need to get some 357 worked up again.

 

[meketrefe]

The case can take the same pressure and much more but the density will be very low so I do not encourage very fast powders
like bulls eye because the high risk unless you can make sure you will never make a mistake (even a small one) that can be costly.

It also depends of the firearm and cases. The issue is not max pressure but how fast peak pressure comes as fast powders can ruin cases
and/or guns.

Specially stay away from aggressive revolver cones, cast bullets and certain polygonal style rifling that can increase pressure progressively.

I would go with something a tad slower and cleaner.

Giving advice w/o precise dimensions of bullet diameter, rifling and gun specs, brass, etc.. is risky business.

Keep in mind reloading manuals are wrong in so many things. Normally to be safe but they can also go into the dark side in ocassions.

Specially wen doing unconventional loads one must be very careful.

I suggest use quick load or powley formulas for optimal and safer estimations.