Lost Permit Applications? Really!?

VietnamEraVet

VietnamEraVet

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I have had several serious issues with the Erie County PPO. Here is only one from almost a decade ago:

When my permit had been wrongfully suspended (and that forced me to turn in my guns to my local Police Dept., the OPPD), and then was rightfully “reinstated“ by the judge, the Erie County PPO fucked with me for months. Their chief Clerk denied that they had received the Court Order FOR MONTHS, and refused to return my Permit Card to me. Said that once they received the Court Order “from the Court”, that they would then issue a letter “restoring” my permit, and that they would then mail that letter to me. Only by me then coming back downtown and presenting their letter to them would they return my permit card back to me. And naturally, they would NOT allow me to present them with a copy of the Court Order that I had received directly from the Court,- because "that might be a document forged by me!" (Seriously, - what an absolute crock of shit reason they use to deny our rights. Like I would risk losing my gun rights by forging a NYS Court legal document??? Complete bullshit excuse on their part to delay and deny our rights!)

Weeks went by and no letter. I went down there, requested to speak to the Chief Clerk, only to be told “We will get to it when we get to it AFTER we receive the Court Order. And we're busy right now“. I thought, "Really, how fucking hard is it, and how long would it take to change my name on a form letter with MS Word, and reissue it???"

Finally, after waiting patiently, and having received nothing for two months, I went over their heads to the Erie County Clerk’s Office First Deputy Attorney. She said “come with me”, and we marched straight into the PPO Chief Clerk’s inner office. She demanded that they immediately provide my file to her. They hemmed and hawed; and said they couldn’t find it. But she persisted, and we stood there a while as they looked.

Finally, they produced it and handed it to her. She opened it, and lo and behold, the item in the top of the file was the Court Order reinstating my permit. And incredibly, - it was stamped as having been received in their office two months earlier, - the same day it was issued by the judge upstairs in the same building as the PPO! We left the office with my file. She then went to a copy machine where she copied my entire file, and gave the copies to me. She told me that “it was my file and that I had a right to see everything in it”. We then went back, and she handed my file to the Chief Clerk, and ordered him to “get my restoration letter issued and mailed TODAY”.

I finally received the letter about 1 week later (from downtown Buffalo,- a mere 15 miles away at my home.) I immediately went downtown to the PPO with the letter. They were NOT happy seeing me, and only begrudgingly gave my permit card back to me. (Their own comments written in my file, - and which I have a copy of, told the other clerks, that "When I eventually would come there to get my permit back, - because my permit had been reinstated, - that they were to make sure that I got no other paperwork, and to just get me my card and get me out of their office". Those internal instructions were written well before I got my CCW Permit Card back from them months later.)

Then it was off to the Orchard Park PD where the same shit played out AGAIN! I presented my CCW permit card (because they WILL NOT release your handguns back to you without the card). I also presented them with the Court Order, and the “Restoration letter”. Then they gave me the run around for a couple more months, saying that they had never received the Court Order, and told me that they “could not accept a copy of the Court Order from me,- because it might be a forgery"…(sound familiar???). And then they pulled even more delays with them saying that only a certain officer had access to where they were stored in the evidence room, and he was “too busy on another case”, then ”on vacation”, and so on. Initially, they would not even respond to my visits to the station, or phone messages I left, and not even emails (after I had managed to find their email addresses elsewhere). Finally, after that went on for a while, and they saw that I would not give up, they responded. But they still dragged their asses.

I had contacted the Deputy EC Clerk Attorney again, and she emailed them a copy of the Court Order directly, so they could no longer deny having received a legal copy. And it still took me a couple of months to get them to release my handguns to me. IMHO, they are just plain asshole motherfuckers!

It took me months to finally get them back from the OPPD, even with being persistent. Never angry, just firm in my resolve. When I showed up 15 minutes before the appointed date and time that they finally notified me that they were ready to return them to me (with almost no notice, and at the last minute), the officer I was scheduled to meet with to get them back, came out to the lobby and angrily demanded to know WHY I did not show up at the appointed time (5:30PM), I told him: "If you think I was going to give you ANY excuse to say that I was NOT here at your appointed time, you are dreaming. I will still be in your lobby at 5:30 when you will return my firearms back to me." And even that was a painful and unpleasant experience.

The bottom line as the bullshit I have endured shows is these assholes will create every possible obstacle to fuck with our 2A rights.

If you get hit with a Red Flag Law violation in NYS, you can expect the same sort of shit to happen to you.
 
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VietnamEraVet

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1Self said:
I'm thinking that these applicants may have good standing to reach a higher court, in light of other situations like this one:
Mecklenburg Sheriff McFadden sued over concealed gun permits
Click to expand...
When I moved to the Charlotte area, I initialed moved to Union County which is directly adjacent to Mecklenburg County (essentially the City limits of Charlotte). When I was looking at buying a home (and later did), my realtor repeatedly asked me to look at homes in Mecklenburg County, - some of which looked like good choices.

But numerous people had told me to avoid Mecklenburg County due to liberal inner city issues (including this sheriff), and warned me that they fuck with people over gun rights in that county. People told me that they were taking up to a year or longer (gee, - sounds a lot like Erie County, NY when I got mine...).

I told my realtor that no matter how good a particular house looked, if it was in Mecklenburg County, it was a no go. Got my NC permit in Union County. Took about 1 month. Later, sold my home in NC, and moved to SC. Applied here. Permit received in about 1 month. Done.
 
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VietnamEraVet

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ManualF150 said:
I got a bunch of friends that live in northern SC. Apparently its a good place to live.
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It absolutely is. Anyone thinking about escaping New Yorkistan and heading south should feel free to contact me for reasons to consider this area. I live in Ft. Mill, SC, literally just across the NC / SC state line from Charlotte.

Food and gas is about 15-20% lower than in NY. Property taxes (especially for seniors) are much much lower! Car registrations can be more expensive with newer vehicles. Personally, my 2008 Honda only costs me $23 / year. No car inspections. Lower sales and income taxes. Genuinely very, very nice people everywhere. Few if any traffic revenuer stops. Virtually no snow, but hotter in summer. But just 2 hours from the mountains when it's hot if you need a reprieve, or 2 hours to Myrtle Beach when desired. No alligators like in Florida. Reasonable speed limits: 70 MPH even in construction zones, and most everyone does 80 MPH. No anti-gun laws, and the cops are very chill. About the only thing in short supply is Beef on Weck, a good charbroiled hot dog, and great pizza.

Very enjoyable overall.
 
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ManualF150

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I'm thinking of moving to the Duncan/Spartanburg area if anything.

I like it down there. You are right, the people down there are awesome for the most part.
 
Acer-m14

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i spent 2 week in Rock Hill SC when i was on leave from the Navy on my way to my duty station in Charleston ..

the 2 weeks was with my boot camp bunk mate and his family ..

learned how to water ski then

was a nice place back then .. 85/86 ish i think

i suck with dates .. LOL

while at my duty station in Charleston .. the movie the North and South was being filmed on the Battery there ..

i got permission to be on the movie set .. met a few actors and missed a few back then
 
Saltwater60

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I 100% believe they lost these applications. I know plenty of people who handed their applications in as husbands and wife pairs and permits are handed out months differently. I know people who’s permits took 4-6 months when mine took 14 months and there is no reason for the delays otherwise especially with spouses. I’m sure they lose them. HIPPA violations are a federal crime so what will happen with that?
 
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1Self

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Saltwater60 said:
I 100% believe they lost these applications. I know plenty of people who handed their applications in as husbands and wife pairs and permits are handed out months differently. I know people who’s permits took 4-6 months when mine took 14 months and there is no reason for the delays otherwise especially with spouses. I’m sure they lose them. HIPPA violations are a federal crime so what will happen with that?
Click to expand...
"Lost" simply means that they were not enough of a priority to keep track of them. Whether or not they were actually misplaced, in light of the second article shared above, there is action that can be taken to help NYS offices to tighten up their practices. Although I generally am not a fan of bringing litigation whenever things go wrong (second to last resort), in cases such as these it may be the best way to make these folks care enough to process the applications correctly.
VietnamEraVet said:
The system is operated haphazardly at best.

In Florida, every single CCW app submitted has a sequential number on it so that the applicant can track it in the system. NY could learn from FL, and fix the PPO process, but they won’t. They want it to stay a clusterfuck.
Click to expand...
This is a great point, and could be the end result of accountability measures that hit these offices' purses.
 
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