Making the G3/CETME etc NYSafe Compliant?

[ranger_rick]

Been toying with few ideas on how to make G3 .308 NYSafe act compliant.

Obviously there is the flash suppressor issue. That "problem" solved.

Then there is the magazines. Blocked and low capacity mags are available BUT it looks as if fixing the magazine would make it a PIA to load.

How about a spur or a fin?? i am guessing a fin will be a no go because its not "permanent"

Thoughts?? other ideas??

Thank you in advance RR

 

[MilesTeg]

With that style rifle your only option is to featureless. You will need a spur to take the place of the pistol grip. I don't know of anyone that makes them and I also am not familiar enough with that gun to comment on if an AR spur can be modified. The barrel device would have to be taken care of. You will either need plain crowned barrel or weld on a thread protector on the end of the barrel. The safe act considers the threads to be a feature so you will need to disable them somehow.

Lastly there is no permanence in the letter of the law in regards to features. The only permanence has do with blocking of a magazine to take 10 rounds.

 

[meketrefe]

Ask a gunsmith to retrofit to a lever release. This will be reversible at some point.

 

[MilesTeg]

Ask a gunsmith to retrofit to a lever release. This will be reversible at some point.

Is that type of weapon able to be top loaded?

 

[meketrefe]

Is that type of weapon able to be top loaded?

No. The weapon continues to be the same . Essentially you remove the self loading function and hold the bolt open until you
press a lever you your thumb or index finger that must include a sear and release mechanism. The bolt must stop until the
lever is released and engaged again so if one keeps pressing the lever the bolt will stop anyway until the release is depressed.
I have converted a couple of stoner ars like this but not a cetme. I would have to look into the cetme and see but it should be
doable.
This is a permanent lever release design but compatible with the actual AR should that ever be needed.
Just so you get the idea.

The Cetme will be harder to convert but there are others that will be even harder.

All pretty stupid when one could get a classic autoloader with a lot more fire power than any
of these military ones. Like a 750 with 10 ronds of 30-06 or 35 whelen for example.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

If you're talking about an actual HK G3 that would be a travesty. If you're talking a CETME or PTR 91 then you could do it but it would still ruin a very cool rifle. You're talking about a rifle where the grip is part of the lower.

 

[Phauxtoe]

what did i just see?
and why?

Solving a problem that doesn't exist!

 

[ArmedCorgi]

No. The weapon continues to be the same . Essentially you remove the self loading function and hold the bolt open until you
press a lever you your thumb or index finger that must include a sear and release mechanism. The bolt must stop until the
lever is released and engaged again so if one keeps pressing the lever the bolt will stop anyway until the release is depressed.
I have converted a couple of stoner ars like this but not a cetme. I would have to look into the cetme and see but it should be
doable.
This is a permanent lever release design but compatible with the actual AR should that ever be needed.
Just so you get the idea.

The Cetme will be harder to convert but there are others that will be even harder.

All pretty stupid when one could get a classic autoloader with a lot more fire power than any
of these military ones. Like a 750 with 10 ronds of 30-06 or 35 whelen for example.

That's really weird. But made think what if there were a way to make it so that instead of a lever having to be depressed, the bolt was closed by allowing the trigger to reset. So in other words, after firing, you wouldn't/couldn't chamber another round until you released the trigger. Would that even be possible to do and would it still classify as a semi-auto?

 

[meketrefe]

Not the trigger. It can be a separate lever in front of the trigger actuated with the same index finger, but not the trigger part itself.
That is the way I converted two rifles to lever release.
This way there is no possible way to leave the room open on the self loading feature. This is defined by the ATF.
More people are not doing it it because it is more complex and can be more expensive depending on the rifle.

 

[C3D]

The only way to do this and have it be worth shooting is to go back in time to 2013 and register a 93/91 before the cut off.

Alternatively contact any of the good HK smiths out there and see if they can rig up a spur. A fixed mag is impossible with the bent flats receiver.

My suggestions are RDTS (Red Dog Target Supply) or TSC Manufacturing.

But a spur equipped 93/91 is going to be unpleasant to shoot, it is probably not worth the effort.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Not the trigger. It can be a separate lever in front of the trigger actuated with the same index finger, but not the trigger part itself.
That is the way I converted two rifles to lever release.
This way there is no possible way to leave the room open on the self loading feature. This is defined by the ATF.
More people are not doing it it because it is more complex and can be more expensive depending on the rifle.

The way you describe it, with the lever in front of the trigger, still seems like a decent workaround to the "assault weapon" test. I'd imagine your rate of fire wouldn't be too hindered either. It would still depend on how fast you could pull the trigger. Just might be tough to wear gloves.

 

[meketrefe]

It is not a workaround around assault BS. It really converts the firearm from self loading to lever release. At this point the unSAFE BS ban for autoloaders doesn't apply anymore. Same thing with a saiga shotgun or any other firearm converted to pump or lever release.

 

[ranger_rick]

the spur is doable but the weapon is heavy and i am guessing you would be sacrificing some control.

plus there is the ugly factor

HK-AR U.S. MADE SEMI-AUTO LOWER

 

[ranger_rick]

No. The weapon continues to be the same . Essentially you remove the self loading function and hold the bolt open until you
press a lever you your thumb or index finger that must include a sear and release mechanism. The bolt must stop until the
lever is released and engaged again so if one keeps pressing the lever the bolt will stop anyway until the release is depressed.
I have converted a couple of stoner ars like this but not a cetme. I would have to look into the cetme and see but it should be
doable.
This is a permanent lever release design but compatible with the actual AR should that ever be needed.
Just so you get the idea.

The Cetme will be harder to convert but there are others that will be even harder.

All pretty stupid when one could get a classic autoloader with a lot more fire power than any
of these military ones. Like a 750 with 10 ronds of 30-06 or 35 whelen for example.

i would like to see if this is possible. unfortunately i am no gunsmith

 

[ranger_rick]

here is a link from another forum showing a "bolt catch" with lever designed to engage when the last round is fired.

would something like this work as above??

Ladies and gentlemen! The first proper last round bolt catch on a cetme!!

 

[meketrefe]

here is a link from another forum showing a "bolt catch" with lever designed to engage when the last round is fired.

would something like this work as above??

Ladies and gentlemen! The first proper last round bolt catch on a cetme!!

I could not see the video clearly (too choppy) but I get the idea.
The thing is one cannot use the bolt catch for this. Or we should say one should not use the bolt catch to do this.
In order for the bolt release to be excluded from ATF self loading definition the ralease mechanism must :

A) Always lock up the action.
B) If the release lever continues to be depressed it will stop anyway until the lever is released and pressed again.
C) The trigger will not release if the action doesn't lock up (short stroke).

This is why putting a spring on the bolt catch is not the answer. It must include a new lever with a proper sear to
engage/disengage. I guess one could use part of the original LRBO catch to support the new system but then I
would prefer to leave the LBRO feature untouched. This is a tad more involved and most likely requires to
contact an experienced gunsmith or a skilled metal worker that can make small parts and heat treat them properly.

I hope this makes sense .

 

[ranger_rick]

agreed poor video, but ta least he included photos of his work.

yes conceptually ...i understand what you are saying. i am not happy about it LOL but i do understand.

so i guess going featureless would be the only option.

and that wouldn't be fun....the G3 (and its variants) are not lightweight rifles.

 

[MilesTeg]

I know you probably wont like this answer. Maybe try sticking with an AR or AK that have an established compliant options. The only reason I say this is because it sounds like your going to have one hell of a project on your hands otherwise. Which is OK if that's what you want.

 

[ranger_rick]

I know you probably wont like this answer. Maybe try sticking with an AR or AK that have an established compliant options. The only reason I say this is because it sounds like your going to have one hell of a project on your hands otherwise. Which is OK if that's what you want.

absolutely. but i am not shopping

my AR is NYsafe act compliant.

most of the time... the focus has been direct toward AR/AK platforms compliant and i was curious whether or not something could be done for G3 /clones

 

[meketrefe]

I agree with Miles. Simple is better.
I think the Cetme is a great design but if I was going to get one I would go for the model L with the latest polymer furniture.
I shot it in the service and during weapons familiarization programs but it is almost impossible to find converted civilian and
properly done. Not that the retrofits based on the model C are not nice but any earlier models are a futile attempt to reproduce
a firearm that otherwise doesn't make much sense anymore, specially in NYS with the SAFE ACT BS.
If you like all metal military pedigree and the 308 chamber you might find appeal in the east in molot and izmash rifles based on the Kalash action.
Those come in sporterized versions (saiga, vepr) that you don't have to touch for NY compliance and they shoot as well or better
then the older cetmes. At some point I wanted to build a 6x45 out of a cetme L but conversions and retrofits are impossible to find.
Any imports russian or not, complete or kits, new or used, are a big problem right now so I would wait until Trump lifts Obama's import ban and
then you will have more options and reasonable prices (lets hope). People are now taking advantage of the scarce to rip off some clueless souls.
Another idea is to see if you can find a yugo M76 or M77 kit and get a 308 barrel for it (or 7mm08 or 260 or whatever caliber) and
then get a sporter stock fitted to the slant receiver. US made receivers are really nice so one might end up with a very nice
rifle that can do a lot of things with. The key is to locate the carrier, trunions and bolt. The rest you have in US made aftermarket
of very good quality. I would also keep the barrel profile wider and get a larger gas block for added accuracy.
If you don't have the tools or experience a local skilled gunsmith will be able to put a compliant rifle together in no time and possibly more cost
effective and unique given the current price situation.
Another option is the Remigtion 750 that can be beefed up to bad ass status. Accuracy systems have enverything you need including larger
gas blocks, tactical rails and the 10rd magazines.
Here you have the option of 270, 30,06 and quick change barrel swaps. The action is not military grade but it has a good track record and
after the upgrades these rilfes become tack drivers vs. the original barrels.
I personally do not care about tacticool looks and status if I can have an accurate rifle. I didn't bring up the M1A because I had the socom
and could never make it shoot like other M1A owners. It doesn't matter what you throw at them the do not shoot consistently yet everything
is very expensive around them.
Again this might not be for everyone and perhaps I am speaking for me but just throwing this out there if nothing else to make sure people
consider all options.

 

[ranger_rick]

some good ideas

i do own a saiga 100 in .308.

plus a garand tanker in .308 (purchased from the "garand guy")