Mandatory Antler Restriction

[MothMan]

Got this info in an email from the range I belong to. Thought I would pass it on. I have land in 7R so it looks it would effect me. I am not up on the reasons around this. Good or bad.

4) Antler Restrictions bill S04739 call to action:
At the last meeting

Bill Summary:
New York State Assembly | Bill Search and Legislative Information

New York Conservation Council (NYCC) memorandum of opposition:
http://www.nyscc.com/images/Mandatory_Antler_Restrictions.pdf

 

[MilesTeg]

You have to love the government.

 

[GOYABEAN]

We should be privileged to be allowed to even partake in king wild game that are only for the noblemen the rest of the peasants can only partake by paying extremely high licenses fees and following strict mandatory rules but if you're under 17 Years of age you're exempt so away

 

[Shoots100]

Say what you want, but I have seen the benefits of self imposed antler restrictions on the lands I've been hunting for almost 40 years.
In my circle, only first time hunters are able to shoot small buck. After their first small buck taken, it was a minimum of six points afterwards.
Since the DEC implemented the same program around the lands I hunt the last few years, the quality of deer has improved on those lands too.
It always pissed me off going to the butcher shop opening week and seeing spike buck the size of dogs hanging there.
While it still happens, it' hasn't been as frequent since the imposed restrictions.

 

[Sweetyzfd]

No hunting.......no need for guns. Chip, chip, chip away at our rights

 

[1911guy]

I see no benefit to the antler restrictions. I hunt for the sport of the hunt and for the tasty meat. Except as an easy way to differentiate between bucks and does antlers are meaningless to me. Antler restrictions would be (are) just more impediments for the hunters.

 

[Yeti]

Think of it like minimum size limits on fish,you keep all the young/small ones and there wont be any big ones.

 

[dubleuhb]

Deer are dying of old age around here because of the "trophy hunters". Everything is posted now that the farmers found a new source of revenue in these guys willing to pay them.
Funny in a way because now the farmers need nuisance permits to keep the population in check.
Then when you hear that they let a couple guys come in and shoot 30 deer in a weekend for nuisance reasons and dig a hole and bury them........Great management there!
Deer are a renewable resource, shoot what you like, it should be the hunters choice.

 

[MilesTeg]

As I pointed out in the other thread these make absolutely no sense to me. There is zero need for the government to dictate what is morally right for someone to harvest on their land. To me hunting isn't a sport it's a way to feed my family. Let's do a quick visual on why the is stupid. Here's a photo of a couple sets of antlers of deer I have taken. I bet most of you would be happy to take these bucks. The one on the left wouldn't have been shot if the restrictions are in place because I didn't know it had a split brow on the left until it was down. The one on the right would be illegal and I would forever lose my right to hunt under these asinine laws.

Oh I forgot to mention the one on the left was aged at 7 years old and was told by the biologist that we should have shot him at 2 years old because of his poor genetics. But ultimately I was happy for the meat this animal gave me. I don't need the government telling me what to do. If you want a trophy then buy some land and manage it for that and leave us meat hunters alone and mind your own damn business.

 

[Yeti]

You will get the fluke buck like that,but if those young/inferior bucks are breeding the does thats what you will get.More larger/dominant bucks around will keep them from breeding the does and keeping the genetics purer.Ever see some of those freak monsters they are breeding now on fenced farms,all about biggest bucks breeding the does.

 

[MilesTeg]

Except I'd doesn't work that way when the population has too many does. Those fenced in heards work under the 50/50 ratio actually I think now they've sifted to 60/40. There's no way a dominant buck can cover enough does to push out inferior genetics. He can't be in more than one place at any given time.

You still haven't dressed the issue of why the government should be allowed to tell me what to take on my land. So you can have an easier time taking a trophy?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

As I pointed out in the other thread these make absolutely no sense to me. There is zero need for the government to dictate what is morally right for someone to harvest on their land. To me hunting isn't a sport it's a way to feed my family. Let's do a quick visual on why the is stupid. Here's a photo of a couple sets of antlers of deer I have taken. I bet most of you would be happy to take these bucks. The one on the left wouldn't have been shot if the restrictions are in place because I didn't know it had a split brow on the left until it was down. The one on the right would be illegal and I would forever lose my right to hunt under these asinine laws.
View attachment 10602
Oh I forgot to mention the one on the left was aged at 7 years old and was told by the biologist that we should have shot him at 2 years old because of his poor genetics. But ultimately I was happy for the meat this animal gave me. I don't need the government telling me what to do. If you want a trophy then buy some land and manage it for that and leave us meat hunters alone and mind your own damn business.

Both are legal. The tines are over 1 inch so they count. Both pictured bucks are gtg in AR areas

My area has had restrictions for years. No big deal. Plenty of dear around to shoot.

Get a doe tag if you are worried anout meat.

 

[MilesTeg]

Both are legal. The tines are over 1 inch so they count. Both pictured bucks are gtg in AR areas

My area has had restrictions for years. No big deal. Plenty of dear around to shoot.

Get a doe tag if you are worried anout meat.

If I'm not mistaken the new proposal requires at least 4 points one one side.

 

[dubleuhb]

Just because a younger "inferior" buck is breeding does doesn't mean it's bad genetics wise, if he lives a few more years and has the right nutrition, sure he will have a nice rack but his genetics are the same. It's all window dressing.
Many of these deer you see with a funky rack are the result of injury at some point, either recovering from an arrow or bullet wound or even a car strike.
I had a deer on some property I owned that the neighbor put an arrow through his neck recover. He couldn't lift his head up above his shoulders, he lived for 3 more seasons that I seen him. He was a decent 8 when he was wounded, every year after he had at least 8 points but his rack was a mess and he was still chasing does regardless, his genetics never changed but they would say to Cull him because he was inferior.

A spike can be a solid deer the next year, most likely he was a late born fawn causing his first rack to be just stunted.

As for those deer they are breeding in fenced areas, they get way more nutrition than your wild deer.
I live in farm country, the deer here are bigger, grow bigger racks quicker than the mostly wooded areas of the southern tier.

For the average weekend fudd it's discouraging when you have to pass up a deer because of some silly restrictions because some only care about horns.
I think as mentioned above all this does is make people say screw it and give up which I don't think they care, fewer hunters, fewer gun sales. This gets into politics, but then again to those that oppose us everything is political and it matters none to them if all the money spent on hunting stopped regardless of the fiscal damage as long as they get their way.

 

[MilesTeg]

Just because a younger "inferior" buck is breeding does doesn't mean it's bad genetics wise, if he lives a few more years and has the right nutrition, sure he will have a nice rack but his genetics are the same. It's all window dressing.
Many of these deer you see with a funky rack are the result of injury at some point, either recovering from an arrow or bullet wound or even a car strike.
I had a deer on some property I owned that the neighbor put an arrow through his neck recover. He couldn't lift his head up above his shoulders, he lived for 3 more seasons that I seen him. He was a decent 8 when he was wounded, every year after he had at least 8 points but his rack was a mess and he was still chasing does regardless, his genetics never changed but they would say to Cull him because he was inferior.

A spike can be a solid deer the next year, most likely he was a late born fawn causing his first rack to be just stunted.

As for those deer they are breeding in fenced areas, they get way more nutrition than your wild deer.
I live in farm country, the deer here are bigger, grow bigger racks quicker than the mostly wooded areas of the southern tier.

For the average weekend fudd it's discouraging when you have to pass up a deer because of some silly restrictions because some only care about horns.
I think as mentioned above all this does is make people say screw it and give up which I don't think they care, fewer hunters, fewer gun sales. This gets into politics, but then again to those that oppose us everything is political and it matters none to them if all the money spent on hunting stopped regardless of the fiscal damage as long as they get their way.

I agree genetics don't 100% dictate antler size. But with your give scenario why didn't you harvest that injured buck at the next opportunity? If that happened on our hill we would have tried to take him just for meat knowing he was never going to develop more. Also your scenario pushes my point farther. You guys oboe more about what's going on on your land better than the government. It shouldn't be their choice it should be yours to manage. You guys choose to let him live I'm OK with that even though that goes against what we would have done.

 

[dubleuhb]

I agree genetics don't 100% dictate antler size. But with your give scenario why didn't you harvest that injured buck at the next opportunity? If that happened on our hill we would have tried to take him just for meat knowing he was never going to develop more. Also your scenario pushes my point farther. You guys oboe more about what's going on on your land better than the government. It shouldn't be their choice it should be yours to manage. You guys choose to let him live I'm OK with that even though that goes against what we would have done.

Never had the opportunity to take him.
The closest I came was he was in large fallow field with a couple does. I set out to stalk him but funny thing was him no being able to put his head up I never found him in the goldenrod. He was right in front of me, maybe 30 yards, all I could see was the backs of three deer, they snuck off without a shot before I could figure out who was who.

 

[MilesTeg]

Never had the opportunity to take him.
The closest I came was he was in large fallow field with a couple does. I set out to stalk him but funny thing was him no being able to put his head up I never found him in the goldenrod. He was right in front of me, maybe 30 yards, all I could see was the backs of three deer, they snuck off without a shot before I could figure out who was who.

That's why it's called hunting nothing is guaranteed.

 

[FrankenCub]

To see anything around here of 8pts or better is rare. If they go ahead with this I may as well not hunt if I don't get doe tags.

 

[Robin]

That's why it's called hunting nothing is guaranteed.

Exactly! Thats why its not called shopping. Though the license format does look like a shopping list.
Robin

 

[Eddie Gunks]

If I'm not mistaken the new proposal requires at least 4 points one one side.

Ok

Around here it was 3 on one side

 

[thegatman]

What about "Hunt and Release"? Would that work? LOL

 

[NirvanaFan]

You will get the fluke buck like that,but if those young/inferior bucks are breeding the does thats what you will get.More larger/dominant bucks around will keep them from breeding the does and keeping the genetics purer.Ever see some of those freak monsters they are breeding now on fenced farms,all about biggest bucks breeding the does.

That's one of my issues with antler restrictions. There is no way to get those inferior genetics out of the gene pool. If a small racked, but mature, buck walks by, he won't be legal to shoot. He will keep breeding does since there are too many does to go around. We know there are too many does to go around because they all aren't bred during the first rut. The larger/dominant bucks do not totally stop young bucks from breeding does.

This will result in less deer being shot, especially for the casual hunter. That's the exact opposite of what the DEC wants. The deer population is too high in most of the western half of the state.

It doesn't matter if you're pro or anti antler restrictions. This is NOT something that the politicians should be deciding. The DEC should be deciding this.

 

[Robin]

What about "Hunt and Release"? Would that work? LOL

Hunt,
Release,
Robin

 

[wizrd]

So, when a bunch of anti-hunting legislators in Albany decide that a 16 point buck needs to have double-drop tines to be a 'takeable' deer, we're still gonna all be for the restrictions?....just wondering!

 

[diggs223]

been told by a hunter ed instructor issue dead for now