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Blimey

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Drinkthekoolaid said:
At what point does being unprovoked punched Justify using deadly force to defend yourself?
Click to expand...
Morally I think if a perfectly innocent person is positive they are about to be punched in the head and have no way out I have no problem whatsoever with them defending with their gun.

The problem is in court "He couldn't take a punch and had to get his gun?!" etc. etc.

Like you said, one hit you're out. You can die. Has happened, does happen. Not very uncommon. Can kill you, or give you a brain injury, or knock your head onto concrete, etc.
 
Criticalt

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masterswimmer said:
I get it. So with a video as evidence, albeit no audio, we still can't pinpoint a justifiable time to draw and fire.

This guy was in a virtually no win situation.

It would help to know where this took place. If the guy put himself into a bad situation by isolating himself in a deserted area (looked urban but who knows) and was suddenly surrounded then his situational awareness was zero. If he was in an area that was bustling with foot traffic then he probably felt more secure.

Either way there was obviously no reason he should have to be concerned with his safety. But that's society today. He needed to unbury his face from his phone and observe.
Click to expand...
Im pretty sure after the strong armed robbery and one punch, you can draw your weapon to protect yourself.
Again, we would have to know the laws in Minnesota where this happened.
In California he would be in trouble for shooting, in Arizona, he would get a medal.
Again, you can use DF if you are in fear for your life OR in fear of serious bodily injury. And, in most states you can use DF to prevent a robbery. He was robbed right in the beginning.
This has nothing to do with laws, prosecutors or judges.....it land firmly in the hands of a 12 person jury.....which your lawyer helps choose.
Hopefully there will be ONE logical person on that jury who sees the grave threat these animals were perpetrating.
Too many people have been killed second guessing whether to draw their gun or not.
These situations happen very, very quickly forcing you to make split second decicions.
Nobody on earth can tell you when YOU think your life is in danger.
The best you can do is train with your weapon, know local laws and above all else, dont die trying to decide if you are being killed.
 
Criticalt

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I will add
This guy had zero chance to get away after the initial attack. He was dazed from the punches and being relentlessly pursued.
He wasnt leaving until these thugs were done. So, there was no chance of retreat.
 
Jmac00

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Interesting thread after the day I had.

10 minutes into my day: Driving down Goodman street at 30 mph (the city speed limit, and I ain't in any hurry) some douche bag looks right at me from a 7-11 parking lot, and pulls out in front of me forcing me to lock up my brakes and nearly collide with on coming traffic and now he's going 15 mph???. Now, Im pretty use to 'city driving' and generally I don't let this shit bother me. So, Im at least two car lengths back, going all of 15mph, wtf? Now we come to a traffic light and the fuck-nut jams on his brakes about four car lengths before the car in front of him. Obviously, he was trying to get rear-ended, but Im to quick for him. I stop about 3 feet from his car He jumps out his car and starts screaming at me, "why you be like that bitch, you nearly hit me bitch, I gots my kid in the car" ( I can only assume he was trying to intimidate me or something)
So i roll down my window and yell back "let me get this straight, you cut me off, then drive at 15mph like a stupid fucking cocksucking asshole and some how your piss poor driving skills is my fault, you best get back in your car before your kid becomes fatherless" ( at which point I realized I should not have said the last part, but it's done)
He gets back in his car, immediately makes a U-turn and flips me off on the way by? I can only guess hes going back to try and trap some other poor sap?

later this afternoon, Im on Monroe Ave in the 'hood' looking at a store heating and cooling job. Im parked next to the sidewalk. Me and my engineer are in the back taking measurements and my truck alarm goes off. I go out front and there is about 20 to 30 kids in the 12 to 18 year old range waiting for the bus (apparently high school just let out)
A couple kids are leaning on my truck, with the alarm blaring. I turn the alarm off and POLITELY say, please don't touch or lean on the truck. I get the "you're a privileged white guy look" and a few scowls, but they stop leaning on my truck.
Then I realize Im surrounded by kids that could hurt me fairly quickly (just like the OP) I mosey back into the store and rearm my truck. So me my buddy are standing in the store front watching these 'kids', Im fairly certain this is the first time in my life I was really worried about being out numbered.

Then, on my way home I stop for gas. I pull up, put my card in and get set up to start pumping, at the same time a guy pulls up on the other side of the pump, gets out of his car and goes to put his card in and a caddy come screaming up to the pump, slams on her brakes and a very large lady gets out and starts screaming at the poor guy on the other side of the pump "i be wait'n for da pump for 10 minutes, You cut me off, you best move yo ass or we be have'n a problem"
The poor guy gets all flustered, put everything back, jumps in his car and drives off. The nice, very large lady pulls up and Im still pumping and laughing at her. She looks at me and says, "yo got some problem, motherfucker" well, I have just about have enough of being bullied by a bunch of stupid dipshits. I just look at her very calmly and say, very force-ably, but quietly, YOU FUCK WITH ME BITCH AND I WILL CALL IN THE JAPANESE WHALING FLEET AND HAVE THEM TAKE YOUR FAT ASS OUT"
At which point she looked positively shocked and just went about her business, I finished pumping gas and I left.

Im tired of being the White privileged guy. Im tired of people thinking that they have more rights than me. Im tired of being pushed around or intimidated. I treat everyone with respect and as polite as I have been brought up to be. But this bullshit is really starting to get on my nerves. Im to old for some punks to try and intimidate me.

I have decided to NOT do any business in the city. Im going to avoid going in the city as much as I can. Im really beginning to not like people in general.
Nothing good can come from dealing with city people. I can't wait to retire and GTFO of this shithole
 
GOPerfect

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Okay. I skipped over most of the video. Did not need to see the entire thing. I could have watched only the first three to five seconds and I would have had my opinion.

First, people are different. Demographics really mean something. They are of the utmost importance. I am not going to victim blame, however, the white guy put himself into a situation that he should have never been in. It is very important in this day to understand the mindset of people around you. Simple shit really!

The following is made on a personal level, nothing profession to this.

The mutt in the red shirt that threw the first punch, he would have been the first to get shot. After the punch, if I was unable to get away and I saw the remainder 7-9 mutts coming after me, I would have shot. Again, red shirt mutt; dead first. I promise you there were some in that group that had guns, promise. As soon as I shot, the turds would have pulled their poorly loaded guns, I would have shot them next.

The Justification of the Use of Force in New York is really not that difficult to understand:

S 35.00 Justification; a defense.
In any prosecution for an offense, justification, as defined in
sections 35.05 through 35.30, is a defense.

S 35.05 Justification; generally.
Unless otherwise limited by the ensuing provisions of this article
defining justifiable use of physical force, conduct which would
otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal when:
1. Such conduct is required or authorized by law or by a judicial
decree, or is performed by a public servant in the reasonable exercise
of his official powers, duties or functions; or
2. Such conduct is necessary as an emergency measure to avoid an
imminent public or private injury which is about to occur by reason of a
situation occasioned or developed through no fault of the actor, and
which is of such gravity that, according to ordinary standards of
intelligence and morality, the desirability and urgency of avoiding such
injury clearly outweigh the desirability of avoiding the injury sought
to be prevented by the statute defining the offense in issue. The
necessity and justifiably of such conduct may not rest upon
considerations pertaining only to the morality and advisability of the
statute, either in its general application or with respect to its
application to a particular class of cases arising thereunder. Whenever
evidence relating to the defense of justification under this subdivision
is offered by the defendant, the court shall rule as a matter of law
whether the claimed facts and circumstances would, if established,
constitute a defense.

S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she
reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself, herself or a
third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or
imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person,

Article 35 is our friend. No shit, for real.

If, really big if, I could not get my gun out at the onset, and these mutts we stomping me the way they were, Article 35 would have absolutely come into play.

Bottom line; many of those scum bag, inner city mutts would have been dead!!
 
GOPerfect

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Criticalt said:
I agree with you here.
But, the guy should be able to sit where he wants without being brutally beaten.
They could have talked shit, or made fun of him, but nope, they went straight to strong armed robbery and brutal violent assault.

If you and 6 of your friend were sitting around and a black guy walked over and sat down, would you guys beat him?
And remember, according to EVERYONE you are the violent racist.
The mentally it takes to become this violent makes these thugs unfit to be in society.
Click to expand...


What you typed, very different scenario, I think you know why...
 
GOPerfect

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Jmac00 said:
Interesting thread after the day I had.

10 minutes into my day: Driving down Goodman street at 30 mph (the city speed limit, and I ain't in any hurry) some douche bag looks right at me from a 7-11 parking lot, and pulls out in front of me forcing me to lock up my brakes and nearly collide with on coming traffic and now he's going 15 mph???. Now, Im pretty use to 'city driving' and generally I don't let this shit bother me. So, Im at least two car lengths back, going all of 15mph, wtf? Now we come to a traffic light and the fuck-nut jams on his brakes about four car lengths before the car in front of him. Obviously, he was trying to get rear-ended, but Im to quick for him. I stop about 3 feet from his car He jumps out his car and starts screaming at me, "why you be like that bitch, you nearly hit me bitch, I gots my kid in the car" ( I can only assume he was trying to intimidate me or something)
So i roll down my window and yell back "let me get this straight, you cut me off, then drive at 15mph like a stupid fucking cocksucking asshole and some how your piss poor driving skills is my fault, you best get back in your car before your kid becomes fatherless" ( at which point I realized I should not have said the last part, but it's done)
He gets back in his car, immediately makes a U-turn and flips me off on the way by? I can only guess hes going back to try and trap some other poor sap?

later this afternoon, Im on Monroe Ave in the 'hood' looking at a store heating and cooling job. Im parked next to the sidewalk. Me and my engineer are in the back taking measurements and my truck alarm goes off. I go out front and there is about 20 to 30 kids in the 12 to 18 year old range waiting for the bus (apparently high school just let out)
A couple kids are leaning on my truck, with the alarm blaring. I turn the alarm off and POLITELY say, please don't touch or lean on the truck. I get the "you're a privileged white guy look" and a few scowls, but they stop leaning on my truck.
Then I realize Im surrounded by kids that could hurt me fairly quickly (just like the OP) I mosey back into the store and rearm my truck. So me my buddy are standing in the store front watching these 'kids', Im fairly certain this is the first time in my life I was really worried about being out numbered.

Then, on my way home I stop for gas. I pull up, put my card in and get set up to start pumping, at the same time a guy pulls up on the other side of the pump, gets out of his car and goes to put his card in and a caddy come screaming up to the pump, slams on her brakes and a very large lady gets out and starts screaming at the poor guy on the other side of the pump "i be wait'n for da pump for 10 minutes, You cut me off, you best move yo ass or we be have'n a problem"
The poor guy gets all flustered, put everything back, jumps in his car and drives off. The nice, very large lady pulls up and Im still pumping and laughing at her. She looks at me and says, "yo got some problem, motherfucker" well, I have just about have enough of being bullied by a bunch of stupid dipshits. I just look at her very calmly and say, very force-ably, but quietly, YOU FUCK WITH ME BITCH AND I WILL CALL IN THE JAPANESE WHALING FLEET AND HAVE THEM TAKE YOUR FAT ASS OUT"
At which point she looked positively shocked and just went about her business, I finished pumping gas and I left.

Im tired of being the White privileged guy. Im tired of people thinking that they have more rights than me. Im tired of being pushed around or intimidated. I treat everyone with respect and as polite as I have been brought up to be. But this bullshit is really starting to get on my nerves. Im to old for some punks to try and intimidate me.

I have decided to NOT do any business in the city. Im going to avoid going in the city as much as I can. Im really beginning to not like people in general.
Nothing good can come from dealing with city people. I can't wait to retire and GTFO of this shithole
Click to expand...



There is a gas station that I go nearly everyday. I get free coffee and their breakfast sandwiches are freaken awesome.

A couple of miles down the road there is a project, you know, the type that poor scum live in. Yep, I have many opinions.

Anyway, barely a day goes by that one of these turds comes strolling though the lot begging people for change, bills or food. Some of them are really rag looking and many people in society are intimidated by them so they give in and produce some spare change or a dollar. When they approach me, I am simple; I reply with get the fuck away from me. If the leave, all is good. Sometimes, they get a bit closer and a bit braver with their demands, at that point, I look at them square in the eyes and tell them, if they do not leave me the fuck alone, I will kill them dead. So far, all have moved on!
 
dubleuhb

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Jmac00 said:
Interesting thread after the day I had.

10 minutes into my day: Driving down Goodman street at 30 mph (the city speed limit, and I ain't in any hurry) some douche bag looks right at me from a 7-11 parking lot, and pulls out in front of me forcing me to lock up my brakes and nearly collide with on coming traffic and now he's going 15 mph???. Now, Im pretty use to 'city driving' and generally I don't let this shit bother me. So, Im at least two car lengths back, going all of 15mph, wtf? Now we come to a traffic light and the fuck-nut jams on his brakes about four car lengths before the car in front of him. Obviously, he was trying to get rear-ended, but Im to quick for him. I stop about 3 feet from his car He jumps out his car and starts screaming at me, "why you be like that bitch, you nearly hit me bitch, I gots my kid in the car" ( I can only assume he was trying to intimidate me or something)
So i roll down my window and yell back "let me get this straight, you cut me off, then drive at 15mph like a stupid fucking cocksucking asshole and some how your piss poor driving skills is my fault, you best get back in your car before your kid becomes fatherless" ( at which point I realized I should not have said the last part, but it's done)
He gets back in his car, immediately makes a U-turn and flips me off on the way by? I can only guess hes going back to try and trap some other poor sap?

later this afternoon, Im on Monroe Ave in the 'hood' looking at a store heating and cooling job. Im parked next to the sidewalk. Me and my engineer are in the back taking measurements and my truck alarm goes off. I go out front and there is about 20 to 30 kids in the 12 to 18 year old range waiting for the bus (apparently high school just let out)
A couple kids are leaning on my truck, with the alarm blaring. I turn the alarm off and POLITELY say, please don't touch or lean on the truck. I get the "you're a privileged white guy look" and a few scowls, but they stop leaning on my truck.
Then I realize Im surrounded by kids that could hurt me fairly quickly (just like the OP) I mosey back into the store and rearm my truck. So me my buddy are standing in the store front watching these 'kids', Im fairly certain this is the first time in my life I was really worried about being out numbered.

Then, on my way home I stop for gas. I pull up, put my card in and get set up to start pumping, at the same time a guy pulls up on the other side of the pump, gets out of his car and goes to put his card in and a caddy come screaming up to the pump, slams on her brakes and a very large lady gets out and starts screaming at the poor guy on the other side of the pump "i be wait'n for da pump for 10 minutes, You cut me off, you best move yo ass or we be have'n a problem"
The poor guy gets all flustered, put everything back, jumps in his car and drives off. The nice, very large lady pulls up and Im still pumping and laughing at her. She looks at me and says, "yo got some problem, motherfucker" well, I have just about have enough of being bullied by a bunch of stupid dipshits. I just look at her very calmly and say, very force-ably, but quietly, YOU FUCK WITH ME BITCH AND I WILL CALL IN THE JAPANESE WHALING FLEET AND HAVE THEM TAKE YOUR FAT ASS OUT"
At which point she looked positively shocked and just went about her business, I finished pumping gas and I left.

Im tired of being the White privileged guy. Im tired of people thinking that they have more rights than me. Im tired of being pushed around or intimidated. I treat everyone with respect and as polite as I have been brought up to be. But this bullshit is really starting to get on my nerves. Im to old for some punks to try and intimidate me.

I have decided to NOT do any business in the city. Im going to avoid going in the city as much as I can. Im really beginning to not like people in general.
Nothing good can come from dealing with city people. I can't wait to retire and GTFO of this shithole
Click to expand...
Let it go cracker.
 
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