Muzzle device question

[96coal449]

Or tig welding. A fake FH can be tigged in place as in the example of an M1A.

Cut and crown would be easier. No fake FH/MBs available for the AR platforms. One would have to fill the holes with weld, grind smooth in and out, and then pin on. Finally finishing by spot welding the pin with tig weld...... don't forget the reparkarizing.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Silver

 

[96coal449]

Silver View attachment 61756

I liked your post but it is a no go. Can be removed with heat.

 

[GOYABEAN]

I liked your post but it is a no go. Can be removed with heat.

Anything can be removed with heat ! Is there a set temperature degree in the BS law stating it if not then

 

[96coal449]

BS act

FIFY

BTW weld cannot be removed with heat. It has to be cut or ground......

 

[togmaster]

No go......Heat will remove Red Loctite and epoxies are not considered permanent.

Your opinion. This has already been debated to death.

 

[meketrefe]

Fix magazune on an AR? Thats crazy.
I mean, if you ae going to use it of course and not for collection or show.

 

[Calculon]

There are options for faux flash hiders. I have used these several times:

Northern Gun Parts--High Quality Firearm Parts and Tools at Low Discount Prices! - Powered by Network Solutions.

Northern Gun Parts Quality Precision Cheap Discount Firearm Parts and Tools Proudly Made in the U.S.A. We specialize in Quality Flash hiders, and sight tools for AR, AR-15, M-16, M-14, M-1,SKS, AK-47,Free quotes for any product you need that we don't stock or sell on our store, contact us for...

northerngunparts.com

These were made specifically for NY so that when pinned/welded you can still remove gas block for service or replacement. The grooves/cuts don’t go all the way through thus for looks only.

 

[Acer-m14]

Your opinion. This has already been debated to death.

yep ..

 

[spat]

Okay, now I am at sea once again. With a fixed magazine and a barrel length over 16", is pinned and welded a legal requirement, federally?
Robin

16" barrel is a federal requirement for anything with a stock (or register it as an SBS or SBR).

If you have a shorter barrel you *can* add a permanently attached muzzle device that brings it up to 16" or more.

pinned and welded is the ATF approved method of "permanent".

 

[spat]

I liked your post but it is a no go. Can be removed with heat.

According to the ATF themselves that is GTG.

"Permanent methods of
attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver
soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. "

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download

 

[Robin]

Honestly, with all the answers I am more confused the I was before I started. I guess the best way to clear it up would be to lay out what I am doing specifically so a specific definitive answer can be achieved, but while exercising my right to free speech, I am afraid I may inadvertently reveal some other unintended felonious violation of an unconstitutional law that is unique to The New York Soviet Socialist Republic with the political intention of affecting and harassing only the law abiding gun owner who, potentially is no longer law abiding, not be intent, not by constitutional fact, but by residence in NYSSR. So I guess one way or another, they are winning.
Robin

 

[togmaster]

@Robin it's clear in UNSAFE that a muzzle device is a no go for semi auto in the republic of new yorkistan. It's the way you attach a faux flash hider or a thread cap that is debatable. The only 100% sure way to go is not have threads on the barrel.

 

[meketrefe]

The horse beating fest again! Lol
Stag, Rockriver, and others sold factory NY compliant ARs with devices just pinned. These are all over and it is an axepted method.
When BS safe came this was confirmed by NYS in their education sessions given by Mike Green and Mr. Hogan from NYSP.
It is recorded on video and Scope has all the Q&As on record.
The welding ritual came from the sunset federal ban and extended SBR barrels following ATF guidelines.
For a standard AR with a 16" barrel no need.to follow the welding ritual. It is an absurd practice.
These are facts not opinions.

 

[kev74]

Honestly, with all the answers I am more confused the I was before I started. I guess the best way to clear it up would be to lay out what I am doing specifically so a specific definitive answer can be achieved, but while exercising my right to free speech, I am afraid I may inadvertently reveal some other unintended felonious violation of an unconstitutional law that is unique to The New York Soviet Socialist Republic with the political intention of affecting and harassing only the law abiding gun owner who, potentially is no longer law abiding, not be intent, not by constitutional fact, but by residence in NYSSR. So I guess one way or another, they are winning.
Robin

Better off just sticking with a slingshot. But not one with a wrist brace, 'cause those are banned.

 

[Robin]

Maybe I should stay with what I know. Instead of one gun that shoots thirty rounds, I'll keep my thirty guns that shoot one round. Such a dangerous man, I see red flags in my future, only they have a hammer and sickle on them with Cyrillic writing that I think spells out Excelsior. They're winning.
Robin

 

[@thewheels]

The horse beating fest again! Lol
Stag, Rockriver, and others sold factory NY compliant ARs with devices just pinned. These are all over and it is an axepted method.
When BS safe came this was confirmed by NYS in their education sessions given by Mike Green and Mr. Hogan from NYSP.
It is recorded on video and Scope has all the Q&As on record.
The welding ritual came from the sunset federal ban and extended SBR barrels following ATF guidelines.
For a standard AR with a 16" barrel no need.to follow the welding ritual. It is an absurd practice.
These are facts not opinions.

So...you're saying pinning on a thread protector will suffice?

 

[96coal449]

Your opinion. This has already been debated to death.

According to the ATF themselves that is GTG.

"Permanent methods of
attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver
soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. "

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download

The horse beating fest again! Lol
Stag, Rockriver, and others sold factory NY compliant ARs with devices just pinned. These are all over and it is an axepted method.
When BS safe came this was confirmed by NYS in their education sessions given by Mike Green and Mr. Hogan from NYSP.
It is recorded on video and Scope has all the Q&As on record.
The welding ritual came from the sunset federal ban and extended SBR barrels following ATF guidelines.
For a standard AR with a 16" barrel no need.to follow the welding ritual. It is an absurd practice.
These are facts not opinions.

I was told by my LGS when they asked SP, anything easily removable isn't GTG.
So now I'm more confused as fuck.
At the same fuck token ......IDGAF anymore of all this BS. Won't be long and muskets will not be GTG either.

 

[@thewheels]

anything easily removable isn't GTG.

Well that's as clear as mud.

Rocksett can handle a lot of heat. More than any heat gun can put out. And some guys can't get a muzzle device off after using it even after soaking the part in boiling water.

JB Weld needs 650 degrees sustained in order to loosen up. That's not easily removed without a torch and lots of patience.

Per the Feds, silver solder should handle 1100 plus? Same as above?

It does make your head spin trying to figure out how to abide by the tyranny of NY.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Well that's as clear as mud.

Rocksett can handle a lot of heat. More than any heat gun can put out. And some guys can't get a muzzle device off after using it even after soaking the part in boiling water.

JB Weld needs 650 degrees sustained in order to loosen up. That's not easily removed without a torch and lots of patience.

Per the Feds, silver solder should handle 1100 plus? Same as above?

It does make your head spin trying to figure out how to abide by the tyranny of NY.

Especially when a sling shot with a wrist support is a No Go but one without support is Good to Go

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Robin

There are no approved methods in NYS listed in the law giving you instruction on how to pin a device on the barrel just like there are no approved methods of pinning the magazine in the law. If you do it, you have to do it in a method that you are comfortable with. Many different methods were used and sold in the past by manufacturers and FFL’s who built them. That doesn’t mean that whatever methods they used were legal as per the law. I mean we had one FFL here on this forum who used to sell barrels with just glue.

With that said, the ATF does have 2 approved methods. Silver solder and welding. Whether you go the ATF method for your own peace of mind, or listen to internet commandos that just use glue or 2 pins, it’s all up to you.

What is definite is that thread caps, fake muzzle devices, and flash cans are currently the only legal things you can pin to a barrel. They are legal only because they aren’t listed in the law. Flash suppressors, muzzle brakes, and compensators are not legal if your rifle is semi auto.

Me personally, I would not bother with pinning one of those devices to a barrel. It’s just easier to buy a 16 inch non threaded barrel or buy a longer barrel and cut and crown it to 16 inches if you want to be sure to be legal.

Whatever you do, the final barrel length must be a minimum of 16 inches long to be legal.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[@thewheels]

And we're back to cutting and crowning.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The horse beating fest again! Lol
Stag, Rockriver, and others sold factory NY compliant ARs with devices just pinned. These are all over and it is an axepted method.
When BS safe came this was confirmed by NYS in their education sessions given by Mike Green and Mr. Hogan from NYSP.
It is recorded on video and Scope has all the Q&As on record.
The welding ritual came from the sunset federal ban and extended SBR barrels following ATF guidelines.
For a standard AR with a 16" barrel no need.to follow the welding ritual. It is an absurd practice.
These are facts not opinions.

And some just used glue with no pins. That doesn’t mean that they are legal. All it means is that no one challenged them on it in a court of law because no one got arrested. And no one got arrested for it because cops aren’t using tools and heat to see if they can remove muzzle devices at car stops.

As per the ATF themselves, there are only 2 approved methods. These are facts and not opinions.

 

[@thewheels]

And some just used glue with no pins. That doesn’t mean that they are legal. All it means is that no one challenged them on it in a court of law because no one got arrested.

As per the ATF themselves, there are only 2 approved methods.

View attachment 61806

Seam and tack welds can be easily cut with a dremel? And last I knew NY doesn't even follow the federal definition of a firearm.

 

[96coal449]

Seam and tack welds can be easily cut with a dremel? And last I knew NY doesn't even follow the federal definition of a firearm.

Agreed .....funny thing is I can easily use a dremel to remove the fake off my M1A.
It would destroy it in the process though.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Seam and tack welds can be easily cut with a dremel? And last I knew NY doesn't even follow the federal definition of a firearm.

Correct. Even the ATF method isn’t fool proof for NYS. But you do have a leg to stand on if in a court of law if the jury buys the ATF methods because when 2 laws conflict one another, the federal law supercedes it as per the Supremacy Clause.

 

[BDinPutnam]

You can, of course, get featureless barrels and not have to worry about cut/crown.

 

[Robin]

I was thinking of putting this, pinned and welded,

on a Thordsen equipped AR so I could use a removable magazine. I have used it on a fixed AR. If it can't be done it can't be done. I will just fix the magazine and screw it on. My hearing was badly damaged years ago and moving all that concussion down range makes a big difference with me. FUNY!
Thank you all!
Robin

 

[@thewheels]

You can, of course, get featureless barrels and not have to worry about cut/crown.

Right. There is that option but if you're buying a complete upper off the shelf, you've got slim pickings unless it's a 24 inch varmint type.
Tough luck tracking down an 18 inch 350 Legend or 6.8 upper without threads lately.

 

[meketrefe]

And some just used glue with no pins. That doesn’t mean that they are legal. All it means is that no one challenged them on it in a court of law because no one got arrested. And no one got arrested for it because cops aren’t using tools and heat to see if they can remove muzzle devices at car stops.

As per the ATF themselves, there are only 2 approved methods. These are facts and not opinions.

View attachment 61806

That atf is from 1998 and result of the method adopted during the federal ban.
The ny ban prior to ny safe doesnt mention anything about welds.
This cannot be challenged because they will loose the argument as all customers have to do is to pull out the sales receipt from the firearm that was legally sold at ny stores with the muzzle just pinned. These passed inspection by the ATF when they do recounts and inventory. Not only that we have NYSP answers on video recorded. So they cannot forbid something that was already approved and sold.

How many times we have to explain this as it was explained by actual FFLs in these very same forums.

The same people who actually sold them legaly, did the inspections with the ATF and had NYS local PD and sheriff folks both on and off duty buying those rifles and ammo and whatever else.

Sadly most FFLs here abandoned ship perhaps due to this endless horse beating nonsense. Some others sadly passed already.

@Eddie Gunks when you had the FFL did you get inventory of any of those stag and RRA, etc that had the brake just pinned?
They had them at gander, beikirchs, etc.. terry had a couple too.

Perhaps we hear from some other current or past FFLs who know how this actualy works.