National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill Introduced

[Gunright]

"
On January 3–the first day of the 115th Congress–Representative Richard Hudson (R-NC-8) introduced national concealed carry reciprocity legislation."

GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of New Congress - Breitbart
Link to summary of bill: Congressman Richard Hudson : Press Releases : Hudson Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill

ETA:
One pager: https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 1-pager.pdf

ETA:
FAQ: https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 QA.pdf

 

[MilesTeg]

If this passes I wonder how they handle standard capacity magazines.

 

[UltraT]

How would this affect new yorkers with restricted permits?

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Another problem that I see with this is that it does not prevent situations like we have here in NY, - namely the fact that our upstate permits are not valid in NYC.

The bill certainly has some good points, but it needs to allow everybody to carry across the entirety of every state.

 

[enforcer30]

Aren't bills similar to this introduced every year and end up rotting away in the "to do" pile?

 

[UltraT]

You be able to carry unrestricted in any state except your own.

Wow, strange but cool.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I may be wrong about some things. My responses above were based on a previous bill. Here is the current bill. Because of this, I will delete my responses that we based on a previous bill.

 

[Saltwater60]

Another problem that I see with this is that it does not prevent situations like we have here in NY, - namely the fact that our upstate permits are not valid in NYC.

The bill certainly has some good points, but it needs to allow everybody to carry across the entirety of every state.

If it passes I can't see how they could keep us with our guns out of NYC. If you can go anywhere with it how can they restrict you? I know it's new yorkistan so the king will do as he pleases, but I don't see how it would hold up in court.

 

[Gunright]

Aren't bills similar to this introduced every year and end up rotting away in the "to do" pile?

Yes, but the difference is a R house, R Senate, and R President. The last time this was true was 2001. Hopefully we can have better results, but you are right there are still plenty of problems in getting this passed.

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Celt, @VietnamEraVet, @MilesTeg, what do you make of this clause?

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm;

To me that means that I can carry in any state. "Any State" includes my own. Right? NYC, Restricted? I may be reaching but "any" means "any".

Or this clause.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

Does that mean that magazines and ammunition cannot be restricted for those who fall under the protections of this act?

 

[EMSBronco]

If it doesn't help us in NYC, we can all go to NJ (and carry concealed, wow!), then enter NYC, it becomes interstate travel and invokes this law.
Could this also help in the state parks?
Thinking of NJ, don't they have restrictions on hollow point? How would that be handled under this law?

Where's a lawyer when you need one?

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Realistically, how long would this take to get passed?

 

[Acer-m14]

I'd rather see constitutional carry .. I dont need damn permit .. just attach it the bill to a dem pay raise bill or to something they want ..

 

[VietnamEraVet]

@Celt, @VietnamEraVet, @MilesTeg, what do you make of this clause?

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm;

To me that means that I can carry in any state. "Any State" includes my own. Right? NYC, Restricted? I may be reaching but "any" means "any".

Or this clause.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

Does that mean that magazines and ammunition cannot be restricted for those who fall under the protections of this act?

It is stuff like this that makes me wish I had gone to law school. As I understand it, I think it basically says that CCW holders would have to obey the gun laws of the state they are traveling to. And that seems problematic to me. Think about it,- 50 states, each with their own laws that can trip up unsuspecting travelers,- especially with local laws and regulations.

Consider driver license reciprocity: sure, your license is good in all 50 states, but, you have to follow the specific laws in those states. So, think about that. Maybe that other state outlaws turning right on red, or driving over a certain speed, or some other variation from your home state. OK, seems like no big deal, right? I mean we can all follow street signs.

But now consider national CCW reciprocity. If every state can keep enforcing their own state or local laws, it has the potential to become an insane nightmare for travelers.

Seriously, think about it. You could be completely screwed and arrested for:
- having hollow point ammo in NJ
-carrying at a parade in NC
-failing to inform an LEO if stopped in a state that requires it, unlike your home state
- carrying in NYC

I absolutely believe that the anti gunners in states like NY,NJ,CA,MD, and a few other states will create havoc over these kinds of issues if national concealed carry is passed, if the law does not explicitly ban that type of potential BS.

After all, to most of us, the 2nd Amendment is perfectly clear, and yet, here we are 200 years later with assholes still causing problems over its' seemingly clear wording.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I'd rather see constitutional carry .. I dont need damn permit .. just attach it the bill to a dem pay raise bill or to something they want ..

This is EXACTLY what needs to happen. To pass these kinds of bills, they will need to be attached to other legislation that they absolutely CANNOT stop.

 

[4excal]

After all, to most of us, the 2nd Amendment is perfectly clear, and yet, here we are 200 years later with assholes still causing problems over its' seemingly clear wording.

Only thing perfectly clear is that it's unclear. I know we're not a militia and I know you don't stand up for our rights for free state, what we do get is this permission to carry a card that says every now and then we could pay money to go shoot a firearm is at a club

 

[nfernaays]

Despite the potential BS, this is a good thing. I think as permit holders (already going through the hassle to get a permit in NY) can handle doing our due diligence to make sure we are legal where we may travel. The nice thing is that we can once again travel and feel safe.

 

[Phauxtoe]

wait and you will Hear a Collective twist of Liberal Panties!

 

[Gunright]

I think the biggest part of the proposal is the parts is:

1.Put the burden of proof clearly on the state to show that an individual carrying concealed did not
comply with the law, thus protecting law abiding gun owners from onerous civil suits;

2. Provide legal protections against states that violate the intent of this bill, making attorney’s fees and
damages available to victorious plaintiffs in civil suits, as well as to defendants who prevail in criminal
cases;

A few cases against the libtard states with big money payouts will move things in the right direction. Is it constitutional carry (which I would rather have)? No, but we need to move things in the right direction, and this is a start even if it doesn't benefit me directly.

 

[fartgamer]

Not perfect but a move in the right direction, imo. If it passes you'd better know the gun laws in any state you might visit, ie duty to inform LE, private businesses displaying gun buster signs(some mean nothing, others constitute trespassing), rules regarding establishments that serve alcohol, etc.
Constitutional carry has zero chance, imo, many states make money off the issuance of licenses and are not giving that up.
My .02

 

[nfernaays]

Constitutional Carry can only come if National Reciprocity passes!

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Celt, @VietnamEraVet, @MilesTeg, what do you make of this clause?

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm;

To me that means that I can carry in any state. "Any State" includes my own. Right? NYC, Restricted? I may be reaching but "any" means "any".

Or this clause.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

Does that mean that magazines and ammunition cannot be restricted for those who fall under the protections of this act?

There's another version floating around. This one specifically says that the protections are for any state excluding your own state and they have omitted the definition of gun to be the gun itself, the magazines, and the ammunition that was contained in the other bill.

I'm not sure which one is the one being voted on.

Here is the bill I found with those omissions.

 

[4excal]

So many will claim the ole "I didn't know, I'm sorry I thought it meant everywhere all the same" cause that's what I'll be saying. Just like when I carry in the 5 boroughs and all government buildings and schools..never had an issue yet in 23 years

Not perfect but a move in the right direction, imo. If it passes you'd better know the gun laws in any state you might visit, ie duty to inform LE, private businesses displaying gun buster signs(some mean nothing, others constitute trespassing), rules regarding establishments that serve alcohol, etc.
Constitutional carry has zero chance, imo, many states make money off the issuance of licenses and are not giving that up.
My .02

 

[MilesTeg]

@Celt, @VietnamEraVet, @MilesTeg, what do you make of this clause?

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm;

To me that means that I can carry in any state. "Any State" includes my own. Right? NYC, Restricted? I may be reaching but "any" means "any".

Or this clause.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

Does that mean that magazines and ammunition cannot be restricted for those who fall under the protections of this act?

I'm not sure how to interpret this one. I will look more at theses type of things when they pass. Wording could be greatly changed in order to get the bill signed. I think the magazine issue will become a big deal because for most of real America magazine limits aren't a known issue. I bet the majority of them don't even know some states regulate them.

 

[Celt]

@Celt, @VietnamEraVet, @MilesTeg, what do you make of this clause?

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm;

To me that means that I can carry in any state. "Any State" includes my own. Right? NYC, Restricted? I may be reaching but "any" means "any".

Or this clause.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

Does that mean that magazines and ammunition cannot be restricted for those who fall under the protections of this act?

Id like to give a more detailed and thoughtful response but im pretty busy with work.. however, in giving a very quick read of the bill it appears that we would be permitted to carry in nyc (i sure freaking hope so). im a little torn as this may set a precedent that permitting on the 2a is acceptable where id really rather see national constitutional carry, but i honestly dont see much hope for that compared to this. if we can use this as a stepping stone, and then push for national constitutional carry then id accept this as a start.

my other concern is that how does this handle "may issue" states. for instance, in our home state of ny i have a restricted carry license, but someone from out of state with an unrestricted permit can carry unrestricted here when i cant. there needs to be some sort of verbiage to force all states to be shall issue if we are going to have national reciprocity.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Id like to give a more detailed and thoughtful response but im pretty busy with work.. however, in giving a very quick read of the bill it appears that we would be permitted to carry in nyc (i sure freaking hope so). im a little torn as this may set a precedent that permitting on the 2a is acceptable where id really rather see national constitutional carry, but i honestly dont see much hope for that compared to this. if we can use this as a stepping stone, and then push for national constitutional carry then id accept this as a start.

my other concern is that how does this handle "may issue" states. for instance, in our home state of ny i have a restricted carry license, but someone from out of state with an unrestricted permit can carry unrestricted here when i cant. there needs to be some sort of verbiage to force all states to be shall issue if we are going to have national reciprocity.

There is another bill floating around that I linked above which is the exact bill with the addition of the words," other than the state of residence of the person."

I suspect this is the bill being voted on.

 

[Phazer]

@Celt, @VietnamEraVet, @MilesTeg, what do you make of this clause?

‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that— ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the State may apply for a license or permit to carry a concealed firearm;

To me that means that I can carry in any state. "Any State" includes my own. Right? NYC, Restricted? I may be reaching but "any" means "any".

Or this clause.

‘‘(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

Does that mean that magazines and ammunition cannot be restricted for those who fall under the protections of this act?

and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,​

So? We will still live in a "may issue" state that will continue to require a "good reason" for being issued a New York State carry permit. In the end, out-of-state visitors with carry permits from their own states will be able to carry in New York State while New York tax-paying citizens will not.

 

[Marine Cpl]

and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,​

So? We will still live in a "may issue" state that will continue to require a "good reason" for being issued a New York State carry permit. In the end, out-of-state visitors with carry permits from their own states will be able to carry in New York State while New York tax-paying citizens will not.

Yep.

 

[Celt]

and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,​

So? We will still live in a "may issue" state that will continue to require a "good reason" for being issued a New York State carry permit. In the end, out-of-state visitors with carry permits from their own states will be able to carry in New York State while New York tax-paying citizens will not.

thats what im afraid of. however, since the restrictions we have are administrative only its not as large of a concern, but it would still suck that out of staters could carry freely while we could not.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

thats what im afraid of. however, since the restrictions we have are administrative only its not as large of a concern, but it would still suck that out of staters could carry freely while we could not.

I like that our community is at least questioning this stuff. Hopefully, any final bill fixes these potential issues. Seems as though a bill that would force the "may issue" states, (I think there are about 7 of them, NY included?) to allow all persons to carry unrestricted would be the most desirable approach for a national reciprocity bill. Of course, I would expect Schumer and all of the other anti's (including those at the state and local levels) to scream like stuck pigs being tortured.

Other than that, if I have a PA license in addition to my NY CCW, I wonder how that might allow me to carry in places like NYC, - particularly if out of state residents were allowed to carry there while they told us that we could not?