Need a little advice for sighting / accuracy issue at the range today

[meketrefe]

I wondered if the flash hider wasn't on properly, olthe wrong diameter, or the barrel threads aren't concentric.

I said to check on this about dozen posts ago. So take it out for testing.
If this is a mil spec flashhider that has been reamed I wonder how the rest of the barrel was cut and if it was
even indexed from the bore before cutting and profiling and threading.
Including if the threads are 1/2" that that is less than ideal.
The standard 1/2" threads are not even the best choice for a 22 caliber so imagine for a 35 bore.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I wondered if the flash hider wasn't on properly, olthe wrong diameter, or the barrel threads aren't concentric.

Thats definitely the direction I'm going with this too.

I wasn't aware they made A2 flash hiders with the thread pitch for 9mm barrels (of course there are hundreds if not 1,000s of muzzle devices out there).

Jack, do you know who made the barrel?

 

[JackNeat]

I am pretty confident I am not qualified to recognize what could be a defect or issue with the barrel or muzzle device. I might bring it to my local gunsmith for help on examining before I press on with this.

@meketrefe - so you are asking if I have fired the rifle with the flash hider removed? no, haven't. I can though if that might help figure this out.

I am hoping DJS responds since they built the rifle and might offer to take a look at it for me.

 

[JackNeat]

Thats definitely the direction I'm going with this too.

I wasn't aware they made A2 flash hiders with the thread pitch for 9mm barrels (of course there are hundreds if not 1,000s of muzzle devices out there).

Jack, do you know who made the barrel?

I am going down now to clean the rifle and I'll take the front hand guard off to see what is stamped on the barrel.

 

[meketrefe]

I am pretty confident I am not qualified to recognize what could be a defect or issue with the barrel or muzzle device. I might bring it to my local gunsmith for help on examining before I press on with this.

@meketrefe - so you are asking if I have fired the rifle with the flash hider removed? no, haven't. I can though if that might help figure this out.

I am hoping DJS responds since they built the rifle and might offer to take a look at it for me.

Yes do that take it off and try it this way.

The thickness of the wall between the bore and the outside of the muzzle should be consistent and although
it is hard to stop any run out you take a look first. Also you should see the end of the rifling and some sort
of uniform and even finishing. After cleaning the rifling, the finishing of the muzzle and the concetricity
should all look uniform and fee of defects , marks or burrs. if you have calipers, even not ideal take some
measures going around from the grooves to the radius and perhaps share some close pics and also of the
flash hider. If the flash hider is off or not reamed properly or custom made but not well for a pistol, or even the slight
run out that causes the bullet to even slightly brush the hider will destabilized the projectile and make
a mess accuracy wise.



I understand you might not be able to measure w/o micrometers and other tools but clean the bore and then look at it using
a piece of white paper on the breach end with plenty of light on the side and looking from the bore you should see a clean and uniform
bore with its rifling and w/o defects. Don't try to use a flash light as this is too much light and will only blind you.


with the upper in a proper vise also make sure while to try to move/jiggle the barrel it feels solid as a one piece rod.

This is the strongest and safest way to hold an AR15 upper in a vise to work on it. Not too tight, just so it is firm...



If you jiggle the barrel the barrel should feel like it is welded to the upper otherwise you have a loose barrel or something else is really off.

if you got a new red dot or something also try a scope you are known to work and doesn't walk on you.

These things are resolved by elimination and why one needs to go back and review all variables.

Good luck.

 

[dwa12479]

Fragging and keyholing at 15 yds, yikes. Ill 2nd and 3rd the suggestions to pull that birdcage off and see what happens.

 

[meketrefe]

Also, when you get the flash-hider off send us some close pics if you want.
you should be able to take a full 9mm round (including the casing) and pass it through the inside
of the hider that will indicate there are some clearances for the bullet since the bullet is .356 and
the rim .391-392. This will give a clearance of 392-356=36 .. 36/2 = 18 thousands of an inch on each side.
So that is why we need to assure both the muzzle/threads and hider are properly indexed to the center
of the bore (concentric and uniform).
If the whole round doesn't fit through the hider then the 18thousands might be even less and whatever
is left can create interference for the bullet with even a small run out on the cutting of the barrel and/or threads.

Easy to test but just shooting w the muzzle device removed.

But again do not discard the other factors above.

 

[Robin]

I don't see where your bullets are fragmenting, for each bullet you seem to have a clean hole and a hole that is somewhat distorted but not much. You said 15 yards? Like I said before, I would disassemble a couple rounds of the ammo and see what's in there.
Robin

 

[JackNeat]

View attachment 84848


I don't see where your bullets are fragmenting, for each bullet you seem to have a clean hole and a hole that is somewhat distorted but not much. You said 15 yards? Like I said before, I would disassemble a couple rounds of the ammo and see what's in there.
Robin

ahhh.. but what if I told you those 6 holes were made by 3 bullets?

 

[fnfalguy]

Anyone shooting in the lanes next to you? Robin brings up a good point on the clean cuts of the holes.

 

[meketrefe]

ahhh.. but what if I told you those 6 holes were made by 3 bullets?

That you got confused and have been shooting a shotgun?

seriously take the muzzle device off and show us how you can thread a round through it.

 

[JackNeat]

I actually just got back from DJS in Connecticut. There was a casting error on the flash hider and while it wasn’t evident from looking at it while attached to the barrel they picked up on it in their shop and they ended up drilling it out. Said it should be good to go and no more buckshot patterning... gave me an extra mag and T shirt and apologized.

Tomorrow I will hit Master Class at opening and see what I have been “missing”.

So it sounds like you guys were right in possible diagnosis. I have to thank you all for taking so much time... especially @meketrefe for the extended info and Picts. I did clean the gun up good before and checked the barrel but before I got to the muzzle, DJS messaged me and said come by.

I hope to post some good shots of paper tomorrow after my range time

 

[JackNeat]

Anyone shooting in the lanes next to you? Robin brings up a good point on the clean cuts of the holes.

nope.. and I even called the range officer over. He watched as I shot those 3 bullets and he concurred that each time I pulled the trigger 2 holes appeared in my paper

 

[meketrefe]

I hope to post some good shots of paper tomorrow after my range time

No Problem. Thanks. Glad you had a positive response yet I am worried bout the "they drilled it out".
It doesn't look like a decent fix or reasonable explanation. They used the wrong part, the casting is a bs explanation
and also the device should be put on a lathe, indexed and then reamed. Was the problem the hider alone or the bore has run out?
"drilling out" with a drill might fix the problem but it doesn't look like a professional job if that is what they did.
Also those std. hiders parts are lower quality steel and they rust quickly unless they are parkerized or something after any type of
machining.

 

[JackNeat]

It was the flash hider.. I will try to get a decent picture but I just have the camera on my phone/tablet. FWIW.. I used the term drilled out. They did say the casting was bad.. tomorrow I’ll pop the flash hider off and snap a picture of it and the barrel end.

 

[meketrefe]

It was the flash hider.. I will try to get a decent picture but I just have the camera on my phone/tablet. FWIW.. I used the term drilled out. They did say the casting was bad.. tomorrow I’ll pop the flash hider off and snap a picture of it and the barrel end.

I am not saying this was done in bad faith or anything but a good intention doesn't mean a good job.
"the casting was bad" doesn't make much sense. It seems they used the wrong part. It is not the first or 2nd time this mistake is done,
something easy to catch by a routine high level inspection before selling the firearm.
Once I got a barrel from the black hole weaponry that had run out so bad the bullets would brush the muzzle brake upon exit
even when the brake was 100% fine for the caliber at hand. The result was keyholeing all over.
It took them forever and never fixed the issue.

 

[Robin]

ahhh.. but what if I told you those 6 holes were made by 3 bullets?

Well, duh, did you actually read what I wrote?
Robin

 

[BDinPutnam]

Well, duh, did you actually read what I wrote?
Robin

RIF!

 

[JackNeat]

much better results. Wolf steel cased 115gr FMJ @50ft. This made me a happy camper. I still have to take the muzzle device off and take Picts.

Now I feel as though I can stop fighting the gun or second guessing everything I am doing and just concentrate on shooting and my mechanics and fundamentals.

 

[meketrefe]

View attachment 85046 much better results. Wolf steel cased 115gr FMJ @50ft. This made me a happy camper. I still have to take the muzzle device off and take Picts.

Now I feel as though I can stop fighting the gun or second guessing everything I am doing and just concentrate on shooting and my mechanics and fundamentals.

Nice! whatever sighting system it looks you can come up 2 clicks up and one left but otherwise good grouping.