New Mossberg Shotguns

[S&W Fan]

I want one !

 

[Celt]

Great, another gun i want.

 

[Acer-m14]

Made in Ithaca NY ?

 

[Acer-m14]

no pistol grip .. just that door knob ..

590A2 below

 

[S&W Fan]

Made in Ithaca NY ?

The majority of O.F. Mossberg’s shotguns are made in Eagle pass Texas. With about 10% of their parts made in either Mexico or Turkey. This is only on a few models. Mossberg use to have a plant in New Haven Connecticut. But the anti gun atmosphere there forced them to move to Texas. They are still the oldest family owned gun manufacturer in the US

 

[mchasal]

Since Mossberg actually publishes the capacity of the 20" as 13 mini shells, I wonder if the tube in that model would be considered a large capacity feeding device under the safe act? #partypooper

 

[S&W Fan]

Since Mossberg actually publishes the capacity of the 20" as 13 mini shells, I wonder of the tube in that model would be considered a large capacity feeding device under the safe act? #partypooper

No problem with a pump action shotgun. The Only issue you would run into is if you were to use it for hunting .

 

[mchasal]

No problem with a pump action shotgun. The Only issue you would run into is if you were to use it for hunting .

Large capacity feeding devices are covered under the law separately from the firearm. So, the 590S itself could not be an assault weapon, but its tube magazine could be an LCFD. An attached tubular magazine has a specific exemption for .22 but not other calibers. Of course the usual caveats of this not being tested by the courts apply, but the text of the law does list them separately.

 

[Acer-m14]

i was thinking the same as @mchasal ... i was going to get a longer tube for my moss 500 pump for home defense use .. but my reading under the unsafe act that would be a no no even on a pump .. .. hunting is no issue .. shot gun holds 7 say then for duck or goose ext where your limited to 3 in the tube. out comes the wood dowel to limit the tube capacity ..

 

[pshift]

I'm not upgrading. Just use this to use 1.75" shells for your Mossy 500/590. Works great!

OPSol® Mini-Clip 2.0 Flex (12ga) - OPSol® Mini-Clip™

Adapter allows use of 12ga 1.75" Birdshot, Buckshot, and Slug Shells Only fits: 12ga Mossberg® 500, 500A, 590, 590A1, and Maverick® 88 models, and the 12ga Shockwave Firearm Home Defense For the Whole Family in 3 easy steps: 12ga Mossberg® Shockwave OPSol Mini-Clip 2.0 Flex® 12ga Buckshot...

www.opsolmini-clip.com

 

[fresch]

Clip or mag ?
Now I'm confused.

 

[Celt]

Large capacity feeding devices are covered under the law separately from the firearm. So, the 590S itself could not be an assault weapon, but its tube magazine could be an LCFD. An attached tubular magazine has a specific exemption for .22 but not other calibers. Of course the usual caveats of this not being tested by the courts apply, but the text of the law does list them separately.

Pretty certain the law only pertains to semi auto shotguns being considered "assault weapons" if they had a tube mag capacity greater than 7... (edit, signed law says 7)

And the question had been debated before regarding mini shells making "compliant" semi autos, non compliant. I think the consensus was dont keep a semi auto loaded with more than 7 mini shells if you intend to use it for SD... but being in new yorkistan, nothing is guaranteed. Also, it depends on if the gun was "designed" to accept more, but again I think its only for semi auto sg's.

Here is the text of the safe act from the senate bill. (Not signed law, signed law changes count to 7)

Assault weapon" means
(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an
39 ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the
40 following characteristics:
41 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
42 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
43 the weapon;
44 (iii) a bayonet mount;
45 (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
46 flash suppressor;
47 (v) a grenade launcher; or
48 (b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
49 characteristics:
50 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
51 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
52 the weapon;
53 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
54 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
55 (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable 56 magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:

 

[pshift]

You can put anything on a pump. Just saying...

 

[Phazer]

Pretty certain the law only pertains to semi auto shotguns being considered "assault weapons" if they had a tube mag capacity greater than 5...

48 (b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
49 characteristics:
50 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
51 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
52 the weapon;
53 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
54 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
55 (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable 56 magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:

No. Semiauto allowed 7 rounds.

https://safeact.ny.gov/banned-features-shotguns

 

[spat]

You can put anything on a pump. Just saying...

The magazine itself is illegal.

You don't even need to have a gun to attach it to, let alone a semi auto.

And there is no exception for capacity for a non detachable magazine either.

 

[MikeyCNY]

I'm not upgrading. Just use this to use 1.75" shells for your Mossy 500/590. Works great!

OPSol® Mini-Clip 2.0 Flex (12ga) - OPSol® Mini-Clip™

Adapter allows use of 12ga 1.75" Birdshot, Buckshot, and Slug Shells Only fits: 12ga Mossberg® 500, 500A, 590, 590A1, and Maverick® 88 models, and the 12ga Shockwave Firearm Home Defense For the Whole Family in 3 easy steps: 12ga Mossberg® Shockwave OPSol Mini-Clip 2.0 Flex® 12ga Buckshot...

www.opsolmini-clip.com

From the one video I watched, the advantage to getting one of the new "S" models is the ability to mix shell sizes, if that's your thing.

I was planning to get a Beretta 1301 Tactical as my next purchase, but these new Mossbergs look interesting - especially a Shockwave with mini shells. :chefs-kiss:

 

[Celt]

No. Semiauto allowed 7 rounds.

https://safeact.ny.gov/banned-features-shotguns

Thats right, i quoted the text from the senate bill rather than the signed law. I was trying to do that quickly.

 

[mchasal]

Pretty certain the law only pertains to semi auto shotguns being considered "assault weapons" if they had a tube mag capacity greater than 7... (edit, signed law says 7)

Right, the shotgun itself is not an AW, but the magazine is(IMO) a LCAFD, just like a 30 round AR mag is illegal even if you don't have a gun for it.

And the question had been debated before regarding mini shells making "compliant" semi autos, non compliant.

The big difference here, which I haven't seen before, is that the manufacturer has published the capacity in mini shells. So there's an argument that this is designed to have a capacity of 13 rounds (for the 20") as opposed to previous ones where yeah, you could fit more mini shells in, but they weren't designed for it, and many don't work very well with them.

And there is no exception for capacity for a non detachable magazine either.

There is an exception for tube mags in .22 rifles. The presence of that exception supports the idea that attached tube mags are considered to be LCAFD since that exception would not be needed if that wasn't the intent.

 

[Celt]

I hear you, although I believe that because its a pump, and a fixed tube that ita not an AW or illegal, but ianal so everyone should only do what they are comfortable with.

 

[mchasal]

I hear you, although I believe that because its a pump, and a fixed tube that ita not an AW or illegal, but ianal so everyone should only do what they are comfortable with.

Yes, I agree it comes down to individual choice what someone is comfortable with given the lack of precedent. (IANAL also)
Since the Assault Weapon section has been quoted a few times, but I didn't see the LCAFD definition, so here it is (with the part about 7 rounds pruned):

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt,
drum, feed strip, or similar device, that (a) has a capacity of, or that
can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of
ammunition, ...
; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached
tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,
.22 caliber rimfire ammunition or a feeding device that is a curio or
relic.

I don't see anything in there that says "except attached mags" other than that .22 exemption. Again, the presence of that section would go a long way to convince a judge/jury that attached mags other than .22 tubular mags are meant to be considered LCAFD.

Later on there's a specific section that makes the LCAFD a crime in itself, along side an AW, not under it.

265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree when:
...
(7) Such person possesses an assault weapon; or
(8) Such person possesses a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

The way the law is written is why all the fixed mag ARs are 10 round mags and not 20 or 30. It wouldn't be an assault weapon, but still would be an illegal mag.

 

[spat]

I hear you, although I believe that because its a pump, and a fixed tube that ita not an AW or illegal, but ianal so everyone should only do what they are comfortable with.

It is not an AW. Only semi autos with detachable magazines can be an AW.

A 30 round AR mag is not an AW either, but it is still a felony. Even if it is epoxied into a bolt action gun, or just sitting on a shelf with no gun at all.

 

[Celt]

Yes, I agree it comes down to individual choice what someone is comfortable with given the lack of precedent. (IANAL also)
Since the Assault Weapon section has been quoted a few times, but I didn't see the LCAFD definition, so here it is (with the part about 7 rounds pruned):


I don't see anything in there that says "except attached mags" other than that .22 exemption. Again, the presence of that section would go a long way to convince a judge/jury that attached mags other than .22 tubular mags are meant to be considered LCAFD.

Later on there's a specific section that makes the LCAFD a crime in itself, along side an AW, not under it.

The way the law is written is why all the fixed mag ARs are 10 round mags and not 20 or 30. It wouldn't be an assault weapon, but still would be an illegal mag.

Good point, having a gun that is designed to hold more than 10 rounds could be a problem in New York even if it's a pump shotgun with a fixed mag. I wasn't looking at it from that aspect before.

 

[Celt]

@mchasal

To add, if someone had this gun, and it wasnt loaded with mini rounds I dont think it would be an issue. Kind of like how a 30 round ar mag is used to hold 50 beowulf rounds making the magazine legal to own and use for 50 beowulf.

 

[mchasal]

@mchasal

To add, if someone had this gun, and it wasnt loaded with mini rounds I dont think it would be an issue. Kind of like how a 30 round ar mag is used to hold 50 beowulf rounds making the magazine legal to own and use for 50 beowulf.

That's certainly a much more grey area, as usual the lawmakers don't deeply understand the subject and write things as absolutes that aren't.

With previous shotguns, where the capacity for minishells wasn't published, you could certainly take the tack that it wasn't in the specs and you didn't load minishells and that might be enough, assuming you weren't caught with one with 10+ minishells loaded. With this Mossy, it's right there in black and white.

The Beowulf argument is similar, but I don't think it's any sort of carte blanche. Like if you don't own a .50 Beowulf upper I don't think you'll have too much luck saying that they're .50 Beowulf mags, nor would it hold any sway if you had one stuffed with 5.56.

I wondered about lever actions too, but looking at some that are chambered in .357/.38spl or .44mag/.44spl the difference in cartridge length doesn't seem to add up to an extra round, at least in the specs. I did find some .22 lever actions that list different capacities for .22S/.22L/.22LR, but those would be exempt anyway.

Of course, we're kinda off in the fringes here anyway. It's highly unlikely that anyone's going to be inspecting your mags in the first place. So these are all things that would be more likely to be piled on if you did some other bad thing to attract the attention. Still, I think it's good to know when one is possibly pushing into one of these grey areas so as not to do so unwittingly, so these discussions still seem valuable, especially to folks new to the exciting NY firearm scene.

 

[Acer-m14]

its like the 458 socom is a 30 round mag that only holds 10 but is a .223 30 rnd mag .. lol

 

[Celt]

its like the 458 socom is a 30 round mag that only holds 10 but is a .223 30 rnd mag .. lol

Just make sure you own the gun for it and keep those mags loaded with the legal ammo.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

All this legal talk gave me a headache.

Boy will I be glad when I move to KY.