New Reloader with a Problem: UPDATE.

[mgunner]

Hey guys. I got all set up to reload for my 9mm Ruger PC Carbine. This will be my first time reloading and I've run into a situation that I hope you can help me with. I'm using my barrel for the "Plunk Test" and it fails every time. I'm now almost below the MIN OAL and it still fails the Plunk Test. I've tried this 4 times. Here is information you may need to see what may be happening:

1. Using Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee.
2. OAL for 9mm is listed as 1.169"
3. Recipe is for 115 grain Lead Bullet using Titegroup powder. MIN OAL is listed as 1.100"
3. Using 115 grain Poly Coated Round Nose bullets. Diameter is 0.356. Manufactured by Badman Bullets.
4. I'm using my spent casings.
5. I've removed the barrel of the rifle to perform the Plunk Test.
6. My caliper is zeroed and I've zeroed it several times just to be sure that it's working correctly.

When I de-prime and size the case it passes the "Plunk Test" without a bullet. The brass case drops in and out of the barrel and turns with no problem. Once the bullet is seated and I gradually seat the bullet a little at a time while checking OAL it fails the Plunk Test. This is driving me a bit nuts. I can't go below the MIN OAL because of pressure issues. What the heck is going on?

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[dsdmmat]

Seat your Bullet to max COAL and your crimp a little deeper.

 

[kev74]

The coated bullets are probably a little oversized. Try what @dsdmmat suggested. If you still have trouble, a lee factory crimp die should take out the bulge. Or try different bullets.

 

[Deplorable Me]

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-9mm.html

99% of my gear is RCBS. My first 9mm and .45acp were lemons. I was introduced to the Lee factory crimp die and it's been clear sailing ever since.

 

[mgunner]

Seat your Bullet to max COAL and your crimp a little deeper.

Just tried your suggestion and still running into the same problem. It seems that the bullet is touching the rifling. The round fits the bore flush but when I turn the round in the bore it feels like its getting caught on the rifling. If I just pull the round out of the bore a couple of mm it turns fine and falls out when I turn the barrel over.

This is a brand new rifle, I just shot it for the first time yesterday using factory rounds. I fired 150 rounds of 115 grain FMJ and it fed and fired with no problems. Could it be that the rifle has to be broken in a bit? If I were to load several rounds with this issue, would it be dangerous to my safety or would it just be a matter of rounds not feeding correctly?

 

[mgunner]

The coated bullets are probably a little oversized. Try what @dsdmmat suggested. If you still have trouble, a lee factory crimp die should take out the bulge. Or try different bullets.

I have the Lee 4 die set with the factory crimp die. I measured the diameter of some of the bullets and they measure 0.356. I just bought 500 bullets yesterday and it cost me almost $50.00 the idea that all these bullets can't be used is disturbing.

 

[mgunner]

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-9mm.html

99% of my gear is RCBS. My first 9mm and .45acp were lemons. I was introduced to the Lee factory crimp die and it's been clear sailing ever since.

I have that die as well. This problem I'm having doesn't make any sense.

 

[kev74]

I have the Lee 4 die set with the factory crimp die. I measured the diameter of some of the bullets and they measure 0.356. I just bought 500 bullets yesterday and it cost me almost $50.00 the idea that all these bullets can't be used is disturbing.

First, relax. This isn't a big problem.

If you've got the factory crimp die, that will squeeze down any bulge from the bullet entering the case.

If you want to skip that step, make 5 or 10 rounds and see if they run through your gun. If the bolt doesn't seat, you have to take action. If they run ok, you don't have a problem. As long as you followed a safe recepie out of a book, there is nothing unsafe about running those rounds.

 

[dsdmmat]

Just tried your suggestion and still running into the same problem. It seems that the bullet is touching the rifling. The round fits the bore flush but when I turn the round in the bore it feels like its getting caught on the rifling. If I just pull the round out of the bore a couple of mm it turns fine and falls out when I turn the barrel over.

This is a brand new rifle, I just shot it for the first time yesterday using factor rounds. I fired 150 rounds of 115 grain FMJ and it fed and fired with no problems. Could it be that the rifle has to be broken in a bit? If I were to load several rounds with this issue, would it be dangerous to my safety or would it just be a matter of rounds not feeding correctly?

if they will feed and chamber I would run them. Jamming the bullet into the lands is not going to be an issue as long as you are not running into pressure signs.

 

[togmaster]

You may be flaring the case mouth too much and not crimping enough. Set your OAL at 1.125 and reduce the flair to a minimum. Once you see bullet shavings you have gone too far. Then adjust the crimp until the bullet plunks.

 

[Hillbilly77]

A bit off-topic, but since you said you are new at reloading....

Titegroup is an awesome and economical powder but use extreme caution with it. The min/max charge difference is only 4/10ths apart for your 9MM loads.
Be very careful to avoid overcharging with Titegroup.

 

[Robin]

'Plunk test', never heard that one before.
Robin

 

[kev74]

'Plunk test', never heard that one before.
Robin

I.e.- poor man's case gauge.

 

[togmaster]

'Plunk test', never heard that one before.
Robin

It's what the doctor does when he puts on the rubber gloves.

 

[thegatman]

Check your reloading costs for 9mm. I stopped reloading for that as it’s cheaper to buy it.

 

[MoMan]

This is not unheard of with powder coated bullets. I've had to seat my bullets a 'bit' deeper to overcome the problem. It's no biggie, especially with you being a 'new' reloader, and probably are not loading hot loads.

 

[mgunner]

First, relax. This isn't a big problem.

If you've got the factory crimp die, that will squeeze down any bulge from the bullet entering the case.

If you want to skip that step, make 5 or 10 rounds and see if they run through your gun. If the bolt doesn't seat, you have to take action. If they run ok, you don't have a problem. As long as you followed a safe recepie out of a book, there is nothing unsafe about running those rounds.

OK, I'll load a couple and see what happens. I appreciate the help.

 

[mgunner]

if they will feed and chamber I would run them. Jamming the bullet into the lands is not going to be an issue as long as you are not running into pressure signs.

That's what I'm going to do. I'll test them out and seat the bullet enough so that when I "plunk" the bullet it sits flush in the bore. I'll keep the OAL between max and min. Thank you for getting back to me about this problem.

 

[mgunner]

You may be flaring the case mouth too much and not crimping enough. Set your OAL at 1.125 and reduce the flair to a minimum. Once you see bullet shavings you have gone too far. Then adjust the crimp until the bullet plunks.

I'll give that a try and see what happens. Thank you for the advice.

 

[mgunner]

Check your reloading costs for 9mm. I stopped reloading for that as it’s cheaper to buy it.

I looked into that before I decided to start to reload. I'm doing it because it's something I'll enjoy doing. Used to build scale models on a regular basis and like working with my hands. If I add higher power rifles to my collection, I'll have the skill set to reload and save money when I do it. Seems the more expensive the ammunition the more potential to save if you reload your own.

 

[mgunner]

A bit off-topic, but since you said you are new at reloading....

Titegroup is an awesome and economical powder but use extreme caution with it. The min/max charge difference is only 4/10ths apart for your 9MM loads.
Be very careful to avoid overcharging with Titegroup.

Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed that when I looked in the reloading manual. I plan to only use the starting loads and weigh often.

 

[mgunner]

I.e.- poor man's case gauge.

I've seen on Youtube and read elsewhere that it's a good idea to Plunk test even if you use a case gauge. I guess because the case gauge doesn't have rifling? The gauge only checks to make sure the OAL is OK?

 

[mgunner]

This is not unheard of with powder coated bullets. I've had to seat my bullets a 'bit' deeper to overcome the problem. It's no biggie, especially with you being a 'new' reloader, and probably are not loading hot loads.

Thank you for replying to the thread. Good to know that someone else had these issues. I tried seating the bullet at Max OAL and everything in between down to the Min OAL and still had the same problem. I tried a light crimp, heavy crimp, no crimp, and various crimps in between. Have no idea what's going on. No case bulge, no case collapse, and I'm putting the rounds through a Lee factory crimp die. Just weird. You're right, I'm going to be reloading starting loads only.

 

[repete]

I've seen on Youtube and read elsewhere that it's a good idea to Plunk test even if you use a case gauge. I guess because the case gauge doesn't have rifling? The gauge only checks to make sure the OAL is OK?

Most case gages are made to the max dia. and in my own experience most of my chambers are tighter than the gage!
I've heard that 9mm is supposed to be one of the hardest rounds to reload, good thing nobody told me that when I started! But with that being said you need to remember 9,45acp and some others headspace on the case mouth not on the rim so be careful of crimping. You may want to look into a LEE bulge buster die as a last resort.

 

[mgunner]

Update:

Just tried to fire several reloaded rounds and I'm having problems. First round chambers and fires, then gun locks up and won't feed the next round. I can't fully engage the safety. The only way for me to remove the round that's stuck in the chamber is by locking the bolt open, removing the barrel, and then inserting a cleaning rod down the muzzle to push the round out. When I remove the stuck round from the breech I see scratches in the poly coating of the bullets. I've tried bullets seated at 1.312, 1.118, 1.112. All fail. As before they all failed the Plunk Test as well. They fit in the chamber but will not turn and will not fall out on their own.

I've seated a bullet down to 1.103 and it still fails the Plunk Test. But since the reloading manual states that the min OAL for my load is 1.100 I don't feel comfortable firing a round so close to the min OAL. I assume it will jam anyway since it fails the Plunk Test just like all the the other rounds I've mentioned.

What the heck is going on? Any thoughts as to what I should do at this point? As a reminder, I've fired 150 rounds of American Eagle 115 grain full metal jacket in this rifle with no issues.

 

[MilesTeg]

Sorry I don't have the time to do a full write up now but I am now convinced your problem isn't the seating depth. I think your problem is with the case mouth. Your either flaring too much or not removing all of the flare. If you could can you please measure the flare, the case after flare removal with a bullet in it, also the wall thickness.

 

[mgunner]

Sorry I don't have the time to do a full write up now but I am now convinced your problem isn't the seating depth. I think your problem is with the case mouth. Your either flaring too much or not removing all of the flare. If you could can you please measure the flare, the case after flare removal with a bullet in it, also the wall thickness.

Thank you for getting back to me. I checked the tolerances as you suggested and compared them to the tolerances in my reloading manual. All fall well within spec. But I did find out the problem when I took a trip to a gun store and spoke to the owner:

When he first looked at the bullets he noticed that the poly coating was not "slick" and seemed to be gummy compared to other coatings he has seen. We then took a 9mm fmj round and did the Plunk Test and it passed with no problem. So the problem is the bullet. He said that from his experience, some guns don't run as well as others with poly coated bullets. So his suggestion was to stick to ball ammo. So that's what I'll try next. I'll add another update to this thread once I load new ammo. Hopefully that fixes the problem. First I have to disassemble 50 rounds of ammo.

 

[MilesTeg]

It does sound like the bullets are crap! Please don't give up on poly coated because of that one manufacture (which I have never heard of), because me and thousands of others have had nothing but success. If you want to try reloading for this gun again here are some recommended manufactures. Mind you there are many more out there.

Bullet Reloading Supplies | Rocky Mountain Reloading

Gallant Bullets - Match Grade TPJ (Polymer Coated) Bullets

Gallant Bullets manufactures and sells match grade TPJ (Total Polymer Jacket) polymer coated cast bullets. Gallant Bullets is veteran owned and veteran operated. Gallant Bullets are made in Utah.

gallantbullets.com

The Blue Bullets

www.thebluebullets.com

Acme Bullet Company

Acme Bullet Company has Hi-Tek Coated Bullets, Lead Cast Bullets, New Starline Brass and Speedloaders for all of your reloading needs!

www.acmebullet.com

https://www.blackbulletsinternational.com/

 

[mgunner]

It does sound like the bullets are crap! Please don't give up on poly coated because of that one manufacture (which I have never heard of), because me and thousands of others have had nothing but success. If you want to try reloading for this gun again here are some recommended manufactures. Mind you there are many more out there.

Bullet Reloading Supplies | Rocky Mountain Reloading

Gallant Bullets - Match Grade TPJ (Polymer Coated) Bullets

Gallant Bullets manufactures and sells match grade TPJ (Total Polymer Jacket) polymer coated cast bullets. Gallant Bullets is veteran owned and veteran operated. Gallant Bullets are made in Utah.

gallantbullets.com

The Blue Bullets

www.thebluebullets.com

Acme Bullet Company

Acme Bullet Company has Hi-Tek Coated Bullets, Lead Cast Bullets, New Starline Brass and Speedloaders for all of your reloading needs!

www.acmebullet.com

https://www.blackbulletsinternational.com/

Thanks for the links to other bullet manufacturers. I'll check them out.

 

[mgunner]

It does sound like the bullets are crap! Please don't give up on poly coated because of that one manufacture (which I have never heard of), because me and thousands of others have had nothing but success...

So the problem was the bullet. I picked up round nose copper plated bullets from Berry's Bullets. Reloads passed the Plunk Test with no problem and fired without jams.

There are 3 things that could have caused a problem with the poly coated bullets:
1. The poly coating from Badman Bullets is causing the problem.
2. My rifle just won't work well with any type of poly coated bullet. Hard to tell until I try another poly coated bullet from another manufacturer.
3. The profile of the poly coated round nose bullets from Badman Bullets is the problem. I say this because when you compare Badman to Berry's, it's obvious that the Badman bullet is rounder than the Berry's round nose. Berry's has an elongated profile which comes to more of a peak. See these links to see what I'm talking about:

Berry's 9mm 115 Grain Bullets (356 Diameter) | Midsouth Shooters

You'll be pleased with the consistent quality of Berry's 9mm, 115 grain bullets. Order these 356 diameter round nose plated bullets today at Midsouth Shooters.

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Badman Bullets

Discover the benefits of using these 115 Grain RN Polymer Coated Hard Cast Lead Bullets for Reloading Qty 500

www.badmanbullets.com