Nickel Boron BCG moving too fast?

[dwa12479]

Used a brand new WMD Guns NiB BCG for a recent build, and I've had malfunctions with it right from the beginning. Will not lock open on a 1 round mag, often have failure to extract, and when it does extract, doesn't feed the next round properly. The bolt actually catches the next round past the rim and ends up sending the tip upwards about 45 degrees into the barrel extension over top of the chamber. At first I was thinking under gassing, but the ejections I did get were coming out around 3:00. Made sure the gas block was aligned properly, all is good. So multiple other BCG's run fine in this build, and this one malfunctions the exact same way in multiple other rifles. All have fixed, low profile gas blocks and standard weight buffers.

So I'm trying to decide if the bolt is unlocking too quickly, or if the NiB coating allows it to move so quickly that it's throwing off the timing. Options are what, adjustable gas block ,heavier buffer? Or a different BCG. Ideally I like to be able to mix and match uppers/lowers with each other. I hate the idea of a certain upper that only works with a certain lower. Thoughts?

 

[Calculon]

Did you try just swapping the bolt and not the entire BCG? Wondering if it's somehow out of spec. Can't imagine that the NiB coating is making that much of a difference. Not an expert but I thought about staying at a Holiday Inn Express once.

 

[dwa12479]

Did you try just swapping the bolt and not the entire BCG? Wondering if it's somehow out of spec. Can't imagine that the NiB coating is making that much of a difference. Not an expert but I thought about staying at a Holiday Inn Express once.

I didn't. It will stand up on its face without collapsing, the gas ring openings are not lined up (I know, there's a whole controversy over that) and being that I may have to send it back for warranty I didn't want to mix/match the bolt and carrier with something else.

I do have to say that the coating is very slick. And it cleans like a dream. My first and only NiB BCG.

 

[Calculon]

I know @Eddie Gunks hates NiB BCSs as the coating is often too thick - maybe he'll chime in. I'm wondering if the coating on the inner surfaces is too thick and causing the bolt to stick rather than move freely.

 

[Mosinitis]

If you stuck to mil. spec. parts, you wouldn't be asking yourself this question. Lesson learned from experience.

 

[Will556]

A well made BCG no matter the coating should run regardless. Swapping the bolt is easily done in a matter of seconds to see if it’s the bolt specifically. But if you’re going to 100% return it on the warranty anyway, there’s no point of testing it. NP3 is the new NiB. If you can get your hands on a nice Sionics NP3 BCG, you’ll be good. TRIARC makes one as well. Any well made BCG will be good to go. Stick with good quality brands like SOLGW, BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt. There are plenty of BCG’s that aren’t “Mil-Spec” but still out perform the Mil-Spec’s. Nitride is a great coating but it’s not “Mil-Spec”. There are also very high end BCG’s like the LMT Full Auto Enhanced BCG which is considered to some to be the holy grail of BCG’s and has components that are not “Mil-Spec”.

 

[Edwardteach72]

A well made BCG no matter the coating should run regardless. Swapping the bolt is easily done in a matter of seconds to see if it’s the bolt specifically. But if you’re going to 100% return it on the warranty anyway, there’s no point of testing it. NP3 is the new NiB. If you can get your hands on a nice Sionis NP3 BCG, you’ll be good. TRIARC makes one as well. Any well made BCG will be good to go. Stick with good quality brands like SOLGW, BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt. There are plenty of BCG’s that aren’t “Mil-Spec” but still out perform the Mil-Spec’s. Nitride is a great coating but it’s not “Mil-Spec”. There are also very high end BCG’s like the LMT Full Auto Enhanced BCG which is considered to some to be the holy grail of BCG’s and has components that are not “Mil-Spec”.

Stop all these scarry word's

 

[Mosinitis]

Either BCG functions or it doesn't. There is no "outperform".

 

[Will556]

Y

Either BCG functions or it doesn't. There is no "outperform".

You mean high quality BCG’s that aren’t “Mil-Spec” but have superior features than the standard BCG which achieve higher round count’s before failure/breakage, superior metal choices, wear less, have options for better dispersion of gas, better friction coefficients don’t “outperform”?

 

[dwa12479]

If you stuck to mil. spec. parts, you wouldn't be asking yourself this question. Lesson learned from experience.

Ordinarily I do stick to Mil-Spec. These were on sale for a crazy low price from Joe Bob a while back, so I figured I'd give it a try.

 

[dwa12479]

A well made BCG no matter the coating should run regardless. Swapping the bolt is easily done in a matter of seconds to see if it’s the bolt specifically. But if you’re going to 100% return it on the warranty anyway, there’s no point of testing it. NP3 is the new NiB. If you can get your hands on a nice Sionics NP3 BCG, you’ll be good. TRIARC makes one as well. Any well made BCG will be good to go. Stick with good quality brands like SOLGW, BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt. There are plenty of BCG’s that aren’t “Mil-Spec” but still out perform the Mil-Spec’s. Nitride is a great coating but it’s not “Mil-Spec”. There are also very high end BCG’s like the LMT Full Auto Enhanced BCG which is considered to some to be the holy grail of BCG’s and has components that are not “Mil-Spec”.

So avoid PSA?

WMD is taking it back, so yeah, I didn't start getting too far into the guts of it. I was out a couple hours last Sunday morning doing experiments, it was like 28 and windy, so I was at the end of my patience to keep fiddling once I narrowed it down to the BCG.

 

[Will556]

So avoid PSA?

Lmao, I avoid PSA completely for anything.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Y

You mean high quality BCG’s that aren’t “Mil-Spec” but have superior features than the standard BCG which achieve higher round count’s before failure/breakage, superior metal choices, wear less, have options for better dispersion of gas, better friction coefficients don’t “outperform”?

So avoid PSA?

 

[Will556]

Ordinarily I do stick to Mil-Spec. These were on sale for a crazy low price from Joe Bob a while back, so I figured I'd give it a try.

I’m not saying Mil-Spec BCG’s are bad, not at all. As long as it’s properly made you’ll be good to go, same as any BCG really, but there are definitely benefits to having nicer BCG’s or any equipment for that matter. I purposely stick with better known brands that have better QC and have better recorded track records. I have a NiB BCG and it’s been great and never failed me. A Toyota Camry will get you to 85mph and passes all requirements to legally be allowed to be driven on the road but it’s not on the same level as a Koenigsegg.

 

[dwa12479]

I’m not saying Mil-Spec BCG’s are bad, not at all. As long as it’s properly made you’ll be good to go, same as any BCG really, but there are definitely benefits to having nicer BCG’s or any equipment for that matter. I purposely stick with better known brands that have better QC and have better recorded track records. I have a NiB BCG and it’s been great and never failed me. A Toyota Camry will get you to 85mph and passes all requirements to legally be allowed to be driven on the road but it’s not on the same level as a Koenigsegg.

Yep, for sure. I'd never used a NiB BCG before, so figured what the heck. I like experimenting. Im not a competition shooter, so I generally don't stray to the higher end of the scale on most items.

 

[Mosinitis]

Y

You mean high quality BCG’s that aren’t “Mil-Spec” but have superior features than the standard BCG which achieve higher round count’s before failure/breakage, superior metal choices, wear less, have options for better dispersion of gas, better friction coefficients don’t “outperform”?

Bull

 

[Will556]

Bull

That’s a pretty weak rebuttal. If you’re going defend your argument I think you’d try harder than that. I’m using recorded information and specifications to backup my side of the argument, you’re using emotion instead of hard facts and have nothing to backup your claims. There are absolutely BCG’s that exceed Mil-Spec and are better because they do. Using the LMT Enhanced BCG as an example again...please find me reports of a broken bolt from it? I would bet you’d be hard pressed to be able to count that on one hand let alone two hands. Now do the same thing with “Mil-Spec” bolts?! The LMT also has a modified cam pin path to improve dwell time, modified gas ports to improve gas flow, manufactured out of stronger material than “Mil-Spec”, their proprietary extractor has twice the springs for increased extraction and lifespan...there are other improvements over “Mil-Spec” that it has but listing them all would be like beating a dead horse.

 

[Edwardteach72]

This is why I hate "milspec" like milspec is the lowest tolerance something can be made to for the military to buy it.


Why would you want milspec.

It goes back to the charging handle issue when one member was saying only milspec charging handles otherwise you will have issues

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ok yes milspec is good for a bare minimum

And its nice to have a milspec designation hence why the AR15 is the best platform out there but thats more or less talking about dimension for part sizes vs tolerance or added things

 

[Mosinitis]

That’s a pretty weak rebuttal. If you’re going defend your argument I think you’d try harder than that. I’m using recorded information and specifications to backup my side of the argument, you’re using emotion instead of hard facts and have nothing to backup your claims. There are absolutely BCG’s that exceed Mil-Spec and are better because they do. Using the LMT Enhanced BCG as an example again...please find me reports of a broken bolt from it? I would bet you’d be hard pressed to be able to count that on one hand let alone two hands. Now do the same thing with “Mil-Spec” bolts?! The LMT also has a modified cam pin path to improve dwell time, modified gas ports to improve gas flow, manufactured out of stronger material than “Mil-Spec”, their proprietary extractor has twice the springs for increased extraction and lifespan...there are other improvements over “Mil-Spec” that it has but listing them all would be like beating a dead horse.

I am not going to debate you. Longwinded drivel to back up bullshit claims is not my thing.

 

[Vapor]

My psa premium bcgs are fine.

My del ton mpi/hot is fine too.


I have a giessle that's actually a back up.

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[Will556]

I am not going to debate you. Longwinded drivel to back up bullshit claims is not my thing.

You say “long winded”, I say thorough with information to back up my claims. Just complaining about how in depth my comment was sounds like an easy cop-out for you when you have no valid argument. I wish you would have had been able to add something to the argument that might have helped out your thoughts on it and possibly prove you’re correct for a healthy debate but it is what it is. Again, Mil-Spec BCG’s absolutely work but there are better options.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You say “long winded”, I say thorough with information to back up my claims. Just complaining about how in depth my comment was sounds like an easy cop-out for you when you have no valid argument. I wish you would have had been able to add something to the argument that might have helped out your thoughts on it and possibly prove you’re correct for a healthy debate but it is what it is. Again, Mil-Spec BCG’s absolutely work but there are better options.

MILSPEC

 

[dwa12479]

My psa premium bcgs are fine.

My del ton mpi/hot is fine too.


I have a giessle that's actually a back up.

For sure. I have BCGs from BCM, Stag, Anderson, Spikes, Aero Precision, and Odin. I don't notice any difference from the higher end ones to the poverty ponies.

 

[ProgSpear]

View attachment 99968

Points for flexibility are offset by the hip replacement in a few years.

 

[dwa12479]

View attachment 99968

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[meketrefe]

I dont think the finishing has anything to do with this part failing at doing its job bit perhaps other aspects of the design and the resulting compounding effect in the di group.
Known design problems with the AR15 that one should try to mitigate are.
A) m4 style Barrels with carbine length porting.
B) larger ports or adjustable gas is not the answer to all "gas problems". Better start with a mid length or rifle length that it is more forgiving to balance.
C)avoid problems by using a M16 /M14 style carrier with its full weight instead of using AR15 carriers or even lighter ones regardless of finishing.
D) make sure bolt and cam are up to spec and extractor properly installed and conditioned.
E) hammer spring with excessive force or not mating well with carrier due to design or burrs / defects.
F) no other interferences form other parts including so so magazines.
G) use mil spec buffers and springs and actually weight and measure them.

The ejection angle might be saying something or nothing at all. Some aftermarket receivers have their own deflector design so one cannot expect a different angle or suquared deflector produce the same pattern as a classic mil spec. For example a SIG vs Addax receiver vs a classic colt.

 

[Mosinitis]

Probably it's not the finish, but it's a variable he didn't need to have. One question to OP.
Are you using aftermarket bolt catch or bolt catch extenders?