Night Vision / Thermal?

[squib]

School me up on goggles/handheld optics (I dont think I want to go full bore rifle optic though I guess I do have enough rifles to dedicate one to night time).

I know scopes have been discussed but I'm interested more in goggles or handhelds. Purpose wise I pretty much live in the woods (I had seen some discussion on thermal vs other in terms of performance in wooded areas). Admittedly more concerned about 4 legged than 2 legged predators.

Problem is of course like most I don't have a ton of money to sink into this.

Food for thought on the subject.

Night vision is better for navigation, and sees thru glass (driving)
Night vision will miss game in brush/forest/shadows


Thermal does not see thru glass
Will ID anything with heat signature
Can be used day/night

Many are now fusing NV and thermal together.

 

[Shoots100]

You want thermal on a budget, but not compromise on features, check out the AGM ASP Micro TM384 monocular.
Since I didn't get to fully test the first 384 I bought + sent to a friend, I had another acquaintance inquire about thermal and he decided he wanted the 384 unit.
Since I've looked through the 384 already and not the cheaper priced 160 unit, I bought a 384 and 160 to do a comparison.
The place I got it from has a good return policy.
It's advertised as a short range thermal and it lives up to that claim.
The video clarity is better than what you see in person, which isn't great.
At 50 yards, in an open setting, you can tell a person from a deer, but anything smaller, your guessing what that blob is.
It performs even worse in the woods or brushy environments, even with snow on the ground.
I don't know why they even have the option of digital zoom, as the 1x base magnification is at the cusp of it's clarity.
I would limit it to Home security/close range detection duties, when you need to know if that noise in the dark is a small or big warm blooded creature.
Needless to say, I returned the 160.
The 384 is worth the extra money and at almost three times the price of the 160, it shows in the clarity and detection capability.
The 384's 15mm germanium lens (6.2mm in the 160) really makes a difference and germanium costs money.
The only features I don't like about it, are the internal battery (Advertised 7 hour continuous run time with WiFi turned off/Perfect weather conditions) and flimsy lens cover.
A storage pouch would be good to have too.
It does have the ability to be powered by an external battery and my friend that bought the first 384 has had no battery life complaints after a month of field use.
I prefer a removable battery.
I tried a rubberized 50mm vortex flip scope cap on the Obj of the AGM and it fit, but was loose enough to fall off when trying to manipulate it.
I think a smaller diameter rubberized Monstrum Obj flip cap would solve that.
Thumbs up from me.


SJC

 

[holdover]

A few years back I had a 5x ATN Spartan. It was a brick, I think it weighed 2lbs and the magnification was 3x at best. I would not recommend.

 

[JamieZ]

You want thermal on a budget, but not compromise on features, check out the AGM ASP Micro TM384 monocular.
Since I didn't get to fully test the first 384 I bought + sent to a friend, I had another acquaintance inquire about thermal and he decided he wanted the 384 unit.
Since I've looked through the 384 already and not the cheaper priced 160 unit, I bought a 384 and 160 to do a comparison.
The place I got it from has a good return policy.
It's advertised as a short range thermal and it lives up to that claim.
The video clarity is better than what you see in person, which isn't great.
At 50 yards, in an open setting, you can tell a person from a deer, but anything smaller, your guessing what that blob is.
It performs even worse in the woods or brushy environments, even with snow on the ground.
I don't know why they even have the option of digital zoom, as the 1x base magnification is at the cusp of it's clarity.
I would limit it to Home security/close range detection duties, when you need to know if that noise in the dark is a small or big warm blooded creature.
Needless to say, I returned the 160.
The 384 is worth the extra money and at almost three times the price of the 160, it shows in the clarity and detection capability.
The 384's 15mm germanium lens (6.2mm in the 160) really makes a difference and germanium costs money.
The only features I don't like about it, are the internal battery (Advertised 7 hour continuous run time with WiFi turned off/Perfect weather conditions) and flimsy lens cover.
A storage pouch would be good to have too.
It does have the ability to be powered by an external battery and my friend that bought the first 384 has had no battery life complaints after a month of field use.
I prefer a removable battery.
I tried a rubberized 50mm vortex flip scope cap on the Obj of the AGM and it fit, but was loose enough to fall off when trying to manipulate it.
I think a smaller diameter rubberized Monstrum Obj flip cap would solve that.
Thumbs up from me.


SJC

Couple things that I wouldnt like about the 384 you picked up,,,that you forgot to to tell me you picked up I say this because obviously I am interested in the knowledge that you have when it comes to thermal choices.

I wouldnt like the fact that the unit starts out at 1 magnification. For those that dont know,, low magnification is GREAT untill you want to increase the magnification. Once increased your clear picture turns to shit. A magnification of 3 would be my choice for starting out.

Surprised you went with a unit that has internal batteries only. Which might not be a big deal if the manufacture replaces them at a decent price when need be. Plus hopefully you get a long burn time on the internal, I see the specs say 7 hour burn time so Im going to figure 6 to 6.5 would be more realistic. No? Do you get the full 7?

How good of a picture do you get? Probably pretty good when at short distance. Similar to my scope which is 384x288 17micron sensor

PS Like I stated to you the other day,,,at 300yds and at the lowest magnification I could barely make out the heat signature of the fox or coyote that I could see pretty clearly through my higher magnification slightly better sensor in my mono.

I see the specs say your micron rating is 8-14 spectral response,,,so does mean the micron rating changes and does it by temp, humidity or am I way off on what I was reading?

AGM Asp-Micro TM384 Thermal Imaging Monocular

Buy AGM Asp-Micro TM384 Thermal Imaging Monocular featuring 384 x 288 Vanadium Oxide Sensor, Detection Range 500 Yards, 50 Hz Refresh Rate, 1x Magnification, 2x-4x Digital Zoom, 16.5 x 12.4° Field of View, Black, White, Red Hot & Fusion Palettes, 720 x 540 LCOS Display, Wi-Fi Streaming to...

www.bhphotovideo.com

I just reread my post and it sounds like a dig but in actuality its more me asking you about the choices you made and why you made those choices. Like I said,, I value considerably your thermal knowledge,,,,which puts mine to shame

PS I wish I would of spent another grand on my thermal scope and got one that started out slightly higher on magnification and one that took video.

The 1.6 starting magnification and picture quality/heat sensitivity is great when animals are within a 100yds but sucks at 300

 

[JamieZ]

A few years back I had a 5x ATN Spartan. It was a brick, I think it weighed 2lbs and the magnification was 3x at best. I would not recommend.

Was the ATN night vision and if it was,,,I thought you didnt hunt or was this for long legged creatures roaming around the house?

 

[holdover]

Yes infra red. I had plans for it , but kinda sucked

 

[JamieZ]

I saw it mentioned in this post about someone not wanting night vision because of the glow from the Infrared light.

There is 2 different Infrared lights. One runs at 940 nano meters and the other runs at 850 nano meters.

The 940 NM Infrared is suppose to be invisible.

The 850NM is what I have used and has a glow

Scanning yardage distance is different between the 2.

If using a 850NM light and you are scanning out to 300,,,,,

using the same wattage comparable 940NM invisible light you will only be able to scan out to 200yds

This info is from research Ive done,,,like I said,,Ive only used the 850NM Infrared


Look at the difference between specs for the same exact scope using different NM Infrared scopes
Specs are at the bottom of the page

Pulsar Digex (old-gen) N455 / N450 | Night Vision Scope

www.pulsar-nv.com

 

[Shoots100]

Couple things that I wouldnt like about the 384 you picked up,,,that you forgot to to tell me you picked up I say this because obviously I am interested in the knowledge that you have when it comes to thermal choices.

I wouldnt like the fact that the unit starts out at 1 magnification. For those that dont know,, low magnification is GREAT untill you want to increase the magnification. Once increased your clear picture turns to shit. A magnification of 3 would be my choice for starting out.

Surprised you went with a unit that has internal batteries only. Which might not be a big deal if the manufacture replaces them at a decent price when need be. Plus hopefully you get a long burn time on the internal, I see the specs say 7 hour burn time so Im going to figure 6 to 6.5 would be more realistic. No? Do you get the full 7?

How good of a picture do you get? Probably pretty good when at short distance. Similar to my scope which is 384x288 17micron sensor

PS Like I stated to you the other day,,,at 300yds and at the lowest magnification I could barely make out the heat signature of the fox or coyote that I could see pretty clearly through my higher magnification slightly better sensor in my mono.

I see the specs say your micron rating is 8-14 spectral response,,,so does mean the micron rating changes and does it by temp, humidity or am I way off on what I was reading?

AGM Asp-Micro TM384 Thermal Imaging Monocular

Buy AGM Asp-Micro TM384 Thermal Imaging Monocular featuring 384 x 288 Vanadium Oxide Sensor, Detection Range 500 Yards, 50 Hz Refresh Rate, 1x Magnification, 2x-4x Digital Zoom, 16.5 x 12.4° Field of View, Black, White, Red Hot & Fusion Palettes, 720 x 540 LCOS Display, Wi-Fi Streaming to...

www.bhphotovideo.com

I just reread my post and it sounds like a dig but in actuality its more me asking you about the choices you made and why you made those choices. Like I said,, I value considerably your thermal knowledge,,,,which puts mine to shame

PS I wish I would of spent another grand on my thermal scope and got one that started out slightly higher on magnification and one that took video.

The 1.6 starting magnification and picture quality/heat sensitivity is great when animals are within a 100yds but sucks at 300

First, No offense taken.
I've been blessed with having contacts in the Night vision/Thermal world for a long time and what I remember to tell other's, is a 1/4 of what I actually test, fondle and use.
Second, It's not my thermal.
I got it for a friend that wanted one and since I didn't get to deliver it to him yet, I decided to test it.
You need to remember that this is a budget thermal that costs under $1,300 shipped.
Without the internet and other tax's, it would've been under $1,200.
It has standard features that you don't get in some higher priced 384 res units.
Video/Still pic recording, Color Pallets, WiFi, Hot Spot, lightweight(.6 Lb), helmet mountable.
That's a lot for the price paid.
When hunting in the north east, I personally like a lower base mag and wider FOV for my thermal spotters, as I use them for detection, not identification.
When hunting out west, I prefer a spotter with a higher base magnification, as targets usually come in from a long ways away.
The same goes for rifle scopes, but I spend the big money for having 640 resolution in my rifle scopes, as that's where the rubber meets the road.
I had 640 res spotters and I personally don't see the need for spending that amount of money for them, when a cheaper 384 res unit will work.
The AGM's response band is in the standard waveband spec's for unclooled thermals.
Only cooled thermals will have a lower response band and those unit's are way more mucho in price and you don't usually see them for sale to the public very often.
I think you need to save some $$ and upgrade to a 640 res rifle scope.
You are correct about the IR NM illuminators.
Being seen by others with NV when using illuminators is another reason for having thermal capability.
SJC

 

[Shoots100]

Here's a short clip of my brothers neighbor coming back from walking his dog.
You can see some of the color pallets work better than others in an urban environment.
He starts out at 50 and enters the house at around 100 yards.
Sorry for the shakiness, as I saw him walking down the street and didn't have time to put my shoes on.
My socks didn't give me any type of barrier from the ice cold cement porch I was standing on.
The things I do for enlightening man kind.
View attachment AGM384.MP4

 

[JamieZ]

Here's a short clip of my brothers neighbor coming back from walking his dog.
You can see some of the color pallets work better than others in an urban environment.
He starts out at 50 and enters the house at around 100 yards.
Sorry for the shakiness, as I saw him walking down the street and didn't have time to put my shoes on.
My socks didn't give me any type of barrier from the ice cold cement porch I was standing on.
The things I do for enlightening man kind.

This was done with the AGM?

I like it for that distance. When in white hot,,, him and the dog stick out like a sore thumb. Their entire bodies do, not just their head and bare arms or whatever but everything. The heat detection seems pretty nice.

 

[Shoots100]

This was done with the AGM?

I like it for that distance. When in white hot,,, him and the dog stick out like a sore thumb. Their entire bodies do, not just their head and bare arms or whatever but everything. The heat detection seems pretty nice.

Yes, The TM384.
The actual display image is better than the recorded video.
I think the video is compressed and loses some clarity.
Here's a short clip of the hot spot function.
I prefer using it without this feature, but it's there if you need to give yourself a seizure.
By this time my whole body was numb and forgive the quick panning, as I wanted to get inside before hypothermia set in.
I'll try to get out and record some live critters in the next few days before It goes away.
View attachment AGM 384 Hot Spot.MP4