NY Lawmakers consider special session to raise their own salaries 18%

[Saltwater60]

We should vote on their raises.
Yes they voted to raise their pay in 2018 from $80,000 to $110,000. So now they want an 18% raise. They will be up to around $130,000 so form 2018 until foray they have received nearly $50,000 in raises in 5 years. Wow that a nice bump for trashing the state and our rights.

Pay raise for state lawmakers gains support from Governor Hochul

If state lawmakers want a bump in pay next year, a special session of the legislature would need to be called before the end of the year. Is that the plan?

www.wgrz.com

 

[spat]

Initiative

Definition of Initiative in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

Referendum

Definition of Referendum in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

"Initiative​

(redirected from Ballot initiative)
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Encyclopedia.

Initiative​

A process of a participatory democracy that empowers the people to propose legislation and to enact or reject the laws at the polls independent of the lawmaking power of the governing body.

The purpose of an initiative, which is a type of election commenced and carried out by the people, is to permit the electorate to resolve questions where their elected representatives fail to do so or refuse to proceed with a change that the public desires.

West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved."

I don't see anything in there that states an initiative must have the consent of political leadership to proceed. Unless you are talking about some kind of political interference at the county level via activist employees (which I think would be illegal). The only thing that may be able to happen, would be for Hochul to veto it should it pass.

"Referendum​

Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.

Referendum​

The right reserved to the people to approve or reject an act of the legislature, or the right of the people to approve or reject legislation that has been referred to them by the legislature.

The referendum power is created by state constitutions and is conferred on the citizens of a state or a local subdivision of the state. Referendum provides the people with a means of expressing their opinion on proposed legislation before it becomes operative as a law. The power of referendum does not permit the people to invalidate a law that is already operative but suspends or annuls a law that has not yet gone into effect. In this sense, referendum is similar to a governor's Veto power. Also, by referendum the people may reinstate an act that the legislature has expressly repealed.

The referendum, along with the initiative, are the two forms of direct legislation adopted by many states during the direct democracy movement of the early twentieth century. Referendum allows the people to state their opinion on laws that have been enacted by the legislature, and the initiative allows the people to propose their own laws. Thus, in the states that have adopted the initiative and referendum, the people essentially form another branch of the legislature, having the ability both to enact laws and to overturn laws passed by the elected legislature but not yet in effect. An initiative or a referendum passed by the people has the same force and effect as any act of the legislature. A referendum may be challenged on constitutional grounds, on grounds that proper procedures were not followed in the referendum process and election, or on grounds that the referendum or initiative was outside the scope of authority granted by the state constitution. Also, in some states the governor may veto an initiative or referendum."

You are missing the operative words "effectively" and "practically".

There is nothing in the law or constitution that requires a president to be from a major party. In fact, our first famously scorned the idea of parties at all.

But, it has been effectively impossible for any candidate to win an election for POTUS without the backing or either the Ds or the Rs for decades. See Ross Perot for the most recent serious attempt.

The referendums and initiatives suffer the same problem.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

@spat
The outlook in this post right here shows why any ballot initiative aiming to make legislative pay raises a matter people get to vote on will fail. Not because of political leadership or the lack of support of a political party.

You seem to misunderstand... NY is only a state because we're on this continent.
We're more like a province of Chyna. With similar rights to redress our grievance with "our betters"

We understand the concept.

But you're talking as a free citizen in a free state to the subjects of a tyrannical fiefdom

Our side may be the wiser and know it's really a lost cause (at least for the short term), but the left will try it and try it and try it until it does become a reality. That kind of vigilance and cheating are the only reasons I can think of for their success. That's the difference.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

You are missing the operative words "effectively" and "practically".

There is nothing in the law or constitution that requires a president to be from a major party. In fact, our first famously scorned the idea of parties at all.

But, it has been effectively impossible for any candidate to win an election for POTUS without the backing or either the Ds or the Rs for decades. See Ross Perot for the most recent serious attempt.

The referendums and initiatives suffer the same problem.

I see what you are saying, but becoming president and making a ballot initiative are two very different things. State level grass roots movements have more traction when it comes to initiatives. Politics on the national level are rigged and beholden to the party structure.

 

[spat]

I see what you are saying, but becoming president and making a ballot initiative are two very different things. State level grass roots movements have more traction when it comes to initiatives. Politics on the national level are rigged and beholden to the party structure.

Yes, an initiative that starta as a grass roots initiative *can* get itself adopted by a major party and eventually succeed.

But it cannot succeed if neither party chooses to adopt it as a cause.

Nothing that actually returns power to the people from the parties will ever be adopted by a major party.

That's why things like term limits don't happen.

Look at polls. They are massively popular with *everyone* that lives outside the DC beltway. But that doesn't mean shit anymore.

Because people who live outside the beltway have as much say as people who live outside the palace did 400 years ago.


Sure you can form opinions and vote how you want, but enough people will form those opinions based only on the information that they are hand fed by their controllers that the rest of us are irrelevant.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Can we send them to Canada on an assisted suicide fact finding mission?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Yes, an initiative that starta as a grass roots initiative *can* get itself adopted by a major party and eventually succeed.

But it cannot succeed if neither party chooses to adopt it as a cause.

Nothing that actually returns power to the people from the parties will ever be adopted by a major party.

If a ballot initiative gets adopted by a major party, it's only because they see the writing on the wall and are using it to gain favor.
The whole fucking point of ballot initiatives and referendums is for the people to go around the party/legislative system. It has and does work. Yet you say that it needs the party system to succeed?
Again, the fact that, as you say, nothing that returns power to the people will be adopted by a major party is the whole reason for ballot initiatives and referendums. Are you really trying to say that the whole system is rigged and elections don't really happen?

 

[Bozo]

The process in NY does not include the ability for citizens to get a measure on the ballot. That can only be done...

...by the legislature!

 

[ArmedCorgi]

The process in NY does not include the ability for citizens to get a measure on the ballot. That can only be done...

...by the legislature!

So that's in the NY Constitution? If so, this whole argument is null...

 

[Acer-m14]

New York State Constitution

New York State Constitution

www.nysenate.gov

 

[Acer-m14]

just searched that PDF for 3 word .. Ballot .. referendum and initiative .. didnt not turn out well

 

[ArmedCorgi]

just searched that PDF for 3 word .. Ballot .. referendum and initiative .. didnt not turn out well

I haven't found anything relative yet.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

So no right for New Yorkers to have ballot initiatives. Fuck it then. Fuck New York and it's legislature.

 

[Acer-m14]

back with a google search .. " how many states have ballot initiatives "

wiki ..

"
Initiatives and referendums—collectively known as "ballot measures," "propositions," or simply "questions"—differ from most legislation passed by representative democracies; ordinarily, an elected legislative body develops and passes laws. Initiatives and referendums, by contrast, allow citizens to vote directly on legislation.

In many U.S. states, ballot measures may originate by several different processes:[3] Overall, 26 US states have initiative and/or veto referendum processes at the statewide level, and all states have at least one form of legislatively referred processes: 49 states have at least a legislatively referred process to amend their constitutions, and one state, Delaware, has a possibility of legislatively referred ballot measures to pass new statutes only. In all of these states except Delaware, to modify the state constitution, at least one form of ballot measure is mandatory, under sometimes greatly different processes from state to state, either for directly voting on a proposed modification, or voting on a ballot measure for choosing to call or not for the election of a state convention charged of modifying the state constitution. Washington, D.C., also has initiative and veto referendum processes. Additionally, multiple forms of direct democracy also exists at the local level, including in some states that otherwise do not have these forms of direct democracy at the state level, the availability of direct democracy measures at the local level varying by jurisdiction depending on state and local laws.[4]

Initiatives and referendums in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[spat]

If a ballot initiative gets adopted by a major party, it's only because they see the writing on the wall and are using it to gain favor.
The whole fucking point of ballot initiatives and referendums is for the people to go around the party/legislative system. It has and does work. Yet you say that it needs the party system to succeed?
Again, the fact that, as you say, nothing that returns power to the people will be adopted by a major party is the whole reason for ballot initiatives and referendums. Are you really trying to say that the whole system is rigged and elections don't really happen?

If it really worked the way you think it does it would not exist.

Never mistake the way government is advertised to work as the way it is intended to work.

 

[libertysnake]

Does no one here know how ballot initiatives and referendums work? Or does NY just not allow them?

What I am referring to circumvents the legislature/normal legislative process. So no, they wouldn't be giving up their power to give themselves raises. The people would be taking it from them.

My understanding is NY does not have direct initiatives or voting. California does actually, but we do not.

Basically the only way to get a vote on the ballot, is via our reps. But our reps are crooked bastards, so they'll never allow a vote against them. See:

Policy Research

NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.

www.ncsl.org

However, there is still a way. I hear it's called:

 

[ArmedCorgi]

My understanding is NY does not have direct initiatives or voting. California does actually, but we do not.

Basically the only way to get a vote on the ballot, is via our reps. But our reps are crooked bastards, so they'll never allow a vote against them. See:

Policy Research

NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.

www.ncsl.org

However, there is still a way. I hear it's called:

You are right. I was wrong. Just one more reason NY sucks balls.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

If it really worked the way you think it does it would not exist.

Never mistake the way government is advertised to work as the way it is intended to work.

I'm sorry I doubted you Spat.

 

[Acer-m14]

California does actually, but we do not.

and Oregon prop 441 i think is the number .. gun and mag ban .. its on hold now ..

the only 2 states i see this happening in year after year ..

 

[libertysnake]

You are right. I was wrong. Just one more reason NY sucks balls.

The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. - Frederick Douglass

 

[ArmedCorgi]

and Oregon prop 441 i think is the number .. gun and mag ban .. its on hold now ..

the only 2 states i see this happening in year after year ..

114

 

[spat]

I'm sorry I doubted you Spat.

If you doubt, then find *one* successful initiative anywhere that neither the R or the D leadership liked.

 

[Saltwater60]

and Oregon prop 441 i think is the number .. gun and mag ban .. its on hold now ..

the only 2 states i see this happening in year after year ..

114.

 

[Saltwater60]

Well they did it. They passed it. Apparently their own money and stripping our rights away are the most important things. 18%? Nope not enough, nearly 30%. They are now the highest paid losers in America with the same job. This is insane, truly.

Bill would raise New York state lawmakers’ pay to $142,000 a year

A vote on the measure, which would increase the current base pay of $110,000 a year, could be voted on as early as Thursday.

www.wxxinews.org

 

[Defilade]

Nice of them. They have to offset the inflation burden they caused and then some.

 

[Saltwater60]

Not a single republican voted for this crap.

Gov. Kathy Hochul avoids saying if she will sign or veto pay raises for NYS legislators

Gov. Kathy Hochul refused to say Friday whether she would block the legislative pay bump passed by the state lawmakers.

nypost.com

 

[Acer-m14]

Not a single republican voted for this crap.

Gov. Kathy Hochul avoids saying if she will sign or veto pay raises for NYS legislators

Gov. Kathy Hochul refused to say Friday whether she would block the legislative pay bump passed by the state lawmakers.

nypost.com

"Not a single Republican in either chamber voted for the pay raise that passed both chambers by narrow margins, despite Democrats’ big majorities in both chambers."

so how in the fk did it pass ? Dominion voting machines

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

Spending will continue to increase statewide, and taxes will go up to support it.

Taxpayers will keep leaving, and the cycle will continue.

NY pissed away the covid money that could have set the budget straight for a few years.

You thought that was a bailout? That was merely the first of many welfare checks.

Wait until you see the mess this state is going to be in after this bitches first full term.

At some point the federal government is going to have to intervene. I hope it is by force.