NYC gives NYPD power to involuntarily commit people to mental hospitals

[libertysnake]

New York City to start hospitalizing more mentally ill people involuntarily

New York City Mayor Eric Adams (D) revealed a new plan Tuesday to remove people with severe, untreated mental illness from city streets and subways. Under the plan, New York City agencies wo…

thehill.com

So now the NYPD are medical professionals apparently. Moreover, this solidifies that I will never work in an authoritarian place like NYC ever again.

To understand my train of thought, this means if arrested, police can commit you and then, therefore, strip you of your 2A rights for life. This is a massive overreach at the very least. This is a life altering choice, made against the will of a person.

This is what tyranny looks like.

 

[prambo]

What's that nasty, fetid odor?

Ho Lee Fuk!!!

It's the smell of Stalinism, with a dash of General Jinping's Sweet and Sour Maoism.

 

[Saltwater60]

This is an attempt to strip more 2a rights away from people. Yes there are mentally ill folks that should not have a gun for sure, but that doesn’t mean that one person should get to decide that. That’s why we have courts. It’s hilarious they won’t lock up a fucking criminal but they will others? Wow this state is going into the shorter faster than I thought. I’m speechless.

 

[spat]

Who needs due process ? Am I right ?

NY seems to have it in for the entire bill of rights.

They need to up their game on the 3rd though.

The closest they've got is not allowing a landlord to evict a non paying tenant who might be active duty....

 

[Mr. terzmo]

Their "opinion" could have all on this site sent away. This is just a "follower" on "red flag" law. Authorities send a person away...individuals have people investigated, with no consequences. Social Services with a "no knock" if "suspected" of child abuse. And more to follow, sad to write.

 

[Truebeliever]

New York City to start hospitalizing more mentally ill people involuntarily

New York City Mayor Eric Adams (D) revealed a new plan Tuesday to remove people with severe, untreated mental illness from city streets and subways. Under the plan, New York City agencies wo…

thehill.com

So now the NYPD are medical professionals apparently. Moreover, this solidifies that I will never work in an authoritarian place like NYC ever again.

To understand my train of thought, this means if arrested, police can commit you and then, therefore, strip you of your 2A rights for life. This is a massive overreach at the very least. This is a life altering choice, made against the will of a person.

This is what tyranny looks like.

You do realize that police officers in NYS do this every day? It’s nothing new. The cop can’t “commit “ you. He can make you go for the involuntary psych eval . It’s nothing new. It’s a routine thing in a cop’s duties. This announcement is just smoke and mirrors .

 

[99cummins]

You do realize that police officers in NYS do this every day? It’s nothing new. The cop can’t “commit “ you. He can make you go for the involuntary psych eval . It’s nothing new. It’s a routine thing in a cop’s duties. This announcement is just smoke and mirrors .

9.41 of ny mental hygiene law. 72 hour mental health evaluation. They go to ecmc around here. I believe 9.43 and 9.45 allows doctors, courts, crisis services and the like to do the same.

 

[Truebeliever]

9.41 of ny mental hygiene law. 72 hour mental health evaluation. They go to ecmc around here. I believe 9.43 and 9.45 allows doctors, courts, crisis services and the like to do the same.

It’s a revolving door. I had one person brought to the psych ward, released a few hours later, walked out of the hospital, immediately walked a few blocks away and attempted to commit suicide. And because their psych history is confidential, the public rarely knows how often this happens.
When I was a cop on routine patrol, we would get two to three EDP jobs a night. If we couldn’t get them become a “ voluntary”, our night was shot. We would be sitting on the guy at the hospital for hours, sometimes days ( getting reliefs) before the doctor made a decision to formally admit /commit them or cut them loose.

 

[GOPerfect]

This is nothing new. When used properly, it can be a great service to the community.

 

[SomeSoldier]

This is nothing new. When used properly, it can be a great service to the community.

Except cumhole closed most of the psych facilities.

 

[GOPerfect]

Except cumhole closed most of the psych facilities.

This is a fact. Shame as well. Many people that are locked up in jails and prison need to housed in a Mental institution, not a criminal one.

 

[Truebeliever]

This is a fact. Shame as well. Many people that are locked up in jails and prison need to housed in a Mental institution, not a criminal one.

They need both. The question isn’t if they are crazy but if they are criminally responsible. Big difference. And sometimes it’s the incarceration that brings out the crazy, not that they weren’t before , but not that crazy on the outside.

 

[GOPerfect]

They need both. The question isn’t if they are crazy but if they are criminally responsible. Big difference. And sometimes it’s the incarceration that brings out the crazy, not that they weren’t before , but not that crazy on the outside.

Very true indeed. Many of these people would do much better inside of a mental institution than behind bars in the local lockups.

In our Holding center in my County, there are dozens that will just keep getting pushed through the criminal justice system until they die. They don't even know where they are half the time.

 

[Truebeliever]

Very true indeed. Many of these people would do much better inside of a mental institution than behind bars in the local lockups.

In our Holding center in my County, there are dozens that will just keep getting pushed through the criminal justice system until they die. They don't even know where they are half the time.

Isn’t better they are in jail than in public? The psych doctor gives them medication, they stop being crazy enough to hold them, they are released. They go off the medication, then attack people. They go back to the psych ward, get medication, let back out The cycle goes round and round again. I have had EDP’s laugh after attacking people and cops as they are led away telling us , he will be out tomorrow. And he was . We even had our regulars In and out , time and time again.

 

[GOPerfect]

Isn’t better they are in jail than in public? The psych doctor gives them medication, they stop being crazy enough to hold them, they are released. They go off the medication, then attack people. They go back to the psych ward, get medication, let back out The cycle goes round and round again. I have had EDP’s laugh after attacking people and cops as they are led away telling us , he will be out tomorrow. And he was . We even had our regulars In and out , time and time again.

Oh absolutely, my comment was in regards to the comment of the Psych centers across the State being shut down over the past ten years or so. We used to have a nice Psych center here in Buffalo that used to do good work.

Without these being open, local jails are the next best thing.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Whorecul/James, party of two... Whorecul/James, party of two...

 

[Truebeliever]

Oh absolutely, my comment was in regards to the comment of the Psych centers across the State being shut down over the past ten years or so. We used to have a nice Psych center here in Buffalo that used to do good work.

Without these being open, local jails are the next best thing.

Actually, most were closed in the 1970s. And many were worse than prison

 

[GOPerfect]

Actually, most were closed in the 1970s. And many were worse than prison

The Buffalo Psych center is still open, but they have cut the beds down to just a few dozen. If society really wants to take Mental Health serious, a real change needs to occur.

Now me? I do not care one way or another. None of these mental patients mean anything to me. I guess as long as they are not near me, I do not care one way or the other.

 

[Acer-m14]

the Psych center here was closed down and is now a prison and parts of that are now shut down

Craig Colony Sonyea NY .. back in the days they even had a boy scout troop ..

i got to spend week long campout with them ..

we were like WTF at first having to share campsite with them ...

and then when got to meet them .. omg the fun we all had

back in the days there was also Psych center in Geneseo .. then it became a bread n breakfast hotel

 

[spat]

You do realize that police officers in NYS do this every day? It’s nothing new. The cop can’t “commit “ you. He can make you go for the involuntary psych eval . It’s nothing new. It’s a routine thing in a cop’s duties. This announcement is just smoke and mirrors .

So he can only arrest you for a few days.

You do understand that "routine" in NY does not mean OK.

It is quite routine in NY to violate the rights of the citizens.

 

[Truebeliever]

So he can only arrest you for a few days.

You do understand that "routine" in NY does not mean OK.

It is quite routine in NY to violate the rights of the citizens.

It’s routine everywhere in New York State and most of the country. Yes, it’s a scary power that has been misused in the past hence the SCOTUS case in the early 1970s that released the crazy people out onto the streets.
There are a lot of crazy people who are out on the streets ( or often the same crazy people) who need to be long term committed but can’t . Why? Because with the right medication, they are just sane enough to be released but a few hours later, the meds wear off and they are back to crazy . These are a large part of the homeless population, the people who push people in front of trains at the train stations that you see on the news, the same people who take a knife and start randomly stabbing people. Usually it’s not that public . They often hurt their family/caretakers or can’t care for themselves like in extreme ways no food , no heat, no clothing etc , going to the bathroom on themselves( sometimes eating it) etc.
You might say, get a mental hygiene warrant first. So now, instead of bringing that person directly to the hospital, we would have bring them to the court , still covered in their mess, just to have the judge say take him for an evaluation because the judge isn’t really an expert in it . And for immediate medical reasons, the cop could override the need to go directly to the courtroom anyway just like he could with anyone( prisoner )with a medical need. That process of needing a mental hygiene warrant would just prolong the process for that person who placed in custody for such a reason. The mental hygiene warrant is usually for when it’s not readily apparent that the person is a danger to themselves and the police have refused to force a person to undergo an examination.
The involuntary psych evaluation is routine but it’s a pain to the cop who had to babysit then to the hospital.

 

[spat]

It’s routine everywhere in New York State and most of the country. Yes, it’s a scary power that has been misused in the past hence the SCOTUS case in the early 1970s that released the crazy people out onto the streets.
There are a lot of crazy people who are out on the streets ( or often the same crazy people) who need to be long term committed but can’t . Why? Because with the right medication, they are just sane enough to be released but a few hours later, the meds wear off and they are back to crazy . These are a large part of the homeless population, the people who push people in front of trains at the train stations that you see on the news, the same people who take a knife and start randomly stabbing people. Usually it’s not that public . They often hurt their family/caretakers or can’t care for themselves like in extreme ways no food , no heat, no clothing etc , going to the bathroom on themselves( sometimes eating it) etc.
You might say, get a mental hygiene warrant first. So now, instead of bringing that person directly to the hospital, we would have bring them to the court , still covered in their mess, just to have the judge say take him for an evaluation because the judge isn’t really an expert in it . And for immediate medical reasons, the cop could override the need to go directly to the courtroom anyway just like he could with anyone( prisoner )with a medical need. That process of needing a mental hygiene warrant would just prolong the process for that person who placed in custody for such a reason. The mental hygiene warrant is usually for when it’s not readily apparent that the person is a danger to themselves and the police have refused to force a person to undergo an examination.
The involuntary psych evaluation is routine but it’s a pain to the cop who had to babysit then to the hospital.

Or, say, you wait until they commit and actual crime with an actual victim.

Then convict them and lock them up for a long time.

That sounds a lot better than putting them away 3 days at a time and then letting them back out.

The problem is not that it's too hard to incarcerate people. The problem is that no matter how easy it is to lock them up, it will do no good if they don't stay there.

 

[Truebeliever]

Or, say, you wait until they commit and actual crime with an actual victim.

Then convict them and lock them up for a long time.

That sounds a lot better than putting them away 3 days at a time and then letting them back out.

The problem is not that it's too hard to incarcerate people. The problem is that no matter how easy it is to lock them up, it will do no good if they don't stay there.

They do commit crimes . That’s why a lot of them are in jail/prison as some are complaining that they don’t belong there.
And we do want to get them off the street before they commit a serious crime like push someone in front of a train or murder their kids etc.

 

[GOPerfect]

Who is complaining that they are in jail?

 

[spat]

They do commit crimes . That’s why a lot of them are in jail/prison as some are complaining that they don’t belong there.
And we do want to get them off the street before they commit a serious crime like push someone in front of a train or murder their kids etc.

No, we absolutely do *not* want to lock people up because we think they *might* commit a crime.

They have made several movies about that.

It's almost as bad an idea as putting an AI in charge of your robot military.

Once they have been proven to have committed a crime however, we want to keep them locked up until we have a high degree of confidence that they won't do it again.

I don't care much *why* they hurt their victim, whether it was mental illness, greed, passion, political will, or whatever else, they just need to not be able to do it again.

 

[Truebeliever]

No, we absolutely do *not* want to lock people up because we think they *might* commit a crime.

They have made several movies about that.

It's almost as bad an idea as putting an AI in charge of your robot military.

Once they have been proven to have committed a crime however, we want to keep them locked up until we have a high degree of confidence that they won't do it again.

I don't care much *why* they hurt their victim, whether it was mental illness, greed, passion, political will, or whatever else, they just need to not be able to do it again.

If they are crazy and a danger to themselves, we sure as hell want to take them off the streets . They go to the psych ward for an evaluation. That simple .
Go look at the aurora shooter. He said what he was going to do. Cruz said what he was going to do and if Sheriffs Iserael’s woke policies weren’t involved, he would have been committed to a psych ward. Or at at least under therapy.

 

[spat]

If they are crazy and a danger to themselves, we sure as hell want to take them off the streets . They go to the psych ward for an evaluation. That simple .
Go look at the aurora shooter. He said what he was going to do. Cruz said what he was going to do and if Sheriffs Iserael’s woke policies weren’t involved, he would have been committed to a psych ward. Or at at least under therapy.

Nope.

Doesn't matter how many people have to die, I don't want to live in minority report.

Under no circumstances should law enforcement attempt to be proactive.

Some things are not worth the cost, no matter how effective they are.

 

[Truebeliever]

Nope.

Doesn't matter how many people have to die, I don't want to live in minority report.

Under no circumstances should law enforcement attempt to be proactive.

Some things are not worth the cost, no matter how effective they are.

It’s not like minority report. It has to be a clear and present . If you saw a stubbling drunk with car keys in their hand , heading to their car, should you wait until they get into the car and start it before attempting to stop him? Or should the cop stop him, call an ambulance to have him sleep it off at the hospital?
If you wait until they are actually behind the wheel , you might not be able to stop them. And then arrest them for the crime that could have been prevented. Minority report is to punish them to prevent the crime. Big difference.

Crazy isn’t enough. They have to be a danger to themselves or others . And even then, it’s not the cop who decides if they get committed. Most people who are taken to the psych ward are not committed, and released .

 

[spat]

It’s not like minority report. It has to be a clear and present . If you saw a stubbling drunk with car keys in their hand , heading to their car, should you wait until they get into the car and start it before attempting to stop him? Or should the cop stop him, call an ambulance to have him sleep it off at the hospital?
If you wait until they are actually behind the wheel , you might not be able to stop them.

Crazy isn’t enough. They have to be a danger to themselves or others . And even then, it’s not the cop who decides if they get committed. Most people who are taken to the psych ward are not committed, and released .

Yea, you *should* wait till he drives off.

For all you know he's planning to sleep it off in the back seat until he actually starts rolling.

The foundation of *any* reasonable justice system is "innocent until proven guilty". It doesn't matter how strongly you think someone is about to commit a crime, until they do you have to treat them as innocent.

You freely admit that cops are arresting people and locking them up for days on a psych hold and *most* of them are found not to be dangerous ?

That means it's not even probable cause. If you send 5 guys to a psych evaluation and 3 of them are just turned loose after evaluation, then *you* are a greater danger to the public than the crazies.

 

[Acer-m14]

If you saw a stubbling drunk with car keys in their hand , heading to their car, should you wait until they get into the car and start it before attempting to stop him?

i do that all the time .. im the DD .. designated decoy ..

I stumble out the bar with keys in hand and tries the keys in as many cars as i can while
stumbling up the line of parked cars ..

coast clear bros ...