NYC permit denial and court challenge

[NYCGuy]

I certainly commend you for fighting this. I hope you have the time, money, and fortitude to do so. Unless you appeal and pay a lawyer you have zero chance of getting your permit.

I don’t agree with it but they look at the history and say you have a history of defying laws and rules like traffic laws and stay out of park after dark rules. You admit you have many of these recently. They know you likely won’t follow handgun restrictions(those should be illegal anyway). There have been people denied for too many traffic tickets.
Good luck and lawsuits are the only way to change this ass backwards system.

Not recently, the park after dark was when I was 18. I’m in my early 30’s now. I got two of them, I believe one at 17 and one at 18, one was dismissed. I don’t think you can grow up as an active kid in nyc and not get one of those tickets lol. Cops hunt after teens doing simple dumb shit like Jay walking, etc.

Hanging out with some friends and chicks when I was 18 in a park after dark is irrelevant to my moral character. There are probably a couple thousand NYPD officers actually convicted of misdemeanor crimes walking around these streets harrassing kids that don’t yet know how the petty shit will affect their lives.

That’s one good thing coming out of the radical left movement, the NYPD has to be more courteous to people now and stop acting like this city is a hunting ground, grabbing kids that don’t know their rights, searching them for no reason just because of where they live or how they dress. It’s like the goal used to be to make sure all the city kids got in trouble for something so they couldn’t get gun permits later LOL.

It’s easy for suburban kids that have big backyards and pools and soccer moms to stay outta places where the Police can grab you and harrass you. For city kids man I was lucky enough to actually grow up in a house with a backyard but a lot of my friends didn’t have that and their backyard was the city public park.

I’m of the opinion that it should really be against the law to bring up anything that was dismissed it just goes against the core of this country’s principles. If you were not proven guilty, how can you be held accountable for it in any way shape or form? How can your rights be curtailed bases on accusations alone? And how can judges forget that we are innocent until proven guilty. When you remove the stuff that was dismissed. I have one traffic ticket and one park after dark ticket. If that’s enough to deny me ok but don’t use stuff that was dismissed because that’s just the worst violation of one’s citizenship I can fathom. You beat the wrap but they still beat you down for life lol.

 

[Chevusa]

Not recently, the park after dark was when I was 18. I’m in my early 30’s now. I got two of them, I believe one at 17 and one at 18, one was dismissed. I don’t think you can grow up as an active kid in nyc and not get one of those tickets lol. Cops hunt after teens doing simple dumb shit like Jay walking, etc.

Hanging out with some friends and chicks when I was 18 in a park after dark is irrelevant to my moral character. There are probably a couple thousand NYPD officers actually convicted of misdemeanor crimes walking around these streets harrassing kids that don’t yet know how the petty shit will affect their lives.

That’s one good thing coming out of the radical left movement, the NYPD has to be more courteous to people now and stop acting like this city is a hunting ground, grabbing kids that don’t know their rights, searching them for no reason just because of where they live or how they dress. It’s like the goal used to be to make sure all the city kids got in trouble for something so they couldn’t get gun permits later LOL.

It’s easy for suburban kids that have big backyards and pools and soccer moms to stay outta places where the Police can grab you and harrass you. For city kids man I was lucky enough to actually grow up in a house with a backyard but a lot of my friends didn’t have that and their backyard was the city public park.

I’m of the opinion that it should really be against the law to bring up anything that was dismissed it just goes against the core of this country’s principles. If you were not proven guilty, how can you be held accountable for it in any way shape or form? How can your rights be curtailed bases on accusations alone? And how can judges forget that we are innocent until proven guilty. When you remove the stuff that was dismissed. I have one traffic ticket and one park after dark ticket. If that’s enough to deny me ok but don’t use stuff that was dismissed because that’s just the worst violation of one’s citizenship I can fathom. You beat the wrap but they still beat you down for life lol.

Not being found guilty in court doesn’t necessarily mean that what you did was right. Unfortunately in NY they are allowed to deny based on their interpretation of your character. It is an individual feeling or belief of the judge. Other states “shall issue” will give out the permit as long as you are not a prohibited person. Not the case around here. Pistols are privileges in this state.

 

[NYCGuy]

“Not being found guilty in court doesn’t necessarily mean that what you did was right.”

Not being ever arrested for anything doesn’t mean you never committed a crime right? If we use that mentality we have to assume everybody can be a criminal. We have a system that judges people and convicts and sentences. We don’t need the media or police to use their feelings or belief about someone to judge them.

I mean I guess you’re talking about the one off scenario if someone was arrested for an armed roberry and their attorney got them off on a technicality, the police want to know about that before they give them a gun permit. But I still disagree with that because the system that judges you legally is already in place. This made up bullshit process runs not only counter second amendment, it’s runs against many other “rights“ we supposedly have.

 

[Chevusa]

Not being ever arrested for anything doesn’t mean you never committed a crime right? If we use that mentality we have to assume everybody can be a criminal. We have a system that judges people and convicts and sentences. We don’t need the media or police to use their feelings or belief about someone to judge them.

I mean I guess you’re talking about the one off scenario if someone was arrested for an armed roberry and their attorney got them off on a technicality, the police want to know about that before they give them a gun permit. But I still disagree with that because the system that judges you legally is already in place. This made up bullshit process runs not only counter second amendment, it’s runs against many other “rights“ we supposedly have.

Not the same thing at all. If there was just cause for an arrest that is all a judge needs to see in this process. The problem compiles when there is a pattern of it happening more than once. Judges can let people off easy for a magnitude of reasons. There are many reasons people are not convicted of the full charge. It doesn’t mean you didn’t do the crime. The arrest itself is proper cause for denial in NY the way the process has been established. The licensing officer had wide berth for denial. Again this is a privilege in NY. Get your buddies around the city to stop voting for Cuomo and other D’s.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

You're both correct depending on your location. If NYCGuy was in PA he would be good to go and well on his way to buying a machine gun. Chev is correct because that's currently the reality in NY. So the root of this is the May issue vs Must issue... issue. How the 9 states that are may issue (only 9 out of 50 should tell you something) have been able to get away with that scheme even though it flies directly in the face of federal law is a mystery. Well not really. It's a combination of no one ever challenging it, the fed not doing anything about it and like Chev said people voting in the same old suspects that are allowed to rule with tyranny.

IMO you'd have a better chance getting the tyrants out of office than fighting from the inside and winning. The chances of getting the tyrants out is already dismal to none so take that as you will. There is simply too much corruption from top to bottom in NY.

 

[BDinPutnam]

You're both correct depending on your location. If NYCGuy was in PA he would be good to go and well on his way to buying a machine gun. Chev is correct because that's currently the reality in NY. So the root of this is the May issue vs Must issue... issue. How the 9 states that are may issue (only 9 out of 50 should tell you something) have been able to get away with that scheme even though it flies directly in the face of federal law is a mystery. Well not really. It's a combination of no one ever challenging it, the fed not doing anything about it and like Chev said people voting in the same old suspects that are allowed to rule with tyranny.

IMO you'd have a better chance getting the tyrants out of office than fighting from the inside and winning. The chances of getting the tyrants out is already dismal to none so take that as you will. There is simply too much corruption from top to bottom in NY.

I agree woth you broadly but what "federal law" are you referring to?

 

[NYCGuy]

I think he means supreme court presedence or federal firearm ownership standards which as we can see neither apply to New York. Lol

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I agree woth you broadly but what "federal law" are you referring to?

Identify Prohibited Persons | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives > 18 U.S. Code § 927 - Effect on State law

And of course 2A

 

[NYCGuy]

Identify Prohibited Persons | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives > 18 U.S. Code § 927 - Effect on State law

And of course 2A

Oops, I forgot that was a thing

 

[1Self]

Oops, I forgot that was a thing

2A?
Don't forget. They're counting on people forgetting. Never forget!

 

[GOPerfect]

We have read these types of stories for years in regards to the garbage that comes out of NYC permit offices.

I wish I had the answer you are searching for. A good lawyer is where I would begin. If this is the fight you are willing to fight, start and do not conclude the fight until you win. You are correct, if not you, who? Too often, people want something and stop fighting at the first hurdle.

I can only wish you luck and hope it works out for you.

 

[Shadow2]

Email Alan Gura and see if the case has any merits he'd like to pursue include a copy of your denial. Unfortunately if you read or listen to 2A cases here in NY the judges just don't give a flying shit. Local lawyer should be able to appeal it.

 

[Truebeliever]

Hello all, i’ve been reluctant to join any of these forums and post anything for fear it would hurt my case or just superstition in regard to talking about stuff before it happens. I was denied both rifle/shotgun permit and premises pistol license a couple years back. The bases being that almost 10 years ago an ex girlfriend accused me of assault which of course leads to a mandatory arrest and charge of DV. In my first court appearance (the night of my arrest) I was issued a restraining order which is also automatic. This alone can create significant legal challenges for someone because if you’re dealing with a jealous ex, and you can’t answer their phone calls because of a restraining order, it can quickly turn into a felony for violating the RO. Me not answering her calls lead her to walk into a police precinct drunk at 3am and accuse me without proof, of violating the RO and threatening her. This alone is enough for a felony charge. By the grace of God, the seasoned detective that took her statement called me the next morning to tell me what happened and that he did not believe her so he was not going to come arrest me for violating the RO. He did warn me that this girl was a serious problem for me and I should stay away from her for good. On my second court appearance the DA moved to dismiss the case, my attorney learned she had retracted her original accusation. The case was dismissed and sealed without prejudice. This is the biggest of “red flags”. I got a couple of “trespassing in a (public) park after dark” tickets when I was like 18/19 hanging out with friends in the park and a few (4) traffic violations over a 10 yr period as I live in nyc which is a mindfield to drive in. I think all but one were dismissed (improper turn). I am a homeowner, I have a wife and young child. I financially support my parents and my little brother who is going to college and I have a professional job. I hired a professional to assist with my applications and we thoroughly disclosed everything. However, 6-8 months later, denied on both even though my handgun interview went very well and I saw the interviewing officer write “no reason to deny”. Prior to the shotgun denial which came first, I received a phone call from the investigator, she said there was a second complaint and report from my ex, at first I wasn’t sure what she was talking about because I was arrested only once and each complaint filed should automatically generate an arrest. But then I realized she was speaking about the incident with the detective that called me. My best friend and best man at my wedding is an NYPD Lieutenant soon to be Captain (I know he can’t help me get a permit, that’s not where I am going) he advised me that if their was a report filed based on the complaint I should have been given a copy of it while being arrested for it because there is no wiggle room, once the report is generated, an arrest must accompany it. All these years I was under the impression the Detective never filed a formal report for that second complaint because he told me he did not believe her and was not going to have me arrested. The investigator asked me to write up an explation stating exactly what I have written here, I did and I submitted it. I was denied based on the allegation/arrest without conviction and for receiving two summonses for being in a park after dark. Then came my handgun interview where I verbally mentioned this to the interviewer but she brushed it off as if it’s no big deal. Then came my denial for handgun license which stated it was because I had “two domestics”, one of which “I failed to disclose on my written appication.” I had no knowledge there was a formal second complaint and would have gladly included it because I think it evidences that both allegations had no merit. Appeals were denied as well. Now I am looking to fight them in federal court as the state courts will surely just make me waste money for the same outcome. However, it appears the lower courts will be emboldened by the fact that SCOTUS just denied 10 second amendment cases. Reading through some other cases it is evident that the district and circuit courts covering the NY area have complete disregard for the established federal standards of firearm ownership and have consistently backed up the state’s or local government’s discretion in determining what the requirements/ qualifications should be, even for home premise. Hope this was an interesting read. Sorry for the long post, just felt like venting after being involved in this ridiculousl process for 3 years now. Not really looking for advice per say as I am pretty much taking this as far as I can. I fully expect to lose in district and second circuit and expect to never get infront of supreme court. I can move my family to Florida and forget about the cold and having no rights but it seems silly to move away over this. Just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are around this and wanted to share my experience for those who may be in similar situations. And know that even though hope is very limited, there are those of us out there willing to carry on and see this through.

This isn’t a 2nd case. It’s a due process case. You were never arrested nor a warrant issued for your arrest. You were not given a chance to refute the allegation in court therefore it should not be held against you unless the statue of limitations has passed or they can say they believe you are a threat now. But the question I would bring out to the judge that you would go for the article 78 if at the state level is , “ why didn’t she mention it at the court case where she recanted the first charges?

The problem you have is the “pattern of behavior” from your youth with all of this. They will claim you are a current risk.
My suggestion is apply for a security guard license then go for an armed security “ promotion” . It’s now interfering with your livelihood and more of a factor to a judge .

 

[BDinPutnam]

Email Alan Gura and see if the case has any merits he'd like to pursue include a copy of your denial. Unfortunately if you read or listen to 2A cases here in NY the judges just don't give a flying shit. Local lawyer should be able to appeal it.

Paloma?

 

[NYCGuy]

FYI I know somebody who was just denied in federal court over a similar issue. Upon his appeal the NYPD immediately issued him a permit in an attempt to make the case moot. Now their game is ever so clear, they will put as many obstacles in your way as possible even though they absolutely know they are wrong in doing so, until it reaches a point where they may lose. I hope people reading this who may have a similar situation realize that now is the time to take them to court and fight for your rights.

 

[spat]

FYI I know somebody who was just denied in federal court over a similar issue. Upon his appeal the NYPD immediately issued him a permit in an attempt to make the case moot. Now their game is ever so clear, they will put as many obstacles in your way as possible even though they absolutely know they are wrong in doing so, until it reaches a point where they may lose. I hope people reading this who may have a similar situation realize that now is the time to take them to court and fight for your rights.

What they need is a concerted effort with multiple plaintiffs.

They need everyone who gets denied to sign on and then *add* new plaintiffs as they go.

It should be a commonly known part of the process (drop your paperwork off at 1PP, then sign on to the lawsuit, that's just the process...)

Forcing NYC to either litigate it all the way up, or become defacto shall issue.

 

[NYCGuy]

What they need is a concerted effort with multiple plaintiffs.

They need everyone who gets denied to sign on and then *add* new plaintiffs as they go.

It should be a commonly known part of the process (drop your paperwork off at 1PP, then sign on to the lawsuit, that's just the process...)

Forcing NYC to either litigate it all the way up, or become defacto shall issue.

I wish there was a triple like button!!! Even cattle walk in unison. We can’t seem to get a few dozen together to fight for our rights. Anyone interested DM me!

 

[Saltwater60]

I wish there was a triple like button!!! Even cattle walk in unison. We can’t seem to get a few dozen together to fight for our rights. Anyone interested DM me!

Great job. Go get them. I agree with you. I hope you prevail for all of us!!

 

[WhyLeftiesGlorifyNY]

Old thread.
How long does it take the NYPD to finish a home premise pistol permit appeals denial ?

​

 

[Jmac00]

Old thread.
How long does it take the NYPD to finish a home premise pistol permit appeals denial ?

​

who cares, Im outa here tomorrow, Good luck to all thats left in this political shithole

 

[NYCGuy]

Old thread.
How long does it take the NYPD to finish a home premise pistol permit appeals denial ?

​

Lol don’t bother appealing unless you hire a real 2A attorney and even then chances are only like 10% in your favor. Maybe if you threaten a federal lawsuit they may get scared and offer you a permit to drop the lawsuit. That’s what happened to me but I told them to go fuck themselves anyway. Waiting for SCOTUS

 

[crunchberry]

Waste of time and money imo. Hardly any gun licenses are given to civilians in NYC.

 

[NYCGuy]

Just so everybody’s up-to-date. When my licenses were denied originally, I was referred an attorney that supposedly specializes in this by the gentleman that assisted in preparing my application. The attorney said I had a 70% shot of winning since I had never been convicted of a crime and the arrest took place many years ago. He pretended to be my friend and 100% in my corner. Of course the appeals were denied. He promised he would take care of the second level of appeal as well (included) in flat fee that he charged me in the first place. He then pretended that he forgot about that conversation and wanted to charge me for another appeal. So I told him that he was just as bad as the cops in the licensing office because he was stealing my money knowing that I was not going to get a license.

I hired another attorney who quickly recommended federal court would be the only place we would find any remedy since the state courts do not care and simply go along with what the NYPD says. I was denied in the district court (as expected) and once my appeal was submitted to the second circuit and docketed, the NYPD reached out to my attorney and offered me the permit in exchange for me dropping the case (4 years later).

I told my attorney the only way I would drop the case is if they issue me a lifetime full carry permit LOL. Looks like SCOTUS case is going to beat me to it.

 

[dean3690]

I was terribly disappointed that the plaintiff attorneys in the NYSRPA v. Bruen case seemed to exclude NYC in their oral arguments as if NYS and NYC are not in the same state. No citizen of any city in NYS should be exempt from exercising their rights. Not in Albany, Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester or NYC. There is one constitutional right for 1st amendment throughout the state and nation and there should be one right for the 2nd and all others as well.

 

[NYCGuy]

I was terribly disappointed that the plaintiff attorneys in the NYSRPA v. Bruen case seemed to exclude NYC in their oral arguments as if NYS and NYC are not in the same state. No citizen of any city in NYS should be exempt from exercising their rights. Not in Albany, Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester or NYC. There is one constitutional right for 1st amendment throughout the state and nation and there should be one right for the 2nd and all others as well.

The entire brief by the bland Mr. Clement was a dissapointment. What can you expect from a seasoned political operative? He basically agreed to reasonable restrictions which is exactly why we are still here 13 years after Heller. If they put that wording in their decision again, you can forget about this issue ever getting fully resolved.

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[NYCGuy]

Lol. He’s a bit too optimistic. They will likely leave room for continued skewed interpretation. Chief Justice Roberts will join the majority to make sure of it!

 

[WhyLeftiesGlorifyNY]

I like this one..

 

[Celt]

Just so everybody’s up-to-date. When my licenses were denied originally, I was referred an attorney that supposedly specializes in this by the gentleman that assisted in preparing my application. The attorney said I had a 70% shot of winning since I had never been convicted of a crime and the arrest took place many years ago. He pretended to be my friend and 100% in my corner. Of course the appeals were denied. He promised he would take care of the second level of appeal as well (included) in flat fee that he charged me in the first place. He then pretended that he forgot about that conversation and wanted to charge me for another appeal. So I told him that he was just as bad as the cops in the licensing office because he was stealing my money knowing that I was not going to get a license.

I hired another attorney who quickly recommended federal court would be the only place we would find any remedy since the state courts do not care and simply go along with what the NYPD says. I was denied in the district court (as expected) and once my appeal was submitted to the second circuit and docketed, the NYPD reached out to my attorney and offered me the permit in exchange for me dropping the case (4 years later).

I told my attorney the only way I would drop the case is if they issue me a lifetime full carry permit LOL. Looks like SCOTUS case is going to beat me to it.

I applaud your tenacity.

 

[Jmac00]

Just so everybody’s up-to-date. When my licenses were denied originally, I was referred an attorney that supposedly specializes in this by the gentleman that assisted in preparing my application. The attorney said I had a 70% shot of winning since I had never been convicted of a crime and the arrest took place many years ago. He pretended to be my friend and 100% in my corner. Of course the appeals were denied. He promised he would take care of the second level of appeal as well (included) in flat fee that he charged me in the first place. He then pretended that he forgot about that conversation and wanted to charge me for another appeal. So I told him that he was just as bad as the cops in the licensing office because he was stealing my money knowing that I was not going to get a license.

I hired another attorney who quickly recommended federal court would be the only place we would find any remedy since the state courts do not care and simply go along with what the NYPD says. I was denied in the district court (as expected) and once my appeal was submitted to the second circuit and docketed, the NYPD reached out to my attorney and offered me the permit in exchange for me dropping the case (4 years later).

I told my attorney the only way I would drop the case is if they issue me a lifetime full carry permit LOL. Looks like SCOTUS case is going to beat me to it.

this is why no one like lawyers.