NYSRPA v. Bruen, NY 2A Case Supreme Court case and decision

[Celt]

Can they make you get a NYC pistol permit? I have a NYS a permit and NYC is part of NYS. Maybe they could make you if they have stricter training requirements, but I don’t see that being constitutional either.

My permit says "NOT VALID IN NYC". I am unaware of any mechanism that allows a NY, but not NYC resident, who does not own a business in NYC, get a NYC permit.

I believe this ruling will require the city to have a process for that.

The ruling also makes it so that current residents and NYC business owners can now get carry permits and they dont have to deal with PREMISE ONLY permits.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Did he green light them? Yes he brought attention to them, but I think he kind of fired a warning shot across the bow to say not everything in your little minds are sensitive places. From what I saw he said yes there are sensitive places where firearms can be restricted, but this too have to be steeped in history. I guess time will tell.

My first time reading/listening to the opinion it almost sounded like he gave the green light to sensitive places just not a whole city

After my 2nd go around (listening to FPC panel on the opinion)

those areas also need to be routed in history.

I still think he left a door open, but not as wide open as I initially thought or how most on here expect things to go.

Problem is it was left open enough (because that wasn't the scope of the initial case) that NY will list as many sensitive places as possible, knowing it would lose in court, just to make things difficult until they make it to court if ever

 

[Edwardteach72]

I just called the Westchester licensing Division department and this is what they had to say: if you are calling regarding the supreme court decision. We are currently awaiting procedural instructions from our licensing officers and New York State Police. No further information is available"
what a load of crap.

How can they have any further information.. the ruling is barely 24 hours old. They found out at the same time you and all of us did

 

[Truebeliever]

We will have to see how this all shakes out, but to me New York City will either have to recognize New York state permits, which I don't see being very likely, or they will have to have a permit process where anyone can apply and get a permit for New York City. As a non New York City resident I want the ability to carry in New York City because that's where I work. The next problem is they will make permits valid for 1 year with expensive and time-consuming renewal processes.

Also, I wonder if this will open up the door to force New York to provide non-resident permits.

It looks like NYC will have to open up its special permit process to you. But they will definitely treat you to a bureaucratic nightmare in getting it done.

 

[Truebeliever]

Can they make you get a NYC pistol permit? I have a NYS a permit and NYC is part of NYS. Maybe they could make you if they have stricter training requirements, but I don’t see that being constitutional either.

If NYC opens its permit system to you to apply, it might survive a court challenge. The ability for retired officer’s permits to be valid in NYC isn’t that old.

And I think the only way the anti gunners plan to make getting permits harder will pass a objective court standard is going to be a training requirement. Get ready because it’s coming . It might be the armed security guard standard.

 

[Edwardteach72]

training requirement. Get ready because it’s coming . It might be the armed security guard standard.

Show me in the text, as informed by History and Tradition, where it says training was required

 

[spat]

A Right delayed is a Right denied.
someone should apply and, when they are told it is on hold, immediately sue the State of New York for requiring it in the first place.

This is going to get very interesting soon.

The problem with that strategy is that it will always be approved or denied long before you can get a case to scotus, and if you are just suing to force them to issue the permit, the case will be dismissed as moot once that happens.

That effectively gives them a couple years to sit on it before finally issuing the permit just before your case is granted cert.

People need to add damages for this stuff. Even if you just sue for $1 for the violation of your rights, that means the case doesn't die as soon as they stop violating.

 

[spat]

Someone has to explain that the ruling doesn’t change much except equal access to a permit. People still have to pass the background check, get any training requirements if imposed that are reasonable.

It doesn't change anything for 95% of the people in the country.

It doesn't even change stuff for the people in upstate NY that live in counties with defacto shall issue.

But it is a game changer for the people who were suffering the most.

 

[Celt]

It looks like NYC will have to open up its special permit process to you. But they will definitely treat you to a bureaucratic nightmare in getting it done.

I know they will, it will be a nightmare

 

[Edwardteach72]

It doesn't change anything for 95% of the people in the country.

It doesn't even change stuff for the people in upstate NY that live in counties with defacto shall issue.

But it is a game changer for the people who were suffering the most.

Not immediate change.. but this case sets up near future changes for everyone in this and other states

 

[Truebeliever]

Show me in the text, as informed by History and Tradition, where it says training was required

I believe it’s in Kavanaugh’s concurring opinion. Permits weren’t around in 1800 either. His concurring opinion upholds a shall issue permit system.

 

[Truebeliever]

It doesn't change anything for 95% of the people in the country.

It doesn't even change stuff for the people in upstate NY that live in counties with defacto shall issue.

But it is a game changer for the people who were suffering the most.

Yep. The majority of the country , it doesn’t change anything for them.

 

[RDN]

Not so fast…

View attachment 163473

Lee Zelin supports Bruen
Lee Zelin for NY governor

 

[Edwardteach72]

I believe it’s in Kavanaugh’s concurring opinion. Permits weren’t around in 1800 either. His concurring opinion upholds a shall issue permit system.

His concurring opinion isn't the opinion of the court

 

[spat]

Show me in the text, as informed by History and Tradition, where it says training was required

Militia act of 1792

Militia Acts of 1792 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"... each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside ...
"

Militia members were required to equip themselves with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a box able to contain not less than 24 suitable cartridges, and a knapsack. Alternatively, everyone enrolled was to provide himself with a rifle, a powder horn, ¼ pound of gunpowder, 20 rifle balls, a shot-pouch, and a knapsack.[10] Exemptions applied to some occupations, including congressmen, stagecoach drivers and ferryboatmen.

*Mandatory* gun ownership and training is not off the table.

Imagine requiring everyone to have an AR and show up with 200 rounds loaded in magazines one weekend every year for training.

I bet the media would have to drop most of their misinformation pretty fast then.

I also bet home invasions would drop pretty quick too.

 

[Darth]

It doesn't change anything for 95% of the people in the country.

It doesn't even change stuff for the people in upstate NY that live in counties with defacto shall issue.

But it is a game changer for the people who were suffering the most.

NYC carry? For upstate?

 

[spat]

NYC carry? For upstate?

TBH, many upstaters have no desire to step foot in that shithole, so it doesn't affect them much.

Might as well get reciprocity to Haiti.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Militia act of 1792

Militia Acts of 1792 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"... each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside ...
"

Militia members were required to equip themselves with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a box able to contain not less than 24 suitable cartridges, and a knapsack. Alternatively, everyone enrolled was to provide himself with a rifle, a powder horn, ¼ pound of gunpowder, 20 rifle balls, a shot-pouch, and a knapsack.[10] Exemptions applied to some occupations, including congressmen, stagecoach drivers and ferryboatmen.

*Mandatory* gun ownership and training is not off the table.

Imagine requiring everyone to have an AR and show up with 200 rounds loaded in magazines one weekend every year for training.

I bet the media would have to drop most of their misinformation pretty fast then.

I also bet home invasions would drop pretty quick too.

Cool so that talks about the militia.

Then there is a coma talking about the right of the people.

Want another try

 

[Saltwater60]

I like this guy. Too bad Scalia didn’t live to see this day. Thomas and Alito carried it for him.

Samuel Alito lashes out at liberals in guns case as tensions boil over at SCOTUS

That Alito chose to also strike out alone against the dissenters highlights the current tension on the court

amp.cnn.com

 

[Beerman]

I’ll have cake, please. With whipped cream from a can. (I’m old enough to purchase, possess and consume.)

 

[spat]

Cool so that talks about the militia.

Then there is a coma talking about the right of the people.

Want another try

It is historical evidence that training requirements were acceptable. Written by the very people who wrote the constitution and bill of rights.


Mind you, this wasn't a training requirement to be allowed to carry a gun. This was a training requirement period. You were expected to show up for training, and expected to bring a "military style" rifle and ammunition.

I think we should add the basic firearm training to the elementary school curriculum. Then a 6th grade diploma is all you need.

If the government wants people trained, they should provide it universally and at no cost.

 

[Truebeliever]

His concurring opinion isn't the opinion of the court

Concurring opinions are used as precedent. along with the majority opinion. It’s why the “ shall issue” permit system isn’t challenged in this decision. He is also speaking for other members of the court. If someone were to attempt to challenge the permit system, it would go back up the chain and the permit system would be found constitutional. They would have the votes.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Concurring opinions are used as precedent. along with the majority opinion. It’s why the “ shall issue” permit system isn’t challenged in this decision. He is also speaking for other members of the court. If someone were to attempt to challenge the permit system, it would go back up the chain and the permit system would be found constitutional. They would have the votes.

Shall issue wasn't challenged in this case because that wasn't what the case was about to start with

 

[camper4lyfe]

Yep. The majority of the country , it doesn’t change anything for them.

It doesn't change anything for them....right now.

The scrutiny level that Thomas laid out sets a pretty high standard of proof for the GOVERNMENT, reversing what was once a need for proof by the PEOPLE when arguing unconstitutional 2A laws.

 

[Celt]

TBH, many upstaters have no desire to step foot in that shithole, so it doesn't affect them much.

Might as well get reciprocity to Haiti.

I live upstate, but work in the city so it effects me quite a bit. But I get that I am in a severe minority.

 

[Zerex]

Will the two guys who filed the original lawsuit, to get their "hunting, target"hiking, camping" restrictions from their permits lifted, ultimately have them lifted......like today, by the local Judge?

I sincerely doubt it.

In any case, no matter what Hochul does in the meanwhile, the case was remanded back to the lower Fed Court, for implementation of the SCOTUS decision.
That means the Court will allow..... go to gunshop, buy pistol for home, pass NICS and go home with pistol...Legislature will likely have to pass such a law....................EVENTUALLY

Concealed Carry Permits, will be "shall issue"------- without restrictions like hunting camping, target, hiking. Court will allow restrictions/requirements, like NRA CC training course, f-prints, NICS, Mental, and usual county DELAYS for obtaining a permit.

Question is of course, will us current NYS Permit Holders, have our restrictions lifted automatically, so we can carry........ or do we have to re-apply? I just renewed by PP for the next 5 years.

The Semi Auto rifle law Hochul passed, is almost exactly the same as the PP law, that was declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS...AOW law too....maybe even Ghost Gun law.

I can see why Cathy Torquemadae is going insane...a person who buys a gun for the home without a permit, EVENTUALLY,.......... might carry that gun anyway.

 

[Edwardteach72]

In any case, no matter what Hochul does in the meanwhile, the case was remanded back to the lower Fed Court, for implementation of the SCOTUS decision.
That means the Court will allow..... go to gunshop, buy pistol for home, pass NICS and go home with pistol...Legislature will likely have to pass such a law....................EVENTUALLY

No it doesnt

 

[Zerex]

43 states currently have shall issue CC laws.................soon 6 more will join them.

Mag laws, Safe Act, will have to wait until the new semi auto Hochul law is declared unconstitutional.
Cathy hates the fixed mag, full featured AR15's.

 

[Zerex]

How do you figure that?.........SCOTUS decision will be implemented by the Fed Court......... and State Legislature will have to obey.

Thomas, in the first few paragraphs of the decision mentioned, that NYS's prohibition of simply buying a gun for home defense only, was unconstitutional, let alone the Gov't official deciding about CC.

 

[Saltwater60]

Show me in the text, as informed by History and Tradition, where it says training was required

I agree but the ruling talked about allowing for training to be part of the permitting process. Confusion, you betcha.