NYSRPA v. Bruen, NY 2A Case Supreme Court case and decision

[spat]

What happens if NY pistol permit offices just ignore the ruling? I don't see how NYC could possibly honor it.

Then a lot of lawyers are going to get very rich.

People will sue for damages.

Once word gets out that you can make an easy $100k by applying for a pistol permit and getting turned down, the entire population of the city will apply...

 

[spat]

It seems like that will be the case. Which is now even MORE arbitrary and capricious than ever. About the only people I can really think of that will affect is those that have recently moved here. The requirement on the references is they must know you for several years etc. If you've just relocated to NY, this will prevent you from applying right away.

But, they have to issue the permit now regardless of what the references say LOL. You can't just move the "good cause" standard to some one else.


So, the entire requirement for references becomes arbitrary. How can you require a reference if you are legally required to ignore what they say ?

 

[RBean]

Yes, as I said above, because of the stupidity of the NYC officials, who just can't turn loose of a little bit of their arbitrary authority, many lawyers will make lots of money. The tax payers in NYC who keep voting for these yokels will get to pay through the nose. The officials don't care. It's not their money.

 

[Enyce9]

I live in Westchester county and will be sending in an application to amend my existing permit from target to full carry on Monday. Let's see how long it takes....

 

[Enyce9]

I just called the Westchester licensing Division department and this is what they had to say: if you are calling regarding the supreme court decision. We are currently awaiting procedural instructions from our licensing officers and New York State Police. No further information is available"
what a load of crap.

Sending in an application to amend my permit from target to full carry on Monday morning. I'm sure I won't be the only one

 

[Egret-II]

Sending in an application to amend my permit from target to full carry on Monday morning. I'm sure I won't be the only one

I'll wait until they have "further information". I don't wanna submit my application and be quickly denied (on purpose) because they haven't gotten any word from the New York state police. I would also want to know if in the future New york state would recognize permits from other states since the proper cause bullshit is over.

 

[Modean]

I'll wait until they have "further information". I don't wanna submit my application and be quickly denied (on purpose) because they haven't gotten any word from the New York state police. I would also want to know if in the future New york state would recognize permits from other states since the proper cause bullshit is over.

I wouldn’t count on NY recognizing anything. They’re already hard at work trying to come up with laws to sidestep this decision.

 

[BuffNiag]

NY updated their website with some FAQs but it doesn’t look like they’re in any hurry to update the process.

Firearms

www.ny.gov

 

[Cooolone]

ARTICLE 265
Firearms and Other Dangerous Weapons
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE P
SECTION 265.00

Definitions
SECTION 265.01

Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree
SECTION 265.01-A

Criminal possession of a weapon on school grounds
SECTION 265.01-B

Criminal possession of a firearm
SECTION 265.01-C

Criminal possession of a rapid-fire modification device
SECTION 265.02

Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree
SECTION 265.03

Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree
SECTION 265.04

Criminal possession of a weapon in the first degree
SECTION 265.05

Unlawful possession of weapons by persons under sixteen
SECTION 265.06

Unlawful possession of a weapon upon school grounds
SECTION 265.07

Registration and serialization of firearms, rifles, shotguns, finished frames or receivers, and unfinished frames or receivers
SECTION 265.08

Criminal use of a firearm in the second degree
SECTION 265.09

Criminal use of a firearm in the first degree
SECTION 265.10

Manufacture, transport, disposition and defacement of weapons and dangerous instruments and appliances
SECTION 265.11

Criminal sale of a firearm in the third degree
SECTION 265.12

Criminal sale of a firearm in the second degree
SECTION 265.13

Criminal sale of a firearm in the first degree
SECTION 265.14

Criminal sale of a firearm with the aid of a minor
SECTION 265.15

Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement
SECTION 265.16

Criminal sale of a firearm to a minor
SECTION 265.17

Criminal purchase or disposal of a weapon
SECTION 265.19

Aggravated criminal possession of a weapon
SECTION 265.20

Exemptions
SECTION 265.25

Certain wounds to be reported
SECTION 265.26

Burn injury and wounds to be reported
SECTION 265.30

Certain convictions to be reported
SECTION 265.35

Prohibited use of weapons
SECTION 265.36

Unlawful possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device
SECTION 265.37

Unlawful possession of certain ammunition feeding devices
SECTION 265.38

Unlawful sale of a non-microstamping-enabled firearm
SECTION 265.40

Purchase of rifles and/or shotguns in contiguous states
SECTION 265.45

Failure to safely store rifles, shotguns, and firearms in the first degree
SECTION 265.50

Criminal manufacture, sale, or transport of an undetectable firearm, rifle or shotgun
SECTION 265.50*2

Failure to safely store rifles, shotguns, and firearms in the second degree
SECTION 265.55

Criminal possession of an undetectable firearm, rifle or shotgun
SECTION 265.60

Criminal sale of a ghost gun in the second degree
SECTION 265.61

Criminal sale of a ghost gun in the first degree
SECTION 265.63

Criminal sale of a frame or receiver in the second degree
SECTION 265.64

Criminal sale of a frame or receiver in the first degree
SECTION 265.65

Criminal purchase of a semiautomatic rifle
SECTION 265.66

Criminal sale of a semiautomatic rifle

Yeah well...

Fuck NY!


And for all that bullshit noise, Premise Permit, or Added Arbitrary Administrative be Restrictions!

Please point to the NY State Law that has this/these...

It's all fucking BULL, always has been. But the sheep fear to wolf!

Do what you want, I'm not advocating anything, but should you have an issue, there's not a fucking chance the State is going to let ANY challenge to their bullshit enter a courtroom!

It's game ON!
Folks...

And it's nice to see the other side scrambling and bubbling like fried bacon! LMAO!

I hope, sincerely hope, that when NY comes up with their tired bullshit about this or that many people per square whatever, that there's immediate challenge and continual effort to put it all to bed! Because it's fresh, keep it fresh, don't let them breathe! Or fuck em' where they breathe so they can't!

They've given it to everyone for so long, now it's their turn!

 

[ArmedCorgi]

NY updated their website with some FAQs but it doesn’t look like they’re in any hurry to update the process.

Firearms

www.ny.gov

There was this update...
"Governor Hochul’s Administration is working closely with the State legislature, county and local leaders, as well as legal experts, to ensure that the State enacts laws and create rules that conform with the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision while also ensuring that the ability to access or use firearms is restricted infringed and carefully regulated infringed."

 

[Grimscale]

So, is New York’s law overturned? Can I carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

• Nothing in the Supreme Court decision allows anyone to immediately legally carry a concealed firearm in New York State without obtaining the currently-required permits or licenses.
• This also means you cannot legally carry a concealed firearm outside of your home in New York State if you only have a license to possess a gun in your home.
• A firearm license is a State-regulated license, and nothing in the Bruen ruling suggests that the State does not have the authority to issue licenses or determine licensing requirements.
• In New York State, licenses are often issued by county licensing entities. It is possible that this process could change moving forward.
• Currently, an applicant must decide what type of license they would like to apply for.
• The most common types of firearm licenses are: (a) Carry concealed (b) Possess on Premises and (c) Possess/Carry During Employment. There is a possibility that these categories might change as a result of the Bruen ruling.
• At this time, the cost to obtain different licenses varies by county (or in some cases, city), as does the time it takes to obtain a license. At this time, the average processing time for license applications is six (6) months.

I don't recall reading any of this crap in the Law.
I don't remember there being different permits. Only one permit with "administrative restrictions", which have even LESS authority than they did before.
And the Bruen ruling absolutely told them that the State cannot make arbitrary rules.

I've been tolerant. But if they change the system and make it harder for me to defend myself, then I'm done with them.
And I am NOT paying any further "costs". It's no different than a poll tax. The S.C. Ruling effectively outlaws requiring payment to exercise a Right, unless they want to try treating ALL rights the same? (good luck with that).

 

[drowhawk]

All I have to say is we got screwed... The state is going to come down hard on us with the the sensitive place restrictions and much, much more. They should have left this one alone. Anyone who thinks this is a win for 2A hasn't lived in NY long enough.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Anyone who thinks this is a win for 2A hasn't lived in NY long enough.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a win has lived in NY too long.

 

[spat]

I don't recall reading any of this crap in the Law.
I don't remember there being different permits. Only one permit with "administrative restrictions", which have even LESS authority than they did before.
And the Bruen ruling absolutely told them that the State cannot make arbitrary rules.

I've been tolerant. But if they change the system and make it harder for me to defend myself, then I'm done with them.
And I am NOT paying any further "costs". It's no different than a poll tax. The S.C. Ruling effectively outlaws requiring payment to exercise a Right, unless they want to try treating ALL rights the same? (good luck with that).

There are several classes of permit.

Most of us have the one authorized under section 2 subsection F of NY PL400.

"(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or
place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof"

But there are several other classes of license defined in section 2.

A and B are the ridiculous "premise licenses" for instance.


" (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder; (b)
have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;
(c) have and carry concealed while so employed by a messenger employed
by a banking institution or express company; "

Article 400 | NYS Penal Law | Licensing Provisions Firearms

Any owner in possession of a firearm who suffers the loss or theft shall within twenty-four hours report the loss...

ypdcrime.com

 

[Enyce9]

I'll wait until they have "further information". I don't wanna submit my application and be quickly denied (on purpose) because they haven't gotten any word from the New York state police. I would also want to know if in the future New york state would recognize permits from other states since the proper cause bullshit is over.

I'm not waiting for anything... There is no further information to wait for. I think Westchester county residents have waited long enough

 

[Egret-II]

I'm not waiting for anything... There is no further information to wait for. I think Westchester county residents have waited long enough

What about if next week the supreme leader of New York kathy hochul decides that she will give full carry licences to all new Yorkers. But before you get one, you need 100 hours of training or some bullshit like that. They can deny your petition to remove the restriction because you don't have that requirement. I'll wait until the following week. And I'll go in person. I don't want any shenanigans.

 

[ManualF150]

What about if next week the supreme leader of New York kathy hochul decides that she will give full carry licences to all new Yorkers. But before you get one, you need 100 hours of training or some bullshit like that. They can deny your petition to remove the restriction because you don't have that requirement. I'll wait until the following week. And I'll go in person. I don't want any shenanigans.

That is what some of my Oneida friends are doing. They got restricted and are going to wait a couple days before approaching them.

Honestly, I think it's a good idea, because I'm sure they are still getting a zillion phone calls and people likely are storming into the office. Especially in Oneida, since Mr. Sullivan said so publicly.

Once someone gets back to me, I'll let you all know.

 

[Modean]

Anyone who thinks this isn't a win has lived in NY too long.

Both can be true.

 

[Enyce9]

What about if next week the supreme leader of New York kathy hochul decides that she will give full carry licences to all new Yorkers. But before you get one, you need 100 hours of training or some bullshit like that. They can deny your petition to remove the restriction because you don't have that requirement. I'll wait until the following week. And I'll go in person. I don't want any shenanigans.

Let them officially deny me then, in writing.. I've got absolutely nothing to lose.

 

[nortatoga]

All I have to say is we got screwed... The state is going to come down hard on us with the the sensitive place restrictions and much, much more. They should have left this one alone. Anyone who thinks this is a win for 2A hasn't lived in NY long enough.

“sensitive places” in this case, we do think respondents err in their attempt to characterize New York’s proper-cause requirement as a “sensitive-place” law. In their view, “sensitive places” where the government may lawfully disarm law-abiding citizens include all “places where people typically congregate and where law-enforcement and other public-safety professionals are presumptively available.” Brief for Respondents 34. It is true that people sometimes congregate in “sensitive places,” and it is likewise true that law enforcement professionals are usually presumptively available in those locations. But expanding the category of “sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the category of “sensitive places” far too broadly. Respondents’ argument would in effect exempt cities from the Second Amendment and would eviscerate the general right to publicly carry arms for self-defense that we discuss in detail below. See Part III–B, infra. Put simply, there is no historical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a “sensitive place” simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Police Department.

 

[ManualF150]

Let them officially deny me then, in writing.. I've got absolutely nothing to lose.

Exactly. They won't take your permit for asking. You aren't doing any harm in asking.

 

[BuffNiag]

 

[Darth]

No, it doesn't allow that.

We already had that right, this just clarifies it.

 

[Saltwater60]

Correct it goes back to the lower court for a decision.

 

[nortatoga]

Correct it goes back to the lower court for a decision.

And NYS will wait til they get the ruling from the lower court, like a lot here waited til the last moment to certify their pistol license.

 

[Acer-m14]

So, is New York’s law overturned? Can I carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

• Nothing in the Supreme Court decision allows anyone to immediately legally carry a concealed firearm in New York State without obtaining the currently-required permits or licenses.
• This also means you cannot legally carry a concealed firearm outside of your home in New York State if you only have a license to possess a gun in your home.
• A firearm license is a State-regulated license, and nothing in the Bruen ruling suggests that the State does not have the authority to issue licenses or determine licensing requirements.
• In New York State, licenses are often issued by county licensing entities. It is possible that this process could change moving forward.
• Currently, an applicant must decide what type of license they would like to apply for.
• The most common types of firearm licenses are: (a) Carry concealed (b) Possess on Premises and (c) Possess/Carry During Employment. There is a possibility that these categories might change as a result of the Bruen ruling.
• At this time, the cost to obtain different licenses varies by county (or in some cases, city), as does the time it takes to obtain a license. At this time, the average processing time for license applications is six (6) months.

what about open carry ?? i have the right correct ??

 

[Darth]

Correct it goes back to the lower court for a decision.

How is this a thing?

Chain of command who?

 

[livingston]

Guess which State ALREADY has a Gun Control workaround? Will they ever learn?...​

 

[spat]

“sensitive places” in this case, we do think respondents err in their attempt to characterize New York’s proper-cause requirement as a “sensitive-place” law. In their view, “sensitive places” where the government may lawfully disarm law-abiding citizens include all “places where people typically congregate and where law-enforcement and other public-safety professionals are presumptively available.” Brief for Respondents 34. It is true that people sometimes congregate in “sensitive places,” and it is likewise true that law enforcement professionals are usually presumptively available in those locations. But expanding the category of “sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the category of “sensitive places” far too broadly. Respondents’ argument would in effect exempt cities from the Second Amendment and would eviscerate the general right to publicly carry arms for self-defense that we discuss in detail below. See Part III–B, infra. Put simply, there is no historical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a “sensitive place” simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Police Department.

How about only places where the police have a particular duty to defend individuals ?

You can carry anywhere you can't sue the cops if they fail to defend you.

Seems like a reasonable compromise.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Monroe County District Attorney, Clerk weigh in on change to concealed carry law

13wham.com

"On Friday, Monroe County District Attorney Sandra Doorley and County Clerk Jamie Romeo addressed the high court's decision, saying New York is not an open carry state and that the ruling does not invalidate conceal carry permits in New York."

What? These people are allegedly professionals in their elected area?