Off-duty police officers banned from carrying firearms at New York State Fair

[Truebeliever]

I am picking up what you are trying to put down and I gotta say, does it really matter? I do not mean this in a negative manner.

100,00's of thousands of people are attacked daily in the US, too me, it does not matter why they are attacked. They are attacked by the vermin that lives among us. No one group of people is more important than the next.

In my current position, we are more than aware of higher level of attacks. We parked our vehicles far away form work, most of us ensure there are no markings on our vehicles that would identify what we do, we take precautions. We walk out at night with at least one person with us.

The world in which I work, I am surrounded by scum each and every minute of every shift. We are not special. Not at all.

It doesn’t matter to the right to carry. But for certain people not to recognize it or flat out deny it is just flat out wrong.

 

[GOPerfect]

It is not about denials, it is just that it does not matter. No profession is more important than another. No one group of people should be cast as better or more deserving than another.

I see things much different than others in the profession. I see what I do as a job; a paycheck with great benefits. Nothing more. This is far from who I am. To often, too many coppers believe they are special, better than others. I do not, never have and never will.

It doesn’t matter to the right to carry. But for certain people not to recognize it or flat out deny it is just flat out wrong.

 

[Truebeliever]

It is not about denials, it is just that it does not matter. No profession is more important than another. No one group of people should be cast as better or more deserving than another.

I see things much different than others in the profession. I see what I do as a job; a paycheck with great benefits. Nothing more. This is far from who I am. To often, too many coppers believe they are special, better than others. I do not, never have and never will.

It’s no different than being a marine . Most of them think they are special but not necessarily above civilians in their lives.
I don’t know where you have worked l, how many of your co-workers have died, being assaulted, maimed but to say the risk isn’t greater is like telling a combat vet they didn’t see anything that dangerous.
I know many LEO families who children have been attacked because their father is a cop. That rarely happens to Pizza delivery guys .

 

[spat]

Criminals avoid us like the plague? And they attack us too just because of what we do or did . That antidotal search was limited to attacks off duty at at the officer’s home. There are thousands more where it was just the officer’s car vandalized, property damaged etc. Why do I know this? I know hundreds of incidents. It’s that common.
If you want me to compare on duty attacks on police officers , there are over 60,000 in documented assaults on officers acting in their official capacity in just 2020. ( FBI stats)That doesn’t include attacks on off duty officers if they weren’t already taking some police action already . Yes, a lot are by criminals trying to get away, like this:
But attempted murder of a police officer is listed as an assault as well like this:

but a lot are unwarranted attacks.
Look at this one. The criminals seem really afraid-lol

A lot of ambush attacks

Suspect in custody after Rochester officer killed, partner shot in 'cowardly ambush': Officials

A police officer was shot and killed in the line of duty on Thursday night in Rochester, New York. A second officer was also shot but is expected to survive.

abcnews.go.com

Gunman who ambushed 3 Texas deputies, killing 1, remains on the run: Police

A Texas constable deputy was fatally shot and two other deputies were wounded in what police are calling an "ambush" early Saturday morning outside a Houston nightclub.

abcnews.go.com

Police discuss deadly violence after ambush leaves 3 officers dead

In a world where violence seems to never let up, one of the few tools we can use to try and cope are conversations.

www.wsaz.com

More officers are being killed by ambush than previous years, research shows

Last year, firearms-related fatalities claimed the lives of 62 officers nationwide — a 38% increase from the previous year, according to National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

www.newsnationnow.com

These are just ambushes where they shot or shot at the officers. It doesn’t include just being punched out of nowhere— quite common.

Yes, officers attacking criminals are going to get assaulted as the criminals defand themselves, but it's not retaliation when the guy you're trying to arrest fights back.

It's only retaliation if he comes looking for you.

If the retaliation you talk about was a thing, you guys would all be dead. The fact of the matter is that is a very very rare incident.

So, how many times has some guy just recognized you as a cop and just walked up to you in the street and punched you in the face ? Has it happened to anyone you know ? Some guy resisting arrest doesn't count, that's resisting not retaliation.

You post about 62 cops getting killed. 20,000 people were victims of homicide last year. 62 is a drop in the bucket.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that cops shouldn't carry guns, that's an insane suggestion.

My profession is about as low risk as you can possibly get for violence. I work from home and do not interact with the public, and I still carry a gun every where I go.

What I'm saying is that your notion of your job being especially dangerous is wrong.

 

[Truebeliever]

Who cares? You are arguing over and over ad nauseam like a man possessed responding to every single post as if we do not want off duty cops to carry. Not one person here doesn’t want off duty cops to carry.

WE WANT OFF DUTY COPS TO CARRY!

What we don’t want is the argument that because police jobs are quote unquote “Dangerous”, that they should be given an exemption while others shouldn’t.

It doesn’t matter who has a more dangerous job. Cop vs pizza delivery vs repo man, etc.

Irrelevant. Everyone has a god given and constitutional right to protect themselves and their family regardless of occupational threat level. A direct personal threat is no different than a non personal threat from a mass shooter or a robber. Both cop and non cop should be able to protect themselves and family from either threat.

Unless you arguing that we shouldn’t carry and only police should, I’m not sure why you are behaving like a mad man in this thread.

There are some here who have expressed otherwise.

 

[Truebeliever]

Yes, officers attacking criminals are going to get assaulted as the criminals defand themselves, but it's not retaliation when the guy you're trying to arrest fights back.

It's only retaliation if he comes looking for you.

If the retaliation you talk about was a thing, you guys would all be dead. The fact of the matter is that is a very very rare incident.

So, how many times has some guy just recognized you as a cop and just walked up to you in the street and punched you in the face ? Has it happened to anyone you know ? Some guy resisting arrest doesn't count, that's resisting not retaliation.

You post about 62 cops getting killed. 20,000 people were victims of homicide last year. 62 is a drop in the bucket.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that cops shouldn't carry guns, that's an insane suggestion.

My profession is about as low risk as you can possibly get for violence. I work from home and do not interact with the public, and I still carry a gun every where I go.

What I'm saying is that your notion of your job being especially dangerous is wrong.

Cops getting murdered outside their job don’t get added to the cop number. It goes into the main murder number only. the 63 number doesn’t include those who were shot and lived . Now compare that number per capita . Or just the straight numbers of the military killed in combat .
It’s a higher number than the members of the military killed in combat. Are those numbers an accurate reflection of the danger?
Like the jobs in the military, some jobs or work environments are more dangerous than others . Police accountants are counted in with the guy who takes doors for a living . Or sheriff Andy Taylor from Mayberry gets accounted in with Martin Riggs from Lethal weapon. Or compare the cop working the south side of Chicago to Beverly Hills.

 

[Nevar]

OK guys/Galls let us put this in real world prospective. If the queen bitch can on just a whim say off duty LECs can not carry . Think of what she can do next.
As of 9 1 22 your NY state Permit is worth shit off your property.

 

[spat]

Cops getting murdered outside their job don’t get added to the cop number. It goes into the main murder number only. the 63 number doesn’t include those who were shot and lived . Now compare that number per capita . Or just the straight numbers of the military killed in combat .
It’s a higher number than the members of the military killed in combat. Are those numbers an accurate reflection of the danger?
Like the jobs in the military, some jobs or work environments are more dangerous than others . Police accountants are counted in with the guy who takes doors for a living . Or sheriff Andy Taylor from Mayberry gets accounted in with Martin Riggs from Lethal weapon. Or compare the cop working the south side of Chicago to Beverly Hills.

Yep, just like the pizza delivery guy in the south side of Chicago gets counted in with the one in Mayberry too.

None of that makes any difference.

And you were talking about the off duty cops anyway, so if none of those 63 were killed off duty, why did you bring it up at all ?

 

[Truebeliever]

Are you saying that only cops should carry?

Not at all but some are saying to take the ability from off duty and retired cops because these politicians screwed them.

 

[Truebeliever]

I’m starting to believe that he thinks only cops should carry. I looked at his post history. He mentions NYPD often so that’s more likely where he’s from and if so, that explains his “Only cops should have guns” attitude.

Most NYPD are ant gun despite what some say since the vast majority of them are from Rockland, Westchester, Long Island, and the NYC where mostly the only people who had full carry were cops.

You are wrong. Many are pro-2A. Many cops who actually live in NYC are also pro-2A.

‘Shame on them for thinking that’: NYPD sergeants union head defends gun control retweet critics say is homophobic

It’s not the meme — it’s the message. The head of the NYPD’s Sergeants Benevolent Association is defending the reposting of an anti-gun control tweet some claim is homophobi…

www.nydailynews.com

Here is one of their union leaders retweeted a video described as “ The video mocks the candidate’s gun control outlook, claiming that criminals won’t follow the rules, no matter what is offered instead”

 

[Edwardteach72]

Cops are level headed and cool under pressure, unlike those stupid ass concealed carry CiVilIanS

 

[8w7]

You are wrong. Many are pro-2A. Many cops who actually live in NYC are also pro-2A.

‘Shame on them for thinking that’: NYPD sergeants union head defends gun control retweet critics say is homophobic

It’s not the meme — it’s the message. The head of the NYPD’s Sergeants Benevolent Association is defending the reposting of an anti-gun control tweet some claim is homophobi…

www.nydailynews.com

Here is one of their union leaders retweeted a video described as “ The video mocks the candidate’s gun control outlook, claiming that criminals won’t follow the rules, no matter what is offered instead”

That means absolutely nothing.

 

[8w7]

Not at all but some are saying to take the ability from off duty and retired cops because these politicians screwed them.

And saying “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” is cause to say that off duty cops need the exemption because of XYZ instead of saying that we all need the exemption?

 

[Acer-m14]

Cops are level headed and cool under pressure, unlike those stupid ass concealed carry CiVilIanS

i have seen that video before .. unreal ..

 

[99cummins]

So random quasi on topic....

Has anyone been to the Erie county fair yet? Do they have metal detectors?

Asking for a friend....

Went last night. Copper at the gate checking bags only. No metal detectors. Concealed is concealed.

 

[spat]

Not at all but some are saying to take the ability from off duty and retired cops because these politicians screwed them.

And here you are arguing that cops are special and deserve that "privilege" more than everyone else for a dozen different made up reasons.

If you'd said "I'm glad I can carry, there's no reason you shouldn't too". That would have been the end of the thread.

But no, you go on and on about how much more important that is for cops, even retired or off duty, than the rest of us peons.

 

[Acer-m14]

Went last night. Copper at the gate checking bags only. No metal detectors. Concealed is concealed.

checking bags for what ?

did he have a search warrant ?

 

[Truebeliever]

That means absolutely nothing.

Yep. Because the politicians don’t care what cops think about the subject. So this constant call by some posters for police to speak out doesn’t mean anything either. They pass these laws without asking what cops think . That’s how the SAFE act was passed. This new law too.

 

[Truebeliever]

checking bags for what ?

did he have a search warrant ?

They don’t need a warrant if it’s a checkpoint that gives you an option not to enter.

 

[Acer-m14]

i think they do .. if it was a non leo at the Fair gate doing the checking .. that's different ..

 

[Acer-m14]

hey let put Leo at all the grocery stores too to check us in with no warrant ..

 

[Truebeliever]

And here you are arguing that cops are special and deserve that "privilege" more than everyone else for a dozen different made up reasons.

If you'd said "I'm glad I can carry, there's no reason you shouldn't too". That would have been the end of the thread.

But no, you go on and on about how much more important that is for cops, even retired or off duty, than the rest of us peons.

No, it’s saying there is a greater danger for cops and retired cops than the general public. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have the right to carry. It’s the BS that some call to disarm off duty/retired cops because the idiots in Albany passed some stupid law saying that cops don’t have a greater danger is what I object to. Or think that because we did get an exemption because we explained that greater danger to the liberal mind set and it worked , that it diminishes their chance of getting them to allow general carry forward them. It doesn’t . They would just screw over all of us. Some on this forum have expressed that they would rather see that then the current system .

 

[Truebeliever]

i think they do .. if it was a non leo at the Fair gate doing the checking .. that's different ..

Nope. They can do it without a warrant . It’s been court tested. The NYPD started checking bags to get into the subways years ago. They also do it for New Years Eve at Times Square. It’s also done at courthouses, airports , etc.

 

[Acer-m14]

oh the stop n frisk from yrs ago ..

 

[8w7]

Yep. Because the politicians don’t care what cops think about the subject. So this constant call by some posters for police to speak out doesn’t mean anything either. They pass these laws without asking what cops think . That’s how the SAFE act was passed. This new law too.

Yep. Doesn’t mean anything as seen with the sheriff’s of almost every county here in NY saying that they oppose the safe act when it passed. Yet here we are.

But you cannot tell me with a straight face that the vast majority of cops in the NYPD are for the citizenry carrying. They are not. And they will without hesitation look for and arrest someone with a gun carrying in a so called sensitive place in NYC while upstate cops will look the other way and go about their business if they are someone that may be printing at the gas station.

 

[GOPerfect]

Cops are level headed and cool under pressure, unlike those stupid ass concealed carry CiVilIanS

Here is the entire video of the cop being a complete douce bag.

 

[spat]

Nope. They can do it without a warrant . It’s been court tested. The NYPD started checking bags to get into the subways years ago. They also do it for New Years Eve at Times Square. It’s also done at courthouses, airports , etc.

We live in NY (or used to). "Because the court said it's OK" does not make it so LOL.

How long did the NY courts say the "special cause" thing on permits was fine ?

Turns out it was *never* fine.

 

[GOPerfect]

Here is the entire video of the cop being a complete douce bag.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Here is the entire video of the cop being a complete douce bag.

And no I wasn't saying all cops are like this

 

[GOPerfect]

And no I wasn't saying all cops are like this

I never took it that way. Lots of scum though.