Operation - Repeal NY SAFE act

[GOPerfect]

"Gun violence" is the guise through which the 2A would be eliminated. I'd say they are very much related in the oppositions eyes.

But they are not. How many times do we hear Gun Owners say the line, "I support the Second Amendment, BUT....". Too many Americans see these as very different issues. We have Politicians say all the time that they support the 2A and then say they support a weapons ban? These are two totally different issues in many peoples eyes.



Side note, I wish discussions like these were in person. Sometimes difficult to get the full meaning out while typing. I think we are all in agreement on all of this, the full thought, idea and meanings are being lost through typing,

 

[GOPerfect]

The debate in this country is around 2A. No one to speak of is in favor of gun violence and school shootings. I don't anticipate any SCOTUS rulings on that.

See #61

 

[ArmedCorgi]

How many times do we hear Gun Owners say the line, "I support the Second Amendment, BUT....".

I haven't heard any gun owners say that. That is the line politicians who don't really support the amendment say to soften the blow of the anti-gun legislation they are about to put forth. The key word being "BUT" which takes a negative tone when used. For instance, "you are a good shot, BUT...." or "I support you, BUT...". You can't say you support something and in the same breath negate or demean it.

 

[Airborneguy]

The discussion and our debate here is focused on the 2nd amendment and how SCOTUS treats this issue. Stay on topic.

Haha so you start talking about how stupid we all are then demand your detractors leave you alone. You’re as bad as Steyr.

 

[Jmac00]

I predict a lot of posts from me reminding you people how SCOTUS is rigged and full of shit.

yep, be careful what you wish for. Kennedy RECOMMENDED Kavanaugh to Pres. Trump. Kavanaugh may be more middle of the road that we want.

 

[GOPerfect]

I haven't heard any gun owners say that. That is the line politicians who don't really support the amendment say to soften the blow of the anti-gun legislation they are about to put forth. The key word being "BUT" which takes a negative tone when used. For instance, "you are a good shot, BUT...." or "I support you, BUT...". You can't say you support something and in the same breath negate or demean it.

I consider the source, but gun owners all over the fruited planes support more gun control.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...owners-support-stricter-laws-even-nra-members


Do 97% of gun owners support universal background checks?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ers-gun-control-polls-second-amendment-2018-5


Gun Owners for Responsible Ownership

 

[Airborneguy]

SCOTUS hears about 80 cases per year and decide on a few dozen more without hearings. Gun cases are very, very far down the list of importance. Not going to change just because one Justice leaves and another comes aboard.

When the one justice who leaves is well known to have been the deciding vote on declining further gun cases, you bet your ass it makes a difference.

Have you seen any of Thomas’ recent dissents when turning down cases? That’s a rare thing: writing a dissent just because a case wasn’t taken up. Read them, they’re fascinating and offer insight into exactly why Kennedy’s absence is a huge deal for us.

 

[Jmac00]

I consider the source, but gun owners all over the fruited planes support more gun control.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...owners-support-stricter-laws-even-nra-members


Do 97% of gun owners support universal background checks?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ers-gun-control-polls-second-amendment-2018-5


Gun Owners for Responsible Ownership

all extremely liberal rags, just because they print bullshit, doesn't mean we have to believe it

 

[GOPerfect]

all extremely liberal rags, just because they print bullshit, doesn't mean we have to believe it

That was a quick set of links.... I was responding to a post in which it was stated he had never heard the old, "I support the 2A, but".

 

[GOPerfect]

When the one justice who leaves is well known to have been the deciding vote on declining further gun cases, you bet your ass it makes a difference.

Have you seen any of Thomas’ recent dissents when turning down cases? That’s a rare thing: writing a dissent just because a case wasn’t taken up. Read them, they’re fascinating and offer insight into exactly why Kennedy’s absence is a huge deal for us.

I really hope you are correct. My original post was about some here thinking that the SAFE Act would disappear nearly overnight because of a new Justice. I think, given some time, gun rights will begin to come back. I just think it will take more than a bit of time.

As for reading some of the dissents, not all, but I have read quite of few of them. And, you are correct.

 

[GOPerfect]

I really hope more 2A cases are chosen for the Court in the next couple of years, I am just not holding my breath. I guess only time will tell.

 

[Jmac00]

I really hope more 2A cases are chosen for the Court in the next couple of years, I am just not holding my breath. I guess only time will tell.

I think it will be in Trump's second term before the SCOTUS hears any 2A cases.

 

[masterswimmer]

I think it will be in Trump's second term before the SCOTUS hears any 2A cases.

Agreed about Trump's 2nd term...as long as RBG is replaced very soon. It seems to take a couple of years to go from filing to a SCOTUS decision to hear a case.

 

[meketrefe]

But they are not. How many times do we hear Gun Owners say the line, "I support the Second Amendment, BUT....". Too many Americans see these as very different issues. We have Politicians say all the time that they support the 2A and then say they support a weapons ban? These are two totally different issues in many peoples eyes.



Side note, I wish discussions like these were in person. Sometimes difficult to get the full meaning out while typing. I think we are all in agreement on all of this, the full thought, idea and meanings are being lost through typing,

People know everything about their rights yet little about their obligations.
People love rights as soon as they favor everything they agree on.

I support the first amendment but...

I support freedom of religion but....

I support due process but...

etc...

 

[Burzum]

I predict a lot of posts from me reminding you people how SCOTUS is rigged and full of shit.

I agree, furthermore Alito and Roberts are "Corporatist Conservatives," and "Social Conservatives," they have already proven to be NO friend to the 2Am by not supporting review of previous cases.

 

[Mosinitis]

Haha so you start talking about how stupid we all are then demand your detractors leave you alone. You’re as bad as Steyr.

Who are "we all"? There are posters here who tend to agree with me. Even GOPerfect doesn't predict any real changes.

 

[Mosinitis]

I haven't heard any gun owners say that. That is the line politicians who don't really support the amendment say to soften the blow of the anti-gun legislation they are about to put forth. The key word being "BUT" which takes a negative tone when used. For instance, "you are a good shot, BUT...." or "I support you, BUT...". You can't say you support something and in the same breath negate or demean it.

Well said.

 

[Airborneguy]

I agree, furthermore Alito and Roberts are "Corporatist Conservatives," and "Social Conservatives," they have already proven to be NO friend to the 2Am by not supporting review of previous cases.

4 justices have to vote to accept a case. We only get “rumors” of who voted to accept cases which end up declined. Roberts, Alito, and Thomas are solid yes votes to accept gun cases. Gorsuch is now and likely Kavanaugh. Kennedy was the hold up. I cannot recall any major cases brought to their attention since we’ve had Thomas, Alito, Roberts and Gorsuch together.

 

[Mosinitis]

Empty promises and excuses from a political party that needs butt-hurt supporters are not good enough for me. When they will actually deliver, only then they get credit.
We are not asking for anything radical. Only restoring the rights we already had. Hope is not a gun right.

 

[Mosinitis]

There were gun cases SCOTUS refused to hear with Gorsuch already seated on the court. Google it and you will find them. You are already proven wrong on you past euphoria over Gorsuch nomination.

 

[Airborneguy]

You’re confusing district court cases which were not yet appealed to the court. There is a process. The aggrieved party must appeal a case to Scotus for them to decide whether to accept it or not.

If you want to “prove me wrong”, do so. I’ve no need to google. Your cries of “everyone is stupid” have proven nothing. I’ve offered far more info regarding the court than you have.

Kennedy’s reluctance to accept gun cases has clouded every decision lately. It’s well known, but you can deny it all you want. That’s your right. The others were worried that his vote would be a negative, creating lasting precedent. We’ve shed that stumbling block now. There’s actually more risk in accepting the wrong case than in denying one.

 

[Mosinitis]

You’re confusing district court cases which were not yet appealed to the court. There is a process. The aggrieved party must appeal a case to Scotus for them to decide whether to accept it or not.

If you want to “prove me wrong”, do so. I’ve no need to google. Your cries of “everyone is stupid” have proven nothing. I’ve offered far more info regarding the court than you have.

I am talking about gun cases SCOTUS refused to hear with Gorsuch seated on the court. I don't need to prove you wrong, because you are denying easily verifiable facts. Not everyone is stupid, but in your case.... well.....

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I consider the source, but gun owners all over the fruited planes support more gun control.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...owners-support-stricter-laws-even-nra-members


Do 97% of gun owners support universal background checks?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ers-gun-control-polls-second-amendment-2018-5


Gun Owners for Responsible Ownership

Well, like you said, you considered the source. I can't speak to articles and polls put on by the media, main stream or not. I'm not refuting that there are self hating gun owners out there. All I can say is I've never heard first hand another gun owner say the whole "I support, BUT". I have on the other heard first hand, politicians and anti-gun people say that line.

 

[GOPerfect]

Well, like you said, you considered the source. I can't speak to articles and polls put on by the media, main stream or not. I'm not refuting that there are self hating gun owners out there. All I can say is I've never heard first hand another gun owner say the whole "I support, BUT". I have on the other heard first hand, politicians and anti-gun people say that line.

This was made for a reason. This is exactly what I am talking about....

 

[Robin]

" All I can say is I've never heard first hand another gun owner say the whole "I support, BUT"."
I have.
Robin

 

[GOPerfect]

" All I can say is I've never heard first hand another gun owner say the whole "I support, BUT"."
I have.
Robin

Many times over. I have seen it here; on this forum.

Ask gun owners of they believe and back Background checks.

Ask them if they think it is okay to withhold the Right to bear arms to convicted criminals.

Ask them if they think it is okay to withhold the Right to Bear Arms from a mentally challenged citizens.

There are many questions that can be asked to show how many are true 2A supporters.

BTW, I am 100% against background checks, I think that after a crim finishes his punishment, they should be able to own a firearm. And I do not believe that someone with mental issues should be excluded from bearing arms.

 

[Mosinitis]

I never heard a credible pro-gun person say: "I am for the NY SAFE act". This is what is being called for repeal through SCOTUS in this thread. We are not debating sale of machine guns to toddlers out of ice cream trucks. Limits can be debated, but it has nothing to do with restoring the rights we already had for decades if not generations. I don't buy the argument that republican politicians and judges can't do it because of the public pressure. I tend to believe they need to keep an angry politically active base from becoming complaisant.

 

[GOPerfect]

I never heard a credible pro-gun person say: "I am for the NY SAFE act". This is what is being called for repeal through SCOTUS in this thread. We are not debating sale of machine guns to toddlers out of ice cream trucks. Limits can be debated, but it has nothing to do with restoring the rights we already had for decades if not generations. I don't buy the argument that republican politicians and judges can't do it because of the public pressure. I tend to believe they need to keep an angry politically active base from becoming complaisant.

Then you have not been listening these past few years. When I was selling guns at Gander, I used to hear gun owners praising the passage of the SAFE Act. May not have been a shit load, but there are many people who are gun owners and believe in these "sensible" gun laws.

There are many gun owners who support all types of regulation and bans of "Assault Weapons". Just listen. You will hear them.

 

[Mosinitis]

Then you have not been listening these past few years. When I was selling guns at Gander, I used to hear gun owners praising the passage of the SAFE Act. May not have been a shit load, but there are many people who are gun owners and believe in these "sensible" gun laws.

There are many gun owners who support all types of regulation and bans of "Assault Weapons". Just listen. You will hear them.

I specifically mentioned "credible pro-gun" people. Gun owners includes people like Schumer and Feinstein. Owning a gun doesn't make one pro-gun.

 

[GOPerfect]

I specifically mentioned "credible pro-gun" people. Gun owners includes people like Schumer and Feinstein. Owning a gun doesn't make one pro-gun.

Many of these people say they are supporters. Like I said earlier, there are members here that claim to be proud gun, very much so. Some still agree to things like background checks, in your eyes, are they not pro 2A?