Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
Pearl Harbor Remembrance
- Thread starter Steal2B
- Start date
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
yep, not one mention on MSM about Pearl? not that I have seen yet? WTF? are our memories so short we can't stop for 5 minutes to remember all those still entombed in those ships, and all those that died on this day 
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
DeSantis Orders Flags at Half-Staff for Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day
Ahead of of Dec. 7, 2022, the 81th year since the 1941 Pearl Harbor attacks, Gov. Ron DeSantis ordered U.S. and Florida flags to fly at half-staff.
flvoicenews.com
FRANKIE
.308 Win
This proclamation is long overdue. I see the DeSantis Proclamation sign sealed and delivered on 7 December.
I see Brandon’s claim on 6 December, but no document.
I see Brandon’s claim on 6 December, but no document.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
RIP Houston Temples
www.nola.com
www.newsandsentinel.com
Our Views: Lessons of heroism from Pearl Harbor Day
When Franklin D. Roosevelt called for a declaration of war after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Hawaii, the president knew how to make a phrase that would stand
Pearl Harbor: Project Oklahoma offers closure to families
Americans were told this date would live in infamy. And for decades it also lived in the memories of those who heard President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s words after an attack in Hawaii launched the United States into World War II. Today, those memories are disappearing. Today they live on in...
www.newsandsentinel.com
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Nevar
.357 mag
Should have dropped the THIRD Bomb.
Yes there was one ready to go.
Even had liberal ass suckers back in the 40s.
Yes there was one ready to go.
Even had liberal ass suckers back in the 40s.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
I was not born until 1947, but I grew up hearing about Pearl Harbor and Hitler, from age 4 on..........all my friends dads were vets and we played war and army games with rubber knives, plastic guns........ and did pretend killing by wrestling..... on all the japs...Just like today? Right?
America is in a descending spiral into barbarism, and faggoted who do not know how to fight or kill, are everywhere, acting like catty women.
America is in a descending spiral into barbarism, and faggoted who do not know how to fight or kill, are everywhere, acting like catty women.
Great video. THG is awesome overall as a channel, I highly recommend it.
Maybe it's because I watched the clown car show last night that was the Republican Presidential Primary Debate and realized the era of the American Statesman was dead.
Or because my mind drifted to past episodes of Rush using the history of this day to opine gracefully as an example of American exceptionalism - something none of our leaders can do because they just don't believe it.
Or just because I view all of this against the backdrop of a very troubled country and doubt very much that the Greatest Generation fought so bravely for this particular future.
Whatever the reason, I find myself very somber today and wonder if that exceptionalism can ever be reclaimed? What will it take?
Or because my mind drifted to past episodes of Rush using the history of this day to opine gracefully as an example of American exceptionalism - something none of our leaders can do because they just don't believe it.
Or just because I view all of this against the backdrop of a very troubled country and doubt very much that the Greatest Generation fought so bravely for this particular future.
Whatever the reason, I find myself very somber today and wonder if that exceptionalism can ever be reclaimed? What will it take?
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
This should fit here.
These dames are good!!
These dames are good!!
What people don't comprehend is the atomic bombs might not have been the most devastating weapons of the war.
IMO the worst attacks were whole fire bombing cities. For example fire bombing Dresden and firebombing Tokyo.
99% of society in 2023 has no idea how savage and vicious full scale complete war can be.
Soviet entry into the war against Japan was the deciding factor for Japanese unconditional surrender. As relations between Russia and Western powers began to deteriorate after the end of war in Europe, Japan was holding out hoping to make a separate peace with Russia, but Stalin kept his word to FDR and Churchill per Yalta Conference agreements, 3 months (to the day) after the end of war in Europe, Soviet Union entered the war against Japan. Red Army conducted a massive invasion of Manchukuo defeating Japanese Kwantung Army in a matter of days. Without any forces outside Japanese mainland, Japanese supply lines were cut off.
Japan could not continue fighting the war and had to surrender.
View that fear of Soviets, rather than A-bomb, forced Japan's surrender gains traction
As the United States dropped its atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, 1.6 million Soviet troops launched a surprise attack on the Japanese...
www.dallasnews.com
The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan. Stalin Did.
Have 70 years of nuclear policy been based on a lie?
foreignpolicy.com
Soviet–Japanese War - Wikipedia
TL;DR I missed the part where Japan surrendered to a Soviet General aboard a Russian scow and later established airbases upon Japanese soil.Soviet entry into the war against Japan was the deciding factor for Japanese unconditional surrender. As relations between Russia and Western powers began to deteriorate after the end of war in Europe, Japan was holding out hoping to make a separate peace with Russia, but Stalin kept his word to FDR and Churchill per Yalta Conference agreements, 3 months (to the day) after the end of war in Europe, Soviet Union entered the war against Japan. Red Army conducted a massive invasion of Manchukuo defeating Japanese Kwantung Army in a matter of days. Without any forces outside Japanese mainland, Japanese supply lines were cut off.
Japan could not continue fighting the war and had to surrender.
View that fear of Soviets, rather than A-bomb, forced Japan's surrender gains traction
As the United States dropped its atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, 1.6 million Soviet troops launched a surprise attack on the Japanese...www.dallasnews.com
The Bomb Didn’t Beat Japan. Stalin Did.
Have 70 years of nuclear policy been based on a lie?
Soviet–Japanese War - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
A contributing factor, yes; the deciding factor, no.
It's not like the Japs all cowered in their boots at the declaration of war by Soviets on Aug 8 anymore than they did the bombing of Hiroshima on Aug 9. Hell, the Soviets denounced the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact 4 months earlier, that should have been the writing on the wall. And the Japs were hardly in consensus over surrendering as evidenced by the events leading up to the Kyūjō incident. Had they not surrendered officially when they did (just hours after the incident) Hirohito may have been killed or overthrown as Emperor in another coup attempt. There was enough ambiguity within the Potsdam Declaration that he may yet have a place in Japanese leadership post war; which was smart, who wants to surrender knowing yours will be the first head to roll? That was likely the deciding factor.
Had Stalin not been fooled into the Neutrality Pact in the first place the war may have come to a close sooner than it did since Manchukuo and all that Japan depended upon for its resources would have been under threat of invasion by the Soviets.
Since you like wiki quotes:
Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin was initially unaware of Adolf Hitler's briefing to his generals that an attack on the Soviet Union by the European Axis Powers would let Japan overtly challenge the United States. That briefing was based on the belief that if such an attack occurred, the Soviet Union would be too preoccupied with fighting Nazi Germany. That would make Japan feel less threatened by any possible Soviet invasion of Manchukuo and allow Japan to have enough provisions and capabilities to start a war against the United States. The pact would allow both Japan and the Soviet Union to avoid fighting on multiple fronts.
But then again maybe they knew they weren't up to the task since they barely made it out by the luck of weather and Hitler's own stupidity - Russia's 2 greatest WWII weapons.
Dang Russkis always trying to take credit.
I noticed that as well as did my coworkers. Needless to say, we were pissed about that. I watched a video (from PBS) last night where they sent in a ROV to examine the inside of what's left of the Arizona. It's from 2016 but it's a good video to watch if you have about an hour.yep, not one mention on MSM about Pearl? not that I have seen yet? WTF? are our memories so short we can't stop for 5 minutes to remember all those still entombed in those ships, and all those that died on this day
The instrument of surrender signed by Japanese delegation aboard USS Missouri named Soviet Union as one of the allied powers Japan was surrendering to. Soviet representatives were present at the signing ceremony aboard Missouri.
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Sure, they were signatories just as China, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, France, the Netherlands and New Zealand were aboard a sovereign US vessel - sovereign U.S. Territory. Never heard any of them try to take undue credit, the way the Johnny-come-lately Russians do.
Spin it any way you want, no other country did more to defeat Japan than the US did. That is a fact.
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Nope, only 4 countries were named in the surrender document; US, Britain, USSR and China.
Stalin went to great length to fulfill his promise made to FDR and Churchill.
The West had to do nothing and failed to fulfill its promise made to Gorbachev not to expend NATO.
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Good propaganda should not be so easy to refute comrade.
Japanese Instrument of Surrender - Wikipedia
- Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz for the United States (9:12 a.m.)[2][6]
- General Hsu Yung-chang for China (9:13 a.m.)[2][7]
- Admiral Sir Bruce Fraser for the United Kingdom (9:14 a.m.)[2][8]
- Lieutenant General Kuzma Derevyanko for the Soviet Union (9:16 a.m.)[2][9][note 2]
- General Sir Thomas Blamey for Australia (9:17 a.m.)[2][10]
- Colonel Lawrence Moore Cosgrave for Canada (9:18 a.m.)[2][11]
- Général de Corps d'Armée Philippe Leclerc de Hauteclocque for France (9:20 a.m.)[2][12]
- Lieutenant Admiral Conrad Helfrich for the Netherlands (9:21 a.m.)[2][13]
- Air Vice-Marshal Leonard M. Isitt for New Zealand (9:22 a.m.)[2][14]
Nice try, but no cigar.
Only four countries were named in the surrender document as Allied Powers Japan was surrendering to. This is the direct quote of the first two paragraphs:
"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under the Japanese control wherever situated."
en.m.wikisource.org
Only four countries were named in the surrender document as Allied Powers Japan was surrendering to. This is the direct quote of the first two paragraphs:
"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under the Japanese control wherever situated."
Japanese Instrument of Surrender - Wikisource, the free online library
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Nyet. My statement was that the Soviets were signatories just as the others countries which you denied the other countries. I have proved you wrong and now you're just trying to weasel-word your way out.Nice try, but no cigar.
Only four countries were named in the surrender document as Allied Powers Japan was surrendering to. This is the direct quote of first two paragraphs:
"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under the Japanese control wherever situated."
Japanese Instrument of Surrender - Wikisource, the free online library
What you have pasted highlights the 3 countries that drafted the Potsdam Declaration, which outlined the terms for surrender and also started the legal process for reparations. The "hereafter referred to" part is boilerplate language acknowledging the principal Allied members (the Big Four) but it is not all inclusive.
hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
Scroll further down your own source and you will see all the signatories I already listed, (that had also declared war on Japan - so why wouldn't they have been signers?)
Just because an agreement is drafted by certain parties does not mean that others cannot sign onto it that did not draft it (like the Soviets, the omission of which was to lull the Japs into a false sense of security and the standing pact). Plainly, part of the intent of that paragraph was to note the addition of the Soviets, as well they should.
Much the same way countries can sign onto the NATO charter without having been founding members.
Or conversely, countries can remove themselves from a charter, like say the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
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You are trying to spin what is probably the second most important document of WWII.
The document itself contradicts your spin. We can do this all day long, I got your spinning ass in a vise. Here it is again from the National Archives website:
www.archives.gov
Direct quote from the document:
"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government, and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under Japanese control wherever situated."
Four Allied Powers Japan was surrendering to are clearly named. United States, China, Great Britain and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Japan occupied a lot of territory and obviously its surrender effected a number of countries and European colonies. Some of them fought against Japan, some didn't. Some weren't even there to sign this document. You are using a factoid to deny a fact.
The document itself contradicts your spin. We can do this all day long, I got your spinning ass in a vise. Here it is again from the National Archives website:
Surrender of Japan (1945)
EnlargeDownload Link Citation: Instrument of Surrender; September 2, 1945; Records of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff; Record Group 218; National Archives. View All Pages in the National Archives Catalog View Transcript Aboard the USS Missouri, this instrument of surrender was signed on September...
www.archives.gov
Direct quote from the document:
"We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government, and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.
We hereby proclaim the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers of the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters and of all Japanese armed forces and all armed forces under Japanese control wherever situated."
Four Allied Powers Japan was surrendering to are clearly named. United States, China, Great Britain and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Japan occupied a lot of territory and obviously its surrender effected a number of countries and European colonies. Some of them fought against Japan, some didn't. Some weren't even there to sign this document. You are using a factoid to deny a fact.
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Again, scroll down your source.
What "fact" did I deny? I only denied your BS spin that the Soviets were the "deciding factor" in ending the war with Japan and pointed out through hyperbole to put this in context that if there was a singular Military Officer surrendered to, it was MacArthur as Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers aboard a US vessel and NOT to a Soviet aboard any Soviet vessel. And it was MacArthur that presided over the surrender ceremony as well as the post-war occupation. Yeah, the Soviet role was so significant they sent Kuzma Derevyanko, A UKRAINIAN LIEUTENANT-GENERAL as their representative who is barely a historical footnote.
Obviously the surrender was to the Allies et al. And of course the Soviets were principal members (as I have stated), but only once the Nazis betrayed them after their joint invasion of Poland and the Soviet invasions of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and installation of puppet governments. Communist treachery only failed to Nazi treachery. Stalin playing both sides throughout the war was obvious. So treacherous that he even knew about the atom bomb through his spies long before Truman told him. Espionage, treachery, subjugation and thievery are the only characteristics that ever gave Soviets prominence in the world. Yeah, Soviets were so great those Baltic countries all got as far away as they could by joining NATO.
And the only reason for my reply in the first place was because I view that Russian propaganda line as disrespectful in this thread.
IMO you've bought into Russian hero worship to diminish the fact that the Soviet Union allied with the Nazis to begin the war and maintained neutrality with the Japs through most of it. Ironically, it was Nazi treachery that saved the Soviets. Well, that and the US entering the war. The Soviet role with Japan expedited their inevitable defeat, nothing more, nothing less.
The Soviets and Mother Russia do not deserve the accolades they seek.
What "fact" did I deny? I only denied your BS spin that the Soviets were the "deciding factor" in ending the war with Japan and pointed out through hyperbole to put this in context that if there was a singular Military Officer surrendered to, it was MacArthur as Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers aboard a US vessel and NOT to a Soviet aboard any Soviet vessel. And it was MacArthur that presided over the surrender ceremony as well as the post-war occupation. Yeah, the Soviet role was so significant they sent Kuzma Derevyanko, A UKRAINIAN LIEUTENANT-GENERAL as their representative who is barely a historical footnote.
Obviously the surrender was to the Allies et al. And of course the Soviets were principal members (as I have stated), but only once the Nazis betrayed them after their joint invasion of Poland and the Soviet invasions of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and installation of puppet governments. Communist treachery only failed to Nazi treachery. Stalin playing both sides throughout the war was obvious. So treacherous that he even knew about the atom bomb through his spies long before Truman told him. Espionage, treachery, subjugation and thievery are the only characteristics that ever gave Soviets prominence in the world. Yeah, Soviets were so great those Baltic countries all got as far away as they could by joining NATO.
And the only reason for my reply in the first place was because I view that Russian propaganda line as disrespectful in this thread.
IMO you've bought into Russian hero worship to diminish the fact that the Soviet Union allied with the Nazis to begin the war and maintained neutrality with the Japs through most of it. Ironically, it was Nazi treachery that saved the Soviets. Well, that and the US entering the war. The Soviet role with Japan expedited their inevitable defeat, nothing more, nothing less.
The Soviets and Mother Russia do not deserve the accolades they seek.
The Soviet Role in World War II: Realities and Myths
As the world marks the 75th anniversary of the end of World War II, it would be much better not only for the history of Russia but also for the country’s future if Russian leaders were willing to permit—and even encourage—a more even-handed discussion of the Soviet Union’s role in the war.
daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu
Again, scroll down your source.
What "fact" did I deny? I only denied your BS spin that the Soviets were the "deciding factor" in ending the war with Japan and pointed out through hyperbole to put this in context that if there was a singular Military Officer surrendered to, it was MacArthur as Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers aboard a US vessel and NOT to a Soviet aboard any Soviet vessel. And it was MacArthur that presided over the surrender ceremony as well as the post-war occupation. Yeah, the Soviet role was so significant they sent Kuzma Derevyanko, A UKRAINIAN LIEUTENANT-GENERAL as their representative who is barely a historical footnote.
Obviously the surrender was to the Allies et al. And of course the Soviets were principal members (as I have stated), but only once the Nazis betrayed them after their joint invasion of Poland and the Soviet invasions of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and installation of puppet governments. Communist treachery only failed to Nazi treachery. Stalin playing both sides throughout the war was obvious. So treacherous that he even knew about the atom bomb through his spies long before Truman told him. Espionage, treachery, subjugation and thievery are the only characteristics that ever gave Soviets prominence in the world. Yeah, Soviets were so great those Baltic countries all got as far away as they could by joining NATO.
And the only reason for my reply in the first place was because I view that Russian propaganda line as disrespectful in this thread.
IMO you've bought into Russian hero worship to diminish the fact that the Soviet Union allied with the Nazis to begin the war and maintained neutrality with the Japs through most of it. Ironically, it was Nazi treachery that saved the Soviets. Well, that and the US entering the war. The Soviet role with Japan expedited their inevitable defeat, nothing more, nothing less.
The Soviets and Mother Russia do not deserve the accolades they seek.
The Soviet Role in World War II: Realities and Myths
As the world marks the 75th anniversary of the end of World War II, it would be much better not only for the history of Russia but also for the country’s future if Russian leaders were willing to permit—and even encourage—a more even-handed discussion of the Soviet Union’s role in the war.daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu
It's impossible to have a rational debate with intellectual conmen. You cherry picked one event misstated it and narrate it as if it occurred in a vacuum. History doesn't begin with Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Every major European power signed non-aggression pact with Germany, Soviet Union was the last country to do so and only after Stalin's attempt to form anti-Hitler collation was rejected. There was no joined invasion of Poland. Russian forces took over Western Ukraine and Western Belarus two weeks later and only after Polish government fled Warsaw. Nazis were ideological enemies of the Soviets. They were friends of Western industrialists and bankers, who helped Hitler's rise to power. British Royal family and many members of American high society were personal friends of Adolf Hitler. There were Nazi rallies all over U.S., Nazi summer camps for the youths. Nazi convention packed the Madison Square Garden in the middle of NYC. Give me a break.