Pistol Permit (4) References?

Russ Woody · Oct 9, 2022

Cortland County has always had the 4 references as far as I can recall. One of my wifes was from Broome County and nobody seemed to notice or care FWIW.

Bob · Oct 9, 2022

The State form requires four references. It is (and has been) a NYS requirement. The individual counties take some latitude when it comes to where the reside.

DirtyDeeds said:
Is anyone challenging (post Bruen) New York's clearly subjective test - where we need to have (4) references that reside within our county - to vouch for us before the State will allow us to exercise our Constitutional Right?

It's part of the Antonyuk challenge. This was one of the provisions that was allowed to stand when the TRO was issued last week.

livingston · Oct 9, 2022

Livingston county has four . Three that lived in the county. I used a husband and wife as two .. Some counties seem to discourage this .Some of my references were never contacted. I did have a sheriff interview me ... I had a minor hick up in my past. ... Nothing serious. .. Still I was asked about it. . It seemed it was the main reason for the interview. ... It was done in my driveway .. Less than 5 minutes. .... "Tell me in your words what happened " kind of thing...

PutnamCharlie · Oct 9, 2022

I believe Putnam is the same but they told me if you have two within the county it was fine. The other two can be outside the county. Give them a call.

Saltwater60 · Oct 9, 2022

I don’t know of a lawsuit that is challenging this directly but there are so many going on right now who the hell knows.
What matters is if there is a historical president set up for requiring references. By that it means was it on the book before the 14th amendment was ratified into the constitution.

spat · Oct 9, 2022

DirtyDeeds said:
Hi Folks,

RE: Possess/Carry Pistol

Information Guide: Pistol Permits | Sullivan County NY

sullivanny.us

Is anyone challenging (post Bruen) New York's clearly subjective test - where we need to have (4) references that reside within our county - to vouch for us before the State will allow us to exercise our Constitutional Right?

Is the fact that references need to "reside within the County" - a state requirement or a county requirement? I'm in Sullivan Co and it is clearly stated on the website - I've looked at other counties and I didn't see that requirement.

I live in Sullivan but I've worked for the last 30 years in Manhattan - so most people I would feel comfortable enough to "impose" on - would be in the NYC area.

Thanks.

Regards,
Scott

Or go the other route. Since they cannot subjectively evaluate the references just get 4 guys in each county to be the universal references.

4 guys who will provide a reference for anyone who can pass a NICS check.

They can no longer say "your references aren't good enough" so they just need to be able to fog a mirror right now.

A rubber stamp is good enough.

Budonahog · Oct 9, 2022

Ulster county doesn't care where your references comes from and they can be related as well.

Acer-m14 · Oct 10, 2022

did they define who and what the references can and cannot be ??

i use 3 ferrets and a bulldog .. not my fault the State can't speak there language ..

Acer-m14 · Oct 10, 2022

just for shits n giggles .. what would happen if you put for your references the sheriff and 3 deputies who have no clue who you are

:ROFL:

Cavalry · Oct 10, 2022

Fulton county requires 4 references that be in county residents. Back in the day that I got my permit it was all the rage to get references that were upstanding public figures and/or were permit holders. It was not really a thing but for some reason people thought it was. People would search out their religious leader, mayor, prominent attorney, etc, etc. I used my girlfriend her parents and a buddy who was doing 3 months in County Jail for driving without a license.

Grimscale · Oct 10, 2022

Orleans required 4 references, but since I'd only just moved here they compromised and asked for 2 from Orleans and 3 from Monroe, where I work.

None were called.

TEOTWAWKI inc. · Oct 10, 2022

I'm in Sullivan Colony as well, and just from your join date (yesterday - 10/9/2022), and a single post, I can vouch for your exceptional moral character.

I charge a base rate of $250 for "Yeah, he is a good guy, and we go way back", and $50 for each "gives back to the community" type embellishment. $25 will get you a notable memory from high school. For an additional $100 I will tell them all about your personal sacrifice by participating in the Covid "vaccine" trials. Go with the whole package, and I'll even throw in the use your favorite pronouns.

Send me a PM with a draft of the script so I can provide an accurate quote. Are you MAGA or Build Back Better? It will effect the price a bit because I need to get into character.

PayPal no longer accepted.

ETA: Any interest in a really clean social media account? That is T+M.

VietnamEraVet · Oct 10, 2022

Back when I got mine, you needed 4 in Erie County, and certain towns demanded that they be from the same town you lived in. I don’t remember which ones those were anymore, but I could probably look it up in my file if I wanted to.

I do remember though that they insisted that none could be Erie County Sheriffs or family members. And my local PD did write to all of mine; called them to verify that they actually meant what they wrote (and that they did not fill out the cop's questionnaire in my presence); and actually ran background checks on my references. They also objected to one of them. Two already had their CCW's for decades, and two did not. They also contacted my ex-wife and other family members. I don't remember for certain if they contacted any neighbors, but IIRC, they did. And they even investigated my businesses.

It was a PITA. And they took their sweet ass time too.

2WheelGnnr · Oct 10, 2022

Livingston has Four. I thought when I did Ontario county it was 3....but maybe 4....hell...lets make it 100 !!!!!

ya know.....to make sure of good moral character........

Jsmegs77 · Oct 10, 2022

It’s another mechanism to ensure that a right is delayed or denied based upon completely arbitrary and capricious criteria, and as such needs to die.

Russ Woody · Oct 10, 2022

As an aside from my post above, none of my references were called or got a letter.

Phazer · Oct 10, 2022

The reference requirement is unconstitutional.

All the permitting office can do with references is use them to make a subjective determination. That subjectivity is unconstitutional.

Steal2B · Oct 10, 2022

I know of workplaces that held lunch hour or after work signing parties where workers from various counties would fill out each other's references and workers who were public notaries signed them on the spot.

Saltwater60 · Oct 10, 2022

VietnamEraVet said:
Back when I got mine, you needed 4 in Erie County, and certain towns demanded that they be from the same town you lived in. I don’t remember which ones those were anymore, but I could probably look it up in my file if I wanted to.

I do remember though that they insisted that none could be Erie County Sheriffs or family members. And my local PD did write to all of mine; called them; and actually ran background checks on them. They also objected to one of them. They also contacted my ex-wife and other family members.

It was a PITA. And they took their sweet ass time too.

Mine was the town I lived in and my town was 4 square miles. I’ve lived here my entire life, same town and I had trouble thinking of who to ask. Thankfully the cop down the road said just use me and that made my fourth.

Celt · Oct 10, 2022

DirtyDeeds said:
Hi Folks,

RE: Possess/Carry Pistol

Information Guide: Pistol Permits | Sullivan County NY

sullivanny.us

Is anyone challenging (post Bruen) New York's clearly subjective test - where we need to have (4) references that reside within our county - to vouch for us before the State will allow us to exercise our Constitutional Right?

Is the fact that references need to "reside within the County" - a state requirement or a county requirement? I'm in Sullivan Co and it is clearly stated on the website - I've looked at other counties and I didn't see that requirement.

I live in Sullivan but I've worked for the last 30 years in Manhattan - so most people I would feel comfortable enough to "impose" on - would be in the NYC area.

Thanks.

Regards,
Scott

That same stipulation is what took me 7 years to get my permit in Westchester county. I'm an Upstate native, a Westchester transplant, and I primarily work in New York City. It took me 6 years to find County residents that I trusted enough to have them be character references. And by the time I went to turn in my paperwork they told me it was expired and I had to start over again . Then it took them another year until I finally had a permit in my hand . That requirement is also unconstitutional in my opinion.

Truebeliever · Oct 10, 2022

spat said:
Or go the other route. Since they cannot subjectively evaluate the references just get 4 guys in each county to be the universal references.

4 guys who will provide a reference for anyone who can pass a NICS check.

They can no longer say "your references aren't good enough" so they just need to be able to fog a mirror right now.

A rubber stamp is good enough.

Yep, that’s the way to go.

Far king · Oct 10, 2022

Saltwater60 said:
Mine was the town I lived in and my town was 4 square miles. I’ve lived here my entire life, same town and I had trouble thinking of who to ask. Thankfully the cop down the road said just use me and that made my fourth.

Celt said:
That same stipulation is what took me 7 years to get my permit in Westchester county. I'm an Upstate native, a Westchester transplant, and I primarily work in New York City. It took me 6 years to find County residents that I trusted enough to have them be character references. And by the time I went to turn in my paperwork they told me it was expired and I had to start over again . Then it took them another year until I finally had a permit in my hand . That requirement is also unconstitutional in my opinion.

We live in a slave state. That’s all there is to it.

Cooolone · Oct 10, 2022

Just apply and when denied because the lack of Good Character references then challenge it!

That is all...

Have a great day!

camper4lyfe · Oct 11, 2022

2WheelGnnr said:
Livingston has Four. I thought when I did Ontario county it was 3....but maybe 4....hell...lets make it 100 !!!!!

ya know.....to make sure of good moral character........

Livingston actually requires 7: 4 on the application, and 3 more after the fact that aren't mentioned anywhere in the application instructions.

camper4lyfe · Oct 11, 2022

Cooolone said:
Just apply and when denied because the lack of Good Character references then challenge it!

That is all...

Have a great day!

You buying?

pshift · Oct 11, 2022

The Hudson Valley elite require 4 references.

Bob · Oct 12, 2022

camper4lyfe said:
Livingston actually requires 7: 4 on the application, and 3 more after the fact that aren't mentioned anywhere in the application instructions.

Livingston is also much more efficient. From the beginning of the process, they said "We only issue concealed carry" and actually had that box pre-filled on the application. And from the day my other half dropped off her application to the day her permit arrived in the mail, it was exactly 49 days.

camper4lyfe · Oct 12, 2022

Bob said:
Livingston is also much more efficient. From the beginning of the process, they said "We only issue concealed carry" and actually had that box pre-filled on the application. And from the day my other half dropped off her application to the day her permit arrived in the mail, it was exactly 49 days.

Most definitely. And the county clerk is FAST answering emails. The last couple times I had a question, she’d answered me back within 15 minutes.

Pistol Permit (4) References?

.177 BB

.357 mag

6.5 Creedmoor

20×102mm Vulcan

6.5 Creedmoor

20×102mm Vulcan

.950 JDJ

.40 S&W

20×102mm Vulcan

20×102mm Vulcan

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.338 Win Mag

.308 Win

6.5 Creedmoor

.308 Win

.357 mag

.450/400 Nitro Ex

.700 Nitro Express

20×102mm Vulcan

.450/400 Nitro Ex

6.5 Creedmoor

.357 mag

.338 Win Mag

.177 BB

.308 Win

.308 Win

.338 Win Mag

6.5 Creedmoor

.308 Win