Rand Paul introduces Justice for Breonna Taylor Act to ban "no-knock" warrants

[spat]

You are not thinking like a criminal. They know its the cops. They are thinking about it daily perhaps by the minute. Then when "police" and "search warrant" is shouted many times by many people there is no doubt. Usually the people comply and there is nobody hurt. Sometimes they shoot and their girlfriend standing beside them gets shot. So be it.

If the criminals were really preparing to repel cops you would have a ton of dead swat teams.

All the high speed tactical gear in the world won't do shit if someone builds an IED under the porch your standing on when you kick that door in.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'm not very familiar with the case but this happens often, and when it happens to white people there are not riots.

At the end of the day the target of the warrant shot at police. So he deserves the bulk of the blame.

He shot at the police who broke down their door. I would too as would many here when they get woken up by a kicked in door. You cannot see a scenario where for whatever reason, wrong house, mistaken identity, cousin from Vermont staying over, ect, and at midnight your door gets kicked in as you walk down the steps with your gun to engage intruders?

 

[Chevusa]

If the criminals were really preparing to repel cops you would have a ton of dead swat teams.

All the high speed tactical gear in the world won't do shit if someone builds an IED under the porch your standing on when you kick that door in.

I bet it’s happened. Doesn’t mean everyone is preparing for it, building it, rigging it. There a lot to that. Easy to talk about it online. Harder to apply in real life. If you don’t think criminals are paranoid all day looking over your shoulder then idk what to tell ya. Ever drive home after a few soda pops? You get pretty nervous about that cop don’t you? The lady coming home from the grocery store however has no care in the world about him. Same thing just on a much larger scale.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If the criminals were really preparing to repel cops you would have a ton of dead swat teams.

All the high speed tactical gear in the world won't do shit if someone builds an IED under the porch your standing on when you kick that door in.

This! If I was a criminal and knew that the cops were coming for me, they would have to get by sand bagged barricades with accurate rifle rifle.

Hell, just couches, chairs, and refrigerators will do the job.

 

[Jchrisls]

This scenario ( no knock warrants) and thier use opens up a whole host of scenarios, none of them good for most parties involved, on both sides of the argument. The entire thread could be filled with " Ya buts" and caveats for one side or the other. To me, the most dangerous one has been well stated by marine corporal and holdover, that in which the door of an armed innocent is being broken down and a confrontation ensues. Noone wins here. Police will respond accordingly to thier training, and the innocent will respond to the scenario they have ( and I believe MOST of us, if not all here) have played out in thier heads thousands of times, a home invasion. Both sides lose no matter the outcome. Completely avoidable. Warrants serve a purpose necessary in society, but the utmost scrutiny must be used accordingly regarding no knocks.

 

[Chevusa]

This scenario ( no knock warrants) and thier use opens up a whole host of scenarios, none of them good for most parties involved, on both sides of the argument. The entire thread could be filled with " Ya buts" and caveats for one side or the other. To me, the most dangerous one has been well stated by marine corporal and holdover, that in which the door of an armed innocent is being broken down and a confrontation ensues. Noone wins here. Police will respond accordingly to thier training, and the innocent will respond to the scenario they have ( and I believe MOST of us, if not all here) have played out in thier heads thousands of times, a home invasion. Both sides lose no matter the outcome. Completely avoidable. Warrants serve a purpose necessary in society, but the utmost scrutiny must be used accordingly regarding no knocks.

The warrant must specify the exact address. Could they accidentally get the wrong door? Maybe. That’s akin to not flying on a plane because both engines could fail over the ocean. We won’t cancel millions and millions of flights because there was an accident once. The world keeps turning.

 

[Jchrisls]

The warrant must specify the exact address. Could they accidentally get the wrong door? Maybe. That’s akin to not flying on a plane because both engines could fail over the ocean. We won’t cancel millions and millions of flights because there was an accident once. The world keeps turning.

Although honestly lacking research ( to this I will admit) I would find it highly unlikely this has only occurred once. Actually, I would find it extremely more likely ( due to the nature of human involvement, humans being inherently flawed) that this happens much more frequently than "this one time ". For that reason, along with the flawed nature of human beings, would be enough to take any action like this with extreme caution. As in both scenarios ( both yours and mine) it is explicitly a choice, and with the latter, due caution is paramount.

 

[Chevusa]

Although honestly lacking research ( to this I will admit) I would find it highly unlikely this has only occurred once. Actually, I would find it extremely more likely ( due to the nature of human involvement, humans being inherently flawed) that this happens much more frequently than "this one time ". For that reason, along with the flawed nature of human beings, would be enough to take any action like this with extreme caution. As in both scenarios ( both yours and mine) it is explicitly a choice, and with the latter, due caution is paramount.

There was a thread on this some time ago. I cited the real data. When expressed as a percentage, the number was a fraction of a percent. Not nearly enough to outweigh getting the worse of the worse off of the streets and out of the communities for a long long time. These warrants aren’t served because you didn’t pay a parking ticket.

 

[spat]

The warrant must specify the exact address. Could they accidentally get the wrong door? Maybe. That’s akin to not flying on a plane because both engines could fail over the ocean. We won’t cancel millions and millions of flights because there was an accident once. The world keeps turning.

If you get the wrong address and it gets people killed you should go to prison for criminally negligent homicide. Everyone that made the mistake, right down to the clerk who transposed the numbers by accident.

Right now there are very few consequences for the people who screw this stuff up, so they don't have an incentive to take appropriate care.

I bet people would be a lot more careful if it was their ass on the line not just the poor guy with the unfortunate address.

 

[spat]

There was a thread on this some time ago. I cited the real data. When expressed as a percentage, the number was a fraction of a percent. Not nearly enough to outweigh getting the worse of the worse off of the streets and out of the communities for a long long time. These warrants aren’t served because you didn’t pay a parking ticket.

The worst of the worst are still walking the streets (particularly in Albany and Washington).

You act like there would be a major difference in society if they eliminated no knocks. There wouldn’t.

You consistently overestimate the effect that hyper aggressive policing has.

There are millions of these criminals on the street. Whether you take out few thousand more or less it won't make a difference.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Long but 100 percent spot on. From the changes from a no-knock, to secret grand juries, to the changes of witness testimony, and more.

 

[Grimscale]

Having read this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that all police work must be ceased forthwith due to "What if..." possibilities.


After all, drugs are a victimless crime, right? Conveniently ignoring the overdoses that land one person in the morgue and the children she was taking care of forced on a biological father who didn't want them, didn't have room for them (they ended up sleeping in sleeping bags on the dining room floor!), because the biological mother was also a druggy and in-and-out of jail so many times she had her own parking space.

But, hey.... "what if"... so let's let the criminals all go free, let's stop all police work, because MAYBE sometime, somewhere, someone will resist, resulting in a death (usually the criminal).

 

[Jchrisls]

Having read this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that all police work must be ceased forthwith due to "What if..." possibilities.


After all, drugs are a victimless crime, right? Conveniently ignoring the overdoses that land one person in the morgue and the children she was taking care of forced on a biological father who didn't want them, didn't have room for them (they ended up sleeping in sleeping bags on the dining room floor!), because the biological mother was also a druggy and in-and-out of jail so many times she had her own parking space.

But, hey.... "what if"... so let's let the criminals all go free, let's stop all police work, because MAYBE sometime, somewhere, someone will resist, resulting in a death (usually the criminal).

But what if we did that? (sarcasm)