Red Flag; First Abuse in NY?

[Airborneguy]

Why not tell the Eden PD to go pound salt? No obligation for him to go make an appearance.

Considering you just read what happened from start to finish, how would, “Go pound sand,” have beneficially altered the situation for this man?

 

[Saltwater60]

Not a true “red flag” complaint, as indicated in post. Would need to come from a family member, teacher or LEO. Anonymous complaints aren’t honored under red flag law, thank goodness.

Or the police of DA. Erie county DA John Flynn says he will file one on anyone’s behalf so get ready.

 

[Saltwater60]

This is gonna go south real Fast. There is NOT one of us here that does not have an extended family member/kids teacher/crazy neighbor that does not have a hard on for you. Mark my words.

Yep. Everyone but my neighbor. My neighbor hates guns and hunting. All it would take is for me to aggravate them and see me walk out with a gun to load in my truck for hunting. No doubt in my mind they would call.

 

[Robin]

Considering you just read what happened from start to finish, how would, “Go pound sand,” have beneficially altered the situation for this man?

Maybe a free born man standing his ground is enough. Maybe it wouldn't help, but that is not the point.
Robin

 

[Celt]

Just wait until someone doesn't like how your driving when you have a pro gun, or MAGA type sticker on your vehicle.

Its Gestapo style Denunciation (and I dont say that lightly).

 

[S&W Fan]

Yep. Everyone but my neighbor. My neighbor hates guns and hunting. All it would take is for me to aggravate them and see me walk out with a gun to load in my truck for hunting. No doubt in my mind they would call.

You probably aren’t surprised that most people are horrendously unobservant. If you’re inconspicuous and put your shotgun or rifle in a gun case they will most likely never know or pay attention to what you are doing.

 

[Celt]

You probably aren’t surprised that most people are horrendously unobservant. If you’re inconspicuous and put your shotgun or rifle in a gun case they will most likely never know or pay attention to what you are doing.

I've got some neighbors that gave me lots of problems in the past, as well as a bunch of our other neighbors. When I first moved in I was using my quad on my property, they called the cops and I got to visit. I was told that I can't use it on my own property because my neighbors houses were too close.

These are also the people that called the town and the police to complain about my pro-second Amendment sign back in 2013. I threw a branch, that fell in the road on the edge of my property, into the woods, they called the Troopers and reported me for dumping. The only way they saw that is if they're watching out the window.
They called the cops on kids playing in front of their house, they routinely call the cops every time you hear a dirt bike or four wheeler riding down the street, they even call the cops on a kid who threw a banana peel in the woods.

They have cameras set up all over their property, even have a camera looking directly at the bus stop. These people have a water sprinkler set up on a proximity sensor that if you get too close to the driveway the water goes off and it will spray you.

These are the types of Neighbors that will definitely look to cause trouble.

 

[libertysnake]

Bigger problems? LE doesn't have a leg to stand on if they received an anonymous, out of state complaint. If it was a true "red flag" complaint, then yes, I'm going to try to make things right, ridiculous as it is.

If anything, couldn't you ask them if they could investigate these bogus claims? Not sure how much "protection" of false complaints is in place in reality. LE probably doesn't want extra work regardless. They might keep any results private, but if it's bothering their department I'm sure they'd at least look into it.

But that'd be more @Airborneguy who'd know how a department would realistically react to a bunch of false claims.

 

[S&W Fan]

I've got some neighbors that gave me lots of problems in the past, as well as a bunch of our other neighbors. When I first moved in I was using my quad on my property, they called the cops and I got to visit. I was told that I can't use it on my own property because my neighbors houses were too close.

These are also the people that called the town and the police to complain about my pro-second Amendment sign back in 2013. I threw a branch, that fell in the road on the edge of my property, into the woods, they called the Troopers and reported me for dumping. The only way they saw that is if they're watching out the window.
They called the cops on kids playing in front of their house, they routinely call the cops every time you hear a dirt bike or four wheeler riding down the street, they even call the cops on a kid who threw a banana peel in the woods.

They have cameras set up all over their property, even have a camera looking directly at the bus stop. These people have a water sprinkler set up on a proximity sensor that if you get too close to the driveway the water goes off and it will spray you.

These are the types of Neighbors that will definitely look to cause trouble.

I’m not going to disagree that some people just live to be assholes but your scenario is quite a bit different from worrying about the average joe neighbor who “most” times pays attention to-very little. That is , unless you’ve had ongoing issues.

 

[Celt]

I’m not going to disagree that some people just live to be assholes and your scenario is quite a bit different from worrying about the average joe neighbor who “most” times pays attention to-very little. That is , unless you’ve had ongoing issues.

Agreed, most people are not wired like these people. I was koreso venting my stress that I have to contend with. I like to shoot the bb gun with my kids in the yard, along with my airsoft replicas that i use for training. Now, I dont know if ill train outdoors anymore for fear of a visit.

 

[S&W Fan]

Agreed, most people are not wired like these people. I was koreso venting my stress that I have to contend with. I like to shoot the bb gun with my kids in the yard, along with my airsoft replicas that i use for training. Now, I dont know if ill train outdoors anymore for fear of a visit.

With dick head neighbors like that I’d be worried as well now, with shooting the BB and airsoft guns in their view.

 

[Airborneguy]

If anything, couldn't you ask them if they could investigate these bogus claims? Not sure how much "protection" of false complaints is in place in reality. LE probably doesn't want extra work regardless. They might keep any results private, but if it's bothering their department I'm sure they'd at least look into it.

But that'd be more @Airborneguy who'd know how a department would realistically react to a bunch of false claims.

They couldn't have acted on a report like this. It’s a wellness check basically. He could’ve theoretically told them to, “pound sand,” but if this is going to become a thing, what efficacy is there to making your first one adversarial with the same department that will be investigating your second one? Think smart guys, jeez. (Not directed at you Liberty).

My understanding is that the new law requires a judge’s approval before any action is taken. Much different scenario. These won’t be as easy as you guys think to obtain.

 

[Airborneguy]

Agreed, most people are not wired like these people. I was koreso venting my stress that I have to contend with. I like to shoot the bb gun with my kids in the yard, along with my airsoft replicas that i use for training. Now, I dont know if ill train outdoors anymore for fear of a visit.

Call the local police yourself, confirm that it is legal and get a name. When your neighbors call and you tell the responding cop, “Hey I know, my neighbors right? I expected this so I called you guys last week and Officer Snuffy told me I was good to go,” the scenario won’t play out to their liking.

 

[ECU Pirates]

What's the LOE to even make the effort to get down to the station and just talk with someone for five minute? Is that worth the time and money dealing with bigger problems if you don't take the path of least resistance?

Think about it from a practical standpoint.

It was an hour and a half meeting. Just saying....

 

[Celt]

Call the local police yourself, confirm that it is legal and get a name. When your neighbors call and you tell the responding cop, “Hey I know, my neighbors right? I expected this so I called you guys last week and Officer Snuffy told me I was good to go,” the scenario won’t play out to their liking.

Thats good advice.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

I've met Adam, and shopped in his store. Everyone there is friendly and he'd be the last one I'd be concerned about.
FUAC
FUDEMS
FULIBERALS
every one of you.

 

[Saltwater60]

You probably aren’t surprised that most people are horrendously unobservant. If you’re inconspicuous and put your shotgun or rifle in a gun case they will most likely never know or pay attention to what you are doing.

Most likely I’ll be fine. They live on the non-driveway side of things and I always load my guns in my truck in the driveway. You just never know when they will drive by or walk the dog by. Also now I had a tree cut down and they can now see through the fence. I’m not overly worried but it’s something I think about.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

My understanding is that the new law requires a judge’s approval before any action is taken. Much different scenario. These won’t be as easy as you guys think to obtain.

Hey @Airborneguy , I'd like to think you are right when it comes to judges, but my own experience with two siblings who are bat shit crazy, and have long standing grudges against me leaves me uneasy. They have filed literally dozens of police reports against me with my local PD in NY making countless false accusations of threats, up to and including death threats. I would imagine that a randomly assigned judge, with no knowledge of the prior history of them making false accusations ( I even have written proof of them committing perjury that I have used in court already) would, when faced with some dramatic accusation, issue a red flag order. I mean how are they going to know that the accusations they are reading (and that we, the accused, are not there to refute are BS)? Because we, the "ex parte" accused are not there, judges will very likely err on the side of caution, and will grant a preliminary red flag order. And the worst thing, is that the ERPO laws provide no recourse against the person making false accusations!

Can you tell me that if you were a judge reading an accusation like this sample below, that you would not grant a red flag order? BTW, EVERY "accusation" in the sample letter below is FALSE,! I culled them from the various false police reports that have actually been filed against me to give you an idea of the BS that can get spewed.

To whom it may concern:

I am writing this to ask for your help. My, brother, William, has me very concerned. He has suffered severe emotional issues throughout his life that have made him increasingly volatile and hostile. Many years ago, I recall that he was forced into anger management counseling. And worse, several years ago, his pistol permit was suspended over a confrontation with a random person in the street in front of his home. I have heard from several of his neighbors that they are increasingly worried about his temperament.

He has threatened my life multiple times before, and I am simply terrified of him. All of my most recent attempts to reach out to him have been met with him spewing increasingly hateful responses. Given his violent nature; his access to weapons, his prior threats of deadly physical violence made against me, and others, along with his access to deadly weapons, I am begging the court to intervene.

I would bet that most judges upon reading that would grant an ERPO.

 

[libertysnake]

Hey @Airborneguy , I'd like to think you are right when it comes to judges, but my own experience with two siblings who are bat shit crazy, and have long standing grudges against me leaves me uneasy. They have filed literally dozens of police reports against me with my local PD in NY making countless false accusations of threats, up to and including death threats. I would imagine that a randomly assigned judge, with no knowledge of the prior history of them making false accusations ( I even have written proof of them committing perjury that I have used in court already) would, when faced with some dramatic accusation, issue a red flag order. I mean how are they going to know that the accusations they are reading (and that we, the accused, are not there to refute are BS? Because we, the "ex parte" accused are not there, judges will very likely err on the side of caution, and will grant a preliminary red flag order. And the worst thing, is that the ERPO laws provide no recourse against the person making false accusations!

Can you tell me that if you were a judge reading an accusation like this sample below, that you would not grant a red flag order? BTW, EVERY "accusation" in the sample letter below is FALSE,! I culled them from the various false police reports that have actually been filed against me to give you an idea of the BS that can get spewed.

To whom it may concern:

I am writing this to ask for your help. My, brother, William, has me very concerned. He has suffered severe emotional issues throughout his life that have made him increasingly volatile and hostile. Many years ago, I recall that he was forced into anger management counseling. And worse, several years ago, his pistol permit was suspended over a confrontation with a random person in the street in front of his home. I have heard from several of his neighbors that they are increasingly worried about his temperament.

He has threatened my life multiple times before, and I am simply terrified of him. All of my most recent attempts to reach out to him have been met with him spewing increasingly hateful responses. Given his violent nature; his access to weapons, his prior threats of deadly physical violence made against me, and others, along with his access to deadly weapons, I am begging the court to intervene.

I would bet that most judges upon reading that would grant an ERPO.

I agree that there does need to be recourse if people make false accusations that seem to go against what everyone else who knows the person says. That's the only way to discourage false reports.

If someone is obviously a danger, then other people will be able to attest to that. If not, then they have some serious explaining to do with regard to why they think that's the case.

In fact, fuck it -- the person filing a report should have to go to the station and be interviewed. Not just a simple letter. Let them put in the work if they're serious about it and willing to let other witnesses back up their story.

 

[Criticalt]

Another reason im happy of a few things....
I have no neighbors
I have a small, wonderful family.
And I have very few friends who are all very loyal.

 

[Mosinitis]

I said it here many times. I don't own any firearms. I shoot guns that I borrowed from a gentleman in upstate nursing home.

 

[Celt]

I said it here many times. I don't own any firearms. I shoot guns that I borrowed from a gentleman in upstate nursing home.

It's a shame, as the only guns I have are my registered handguns. Any pictures I have posted in the past of guns are either guns I like or guns that I had but no longer have.

Going on gun forums and showing off your new toy is the type of thing that is going to fade away into the past because many people will be too concerned about putting that out there since all of these forums are being monitored.

 

[Airborneguy]

Hey @Airborneguy , I'd like to think you are right when it comes to judges, but my own experience with two siblings who are bat shit crazy, and have long standing grudges against me leaves me uneasy. They have filed literally dozens of police reports against me with my local PD in NY making countless false accusations of threats, up to and including death threats. I would imagine that a randomly assigned judge, with no knowledge of the prior history of them making false accusations ( I even have written proof of them committing perjury that I have used in court already) would, when faced with some dramatic accusation, issue a red flag order. I mean how are they going to know that the accusations they are reading (and that we, the accused, are not there to refute are BS? Because we, the "ex parte" accused are not there, judges will very likely err on the side of caution, and will grant a preliminary red flag order. And the worst thing, is that the ERPO laws provide no recourse against the person making false accusations!

Can you tell me that if you were a judge reading an accusation like this sample below, that you would not grant a red flag order? BTW, EVERY "accusation" in the sample letter below is FALSE,! I culled them from the various false police reports that have actually been filed against me to give you an idea of the BS that can get spewed.

To whom it may concern:

I am writing this to ask for your help. My, brother, William, has me very concerned. He has suffered severe emotional issues throughout his life that have made him increasingly volatile and hostile. Many years ago, I recall that he was forced into anger management counseling. And worse, several years ago, his pistol permit was suspended over a confrontation with a random person in the street in front of his home. I have heard from several of his neighbors that they are increasingly worried about his temperament.

He has threatened my life multiple times before, and I am simply terrified of him. All of my most recent attempts to reach out to him have been met with him spewing increasingly hateful responses. Given his violent nature; his access to weapons, his prior threats of deadly physical violence made against me, and others, along with his access to deadly weapons, I am begging the court to intervene.

I would bet that most judges upon reading that would grant an ERPO.

The simple fix is to have repercussions for false reports. Hopefully that’s added in the future since the odds of this new law being repealed are near zero.

 

[Jsmegs77]

The simple fix is to have repercussions for false reports. Hopefully that’s added in the future since the odds of this new law being repealed are near zero.

I'd expect that existing statutes already cover making a false report to police, slander/libel and false accusations generally. But, that won't be enough, as you'll still have the ugly situation where people can file these accusations with little to no consequence, while the accused has to spend lots of time and money defending themselves. Your basic denial of service attack, applied to real life. Just like family court, where one party (usually the batshit crazy one) files petition after petition, causing massive expense and disruption to the life of the other party as they attempt to defend themselves.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The simple fix is to have repercussions for false reports. Hopefully that’s added in the future since the odds of this new law being repealed are near zero.

Isn’t filing a false report already illegal? If so it isn’t really enforced. People do this all the time to get orders of protection and child custody.

 

[Airborneguy]

Isn’t filing a false report already illegal? If so it isn’t really enforced. People do this all the time to get orders of protection and child custody.

Civil “reports” are different. The charge for filing a false report is for making criminal reports.

Last week we almost had one. Long story short, the arrest was made but in her interview, even though she kept insisting she “made it up,” it was pretty obvious that the perp had pressured her to drop the charges. His charges will likely go away because of her lack of cooperation, but she’s not being prosecuted for the false report due to how inconsistent her statement was that she, “made it up.”