Scaling down to compact, and maybe 9mm

[MuttCat]

I have a 1911 commander sized 45 that I bought a proper belt and pancake holster for. It's been a few years now, and I've reached the conclusion that the pistol and holster simply don't work for me. It's a concealment issue mostly, but I no longer have the upper body flexibility either. Anyway, I spoke with a gentleman named Mike in New Hartford about holster solutions, and he got me thinking about compact nines.

I've always been a 45 person. Years ago I had a Para that had a 3" barrel, and it was pretty nice and easy to conceal. But now I'm thinking that if I go back to a compact, should I go with a nine? I can't easily reach back to something behind my hip, so perhaps appendix carry, and the nines can be a bit more short and slim.

Anybody else wrestle with this?

 

[misunderestimated]

I never wrestled with this. Ill always remember my first trips to the gun store to purchase fire arms. I would go in with money and the thought of a small easy to carry fire arm and would leave with my money still in my pocket and being told if it wasn't steel and at least a 45 I was a sissy, needless to say I been carrying a small 9mm or 380 for decades now and never looked back . with the newer Ammo designed for short barreled small guns Jump in the waters fine. Also I am a big fan of all of the new Kydex holsters. Smaller then leather, don't retain sweat , there is allot available you just have to get out of the full size 45 cal 1911 or 2011 mentality

 

[Marine Cpl]

I did. My first was a Colt Series 70 full size. I carried that for about a year. I got tired of having to dress around it with loose fitting clothing. My next purchase was going to be an XDS in .45 but I did some research on ballistics compared to 9mm. I ended up buying a 9mm since based on all the tests I’ve seen, they all penetrate within inches of one another and expand to within millimeters of one another. The capacity of 2 extra rounds with 9mm also cemented my choice.

 

[misunderestimated]

How nice is it going to be when you can throw out your vest that you thought no one realized you had a gun and you always had to wear to hide that over sized 45

 

[BDinPutnam]

Even moreso in NY then elsewhere (because 10+1 maximum capacity, regardless of caliber), conceability and comfort are kings. What's better, the 45 you leave at home or the 9mm you take everywhere?

 

[That_FNG]

Go with a single stack. For me the width makes a bigger difference then the length. I love my shield EZ for conceal. Single stack width makes it easy, but the length of the grip allows all my fingers to fit without needing a mag extension. Too me 9mm vs 45 isn’t that big of a deal. The size of a 45 hollow point hole isn’t that much bigger than a 9mm hollow point hole. I view it as, whatever caliber you can shoot the fastest and most accurately with the most rounds on target is the best one to carry. It doesn’t matter what caliber you pick if you can not quickly put a lot of rounds on target. Right now with my sill level I prefer the 380 as I can put 8 rounds on target in the time it takes me to put 3-4 rounds of 45 or 9 on target. As my skill improves I may go to a 45 or a 9 as a carry round. Your mileage may vary however.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Go with a single stack. For me the width makes a bigger difference then the length. I love my shield EZ for conceal. Single stack width makes it easy, but the length of the grip allows all my fingers to fit without needing a mag extension. Too me 9mm vs 45 isn’t that big of a deal. The size of a 45 hollow point hole isn’t that much bigger than a 9mm hollow point hole. I view it as, whatever caliber you can shoot the fastest and most accurately with the most rounds on target is the best one to carry. It doesn’t matter what caliber you pick if you can not quickly put a lot of rounds on target. Right now with my sill level I prefer the 380 as I can put 8 rounds on target in the time it takes me to put 3-4 rounds of 45 or 9 on target. As my skill improves I may go to a 45 or a 9 as a carry round. Your mileage may vary however.

This!

Also, no matter your skill level, even if you are pretty good with a higher recoiling caliber, you will always still be better with a lower recoiling one.

 

[kev74]

I've got no qualms about carrying a 9mm.

For what its worth, I've got a Shield and SCCY both in 9mm, and I carry the SCCY more often. They are very similar in size - they fit in the same holsters - and I get 10+1 instead of 7 or 8 +1. If I wanted to spend more money, I'd go for the Sig or something similar and keep the 10 + 1 capacity.

 

[Chevusa]

9mm is a very effective carry round. I often carry my G43X or my new P365 and they are very comfortable and very slim and you can forget you've got them on. Go with a minimal keydex holster. You'll be well armed and it will take care pretty much any situation you find yourself in.

With all of that being said, I do also like to carry my G30S (.45ACP) on occasion. A friend of mine who is a SWAT team member has told me when they've had to shoot charging dogs, the damage done with the .45ACP round is noticeably more devastating and that is why the SWAT team members carry it. That is a real life scenario which can sometimes tell us more of a story than just shooting a block of gel. On paper 9,40, and 45 are all about the same, but that doesn't always translate exactly the same to the real world.

 

[HEX]

I absolutely wrestled with this for a long time and eventually came out the other side with a very compact 9mm.

For most of my adult life I carried full size 1911s , K to L framed revolvers , and large steel framed 9mms. This was no problem for me for all those years as I was a very large (not fat) and strong person and those were the guns I trained with, worked with, and shot well. I never had much of a problem with concealment (generally OWB) due to my wide shoulder span and concealing under untucked button down shirts or inside a suit jacket. When I did need more concealment, for some specific occasion, I had some smaller options, but I refused to use guns with DAO triggers so I never carried any of the really tiny little guys. That, and with my rather large hands I've always had a hard time getting a good hold and finger placement on little guns.

Then I started both getting older and (more importantly) having serious health issues though.. and thus the big and heavy guns were becoming problematic in different ways. Not carrying them was hard for me though. I knew I couldn't shoot the tiny guns anywhere near as well as i did full size, and..well, maybe some of it was just getting over myself and pride; to admit it was something I needed to adapt to. Perhaps much in the same way as it took me a very long time to be willing to use a cane in public, even though I really needed it. I fought it for years.

So, in the end, maybe about 5 years ago I think, I finally managed to transition almost completely to a SIg 938 9mm. It retains the 1911 SA controls I was accustomed to but the size and weight are extremely more manageable. I absolutely dont shoot it as well and likely never will, but it's a trade off that has to be made for me to keep carrying every day.
I'll still occasionally carry one of the bigger boys, but only when I know I'm going to be passing through somewhere where the chances are higher of me needing it (which does not happen often), and in such a case it's normally adding the bigger guy and keeping the little guy as a BUG.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Great post, @HEX.



PS my intent at some point is to go to one of the CZ 75 compacts and a P238 for many of the same reasons. Concealability and comfort but also- familiarity with the controls (I shoot my CZ 75 BD better than any other handgun I have).

 

[Karpteach]

A Sig 227 is a compact .45. I had to give up my .45’s since I have arthritis in my hands and wrists. I think a .9mm would work fine for you.

 

[BDinPutnam]

A Sig 227 is a compact .45. I had to give up my .45’s since I have arthritis in my hands and wrists. I think a .9mm would work fine for you.

FWIW I have one, double stack 45 10+ 1. Nice gun, very accurate, but I generally go for the CZ.

 

[HEX]

my intent at some point is to go to one of the CZ 75 compacts and a P238 for many of the same reasons. Concealability and comfort but also- familiarity with the controls (I shoot my CZ 75 BD better than any other handgun I have).

Same for me with the 75 SP-01. Being a CZ fan, I certainly considered the compacts in those lines. I may well have chosen a RAMI if it had worked out that way, but it was really more a thing of the P938 coming to me at the right time for the right price. When I was working through the transition, as health was a factor as I mentioned, so subsequently became wealth as a bigger issue (as it does).

I really do like the 938 though in any case. I haven't shot it a lot, but just enough to believe I can trust it. The finger gripped 7 round mag makes it fairly handleable; though my hands are still kind of too big for it. Trying to use the 6 round flush mag is terrible for me and I can barely keep from my ring finger pulling off of it. Not something one wants to battle with should the need arise to use it.

With my mitts, it's not a 'pinky' extension at all, just the only way I can hold onto the grip with two fingers. If I'm holding it correctly for shooting, my middle and ring fingers wrap all the way around to be pressing the swell of my thumb/palm. For the same reason, trigger finger placement is a little wonky because I have to bend it way out to get the pad of my pointer finger in the right place. So, you can see why I'd prefer to carry large framed guns.. but it is what it is.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Yeah, see your hands are bigger than mine- cant get a pic as that pistol is in MI but with the extension I can get a full-size grip on the 238.

That is actually the only gun I can shoot both better and faster than my full size CZ. I like the 227 but it is bulky even if it is a "compact", and I shoot the 9 better anyway. I cant imagine trying to conceal the 227 just for its width alone. I will occasionally open carry it here on the homestead in a big ass 1791 paddle holster.

Oddly enough though, I shoot my father in law's (soon to be mine I hope) full size M&P 45 better than the CZ or the 227. But I cant imagine concealing that gun, either.

What were we talking about again?

Oh yeah we went almost a full page in a "9mm vs 45" thread without devolving into caliber wars!

 

[MuttCat]

Nooooo, no 9 v 45 bottomless pit. It shows my age, in the service my issued sidearm was a 45, and even then it was a chore dragging that thing around...until I got out of armor and they gave me a 16!

Last year I started looking at 9s and I did focus on that SIG 938, the CZ RAMI too. But I got sidetracked and didn't follow through. I do have a P3AT that is my daily, but I wanted to up my game. Yeah, I guess the 45 is a mindset thing.

Unfortunately the gun market is mostly out of stock, but I'll go back to looking anyway. I think I would still prefer the 1911 format though. Hey, good advice guys. I'm meeting this holster maker next week, and hopefully he will let me pick his brain. He's been around for a long time and perhaps his knowledge of carry options will help steer me along.

Hot one today, stay cool.

 

[MuttCat]

How nice is it going to be when you can throw out your vest that you thought no one realized you had a gun and you always had to wear to hide that over sized 45

Or fanny pack...anybody even remember that?

 

[Newguyhere]

I had two 938’s and was not fond of accidentally flipping the safety off in the car. It happened a couple of times. I moved up to a Dan Wesson Valkyrie in 9mm but am now carrying the Sig 365 because it is smaller and offers more rounds.

I have a lightly used Valkyrie for sale if you are interested.

 

[livingston]

I would at least look at the VP9SK

 

[livingston]

 

[BDinPutnam]

Oh I would add that I like the concept of the little 1911 9mm from Kimber too but I have seen varying reports on quality control.

 

[Chevusa]

Or fanny pack...anybody even remember that?

Fanny pack... the only 100% effective form of birth control!

 

[Cooolone]

This!

Also, no matter your skill level, even if you are pretty good with a higher recoiling caliber, you will always still be better with a lower recoiling one.

SKILL Trump's all other attributed... Recoil or no! And it's not true that because you're good on a higher caliber, you'll be better with a lower. Shoot a .45acp and then go .22 and you'll learn quickly what you're doing wrong! Lol

Again, skill... You wanna hit what you're shooting at! Caliber is secondary

Fanny pack... the only 100% effective form of birth control!

Hahahaha, haven't seen one of those in years! And I'd wear my belly band any day before getting caught with a fanny pack hahaha just sayin

That aside, I love my P238 with Underwwod Loads... Same hit as a 9mm, but much more concealable, and light carry (summer months). 7 round mags, always carry 2x extra!

Good luck!

 

[MuttCat]

The Sig 365 seems always popular, and I have heard of the safety issue with the 938. And I'll confess to being a Kimber fan, though never owned any. Well, my brain is working overtime now, way too many choices. Crazy finishes, crazy grips, combat this, tactical that, and then there's holsters. Wesson is here in NY, a little over an hour away. Call me crazy, but Wesson or Kimber, it would be nice to have something made here, if for anything to stick it that ass hole in Albany. Thanks all for the vids, I'll check them out this morning. As an aside, here's the guy I plan to visit this week,

Tauris Holsters, L.L.C. - Custom Leather

I guess he's been around for quite a while...only working part time now...kind of like a school field trip!

 

[Edwardteach72]

Oh god Deff. get a DW over a Kimber any day of the week.

Kimber is entry level 1911s sold at mid level prices (aka over priced) just because people have come to believe Kimber make quality 1911s

 

[Blimey]

I’m actually shocked anybody would regularly carry anything but these smaller pistols.

 

[Steal2B]

I have heard of the safety issue with the 938

I was reluctant to respond to this since it may derail your thread but it brings up a safety issue. Well it's not a safety issue as it was described in a 1911 forum, it's a climbing over a fence on a cliff edge issue and complaining there is no fence.

Don't buy any single action 1911ish design if you plan on defeating the safety by resting the hammer on the sear.

1911s are designed to be Cocked and locked. It does not matter if you have a Colt Mustang, Sig 938, Sig 238, Kimber, Springfield, or etc ... (the pinterest video was a moron mis-using a 938 but all the Colt descendents are similarly designed) they are not designed to have the hammer rest on the sear in a half coked position since the safety is not engaged. If you have a round in the chamber, you do not force the hammer to a partial cocked position with the safety engaged by resting the hammer on the sear instead of cocking the hammer and engaging the safety. If you force the hammer to rest on the sear the safety will not be in play and if you pull the trigger you may get a strike on the primer and it may be enough of a strike to fire the chambered round.

 

[MuttCat]

The deal is done. The RIA 45 is in my local shop on consignment, and went and purchased a 9mm online. The hand wringing is over.

I didn't get to meet the fellow at Tauris Holsters though. He called and just wasn't up for company. In his own words, he was pretty much at the end of the trail. I wish him well.

 

[BDinPutnam]

"Purchased a 9mm online"?

You're not going to tell us what you bought?

 

[MuttCat]