School me on dies

Deplorable Me · Nov 7, 2020

A turret can be used like a single station or sort of like a progressive. Forster gear is decent quality. For dies I've used my original RCBS stock .223. I just added a Lee factory crimp die for .223 . The run well in bolt or gas guns.

A SAMMI cartridge check gauge will tell you if ammo is to spec for the cartridge you're reloading.

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Darth · Nov 7, 2020

You don't need 3 die rifle sets at this stage. The 3rd die is a neck sizer which you would use instead of a full length sizer to increase brass life if the reloads are going to be used in the same gun, and that gun isn't a semi auto. You can always buy a separate neck sizer later.

JohnD13 · Nov 7, 2020

The Forster press will make the most of those high quality dies. Been using mine for years. Some prefer a separate crimp die, I have done seating and crimping in one set up for a long time without problems. Good choices for your bench!

Darth · Nov 7, 2020

holdover said:
So i dont really need a neck sizer for semi auto? a full length die will do OK?

You can't use a neck sizer for semi.

The brass gets slammed too much to not just need FL resizing.

JohnD13 · Nov 7, 2020

holdover said:
I need a bench?

Hey, if you can bolt it to the dining room table, and live to tell the tale, I'm all for it!

enigma · Nov 7, 2020

When I first started reloading, I didn't have a bench. So, I bolted the press to a short length of 2x6 and then used a big C-clamp to hold the 2x to a table. I did use the dining room table a few times!

repete · Nov 7, 2020

That co axe is more than capable of handling .223. If your pinching pennies (you'll need those pennies to buy primers!) go with a cheaper but name brand single or turret press. With a turret you can set the dies run a bunch of cases and then just turn the turret to the next die and go back and forth whenever you like, never having to remove a die.
I have an old Lyman 6 hole turret set up for .223 and 300BO also with an 'M' die too, love not having to screw in/out dies.

Robin · Nov 7, 2020

Definitely use a full length sizing die when using in a semi-auto!!!!!!!!
Yer buying some high end stuff, you should be good to go!
Robin

meketrefe · Nov 7, 2020

Hi,
I don't think you need a seater with a micrometer for the dies.
It is better to have different buttons if needed for the different bullet shapes than to have the actual micrometer because
once it is set you will have a template empty round as the starter round for a given bullet.
It will be wiser to have a collet crimp die, that is more important than "match" grade setups.

Also forster makes great products but you have to understand the down side of that press design.
Since the Y shape lever goes over the die you will not be able to keep your left hand in the die
for "feeling" like bullet seating or sizing and micro adjustments of the die. Your hands will always
be "in the way" of the lever.

Also, in the future when it comes to brass forming like someone making brass from another calibers
one will need all the leverage and ideally a very strong O type frame with the full threads for the
forming dies. The rockchucker supreme was a classic for this until the redding big boss came out (the one I have)
and now you have the redding supermagnum. They also have a very smooth cam effect at the end
of the stroke due to the angle of the massive link.

I have seen other presses tilt under pressure that is not a huge thing when forming but also some
of those O frames you have some pretty nice features to resize and prime from a tube in the same operation.

IMO don't think because one gets an entry level press and die (like a lee) one could be doing anything less or worse
and everyone can use a small light entry level single stage press to take to the range at some point to work
on reloads. Entry presses produce match rounds. The critical aspects have little to do with any modern press or dies.

Then after you reload a lot you can decide what works for you and even find out what equipment
really works and what doesn't before you go spend a fortune. (ask me how I know)

Any quick change bushing set will give you the "floating feature" and traditional shell holders are cheap
and not many needed anyway.

REloading is a lot of work to do it right so I would collect some ideas that might help you to make it easier
and better while staying safe.

Youtube reviews might help to a degree but they do not say a lot of things that are very important.

meketrefe · Nov 7, 2020

holdover said:
for 223 or Creedmoor would I be better off with the the Redding boss or big boss? considering the rscb summit also.

I have 5 presses and end up almost always using 2 of them due to their classic simplicity and features.
The summit looks impressive but I have seen that one buckle when doing forming from the largest magnums.
I recognize what some wildcatters do is not what the average people would normally do but it also gives the opportunity
to see some of the less obviuos flaws. Fro example I sould not put the summit ahead of the beefiest rockchucker.
I have the rockchucker and the only reason I got the redding big boss 2 is to allow me to load the largest supermagnums
with the largest beefiest O frame at the time. Both amazing presses.
Now you have a larger ruckchucker and you also have the amazing redding supermagnum.
But also keep in mind, what do you need to do what cannot be done with a Lee classic and possibly done better due
to some other features. That is another press I have and the one I take to the range to work in reloads. And can feed primes
from a dispenser, size, deprime into a container, etc...
Same a a lee die set, it can do anything other dies do. The only thing I would say is that even the regular redding and rcbs
die sets with the floating carbide resizing button one can swap in small increments will provide a very nice control
but it is defenetly not needed for the average 223 including achieving match loads.
Brass preparation, consistent charges and neck tension is far more important than any press or dies.

Mosinitis · Nov 7, 2020

holdover said:
Im going to purchase the Forster co ax press. I like the progressives, but it seems to complicated for a beginner and its hard to justify the price , It produces far more rounds an hour then Im going to shoot , not a bad thing, but its more press than I need. I considered the Redding T7 turret, but I felt it might be dangerous if I missed a step , and being new, Its possible. The Forester co ax seems pretty straight forward and everyone seems to like them So now Im decideing which dies to choose. for the moment Im only doing 223.

My choice are between :

RCBS MatchMaster Competition Bushing 2-Die Set

RCBS MatchMaster Competition 338 Lapua Mag Bushing Full Length Sizing,

The RCBS MatchMaster Competition die sets are the perfect sets of dies for the precision handloader looking to craft the most precise round possible....

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Redding Premium Series Deluxe 3-Die Set

Redding Premium Series Deluxe 223 Remington Full Length Sizing, Bullet

Redding Reloading Equipment has focused on building the finest quality, American Made products for the precision handloading market since 1946. Redding...

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Forster Co-Ax Single Stage Press

Forster Co-Ax Single Stage Reloading Press

The Forster Co-Ax Single Stage press is one of the finest presses manufactured today. Loaded with features not found on other presses such as "Snap...

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Good choice on the press. I love mine.
Forget 3 die rifle sets. You only need 2 dies. Full Length Sizing and bullet Seating dies. I would go with Forster dies as well, but others are also good. Forster makes good quality tools at lower prices then Redding.

repete · Nov 8, 2020

meketrefe said:
Brass preparation, consistent charges and neck tension is far more important than any press or dies.

For sure! If the brass isn't the same in all aspects each round fired will be different, might be a little might be a lot!

Mosinitis · Nov 8, 2020

holdover said:
Ok, what about measuring powders? I hear the electronic ones are kind of touchy, The powder droppers are not always accurate, the hand scales are slow.

what do you use?

I used all of the above and agree with your assessment. The cheapest and most accurate option is to use an inexpensive Lee Perfect Measure, good mechanical scale and a trickle. Drop 0.5 grain below target weight. Trickle up the rest using a trickler and mechanical scale.

meketrefe · Nov 8, 2020

holdover said:
Ok, what about measuring powders? I hear the electronic ones are kind of touchy, The powder droppers are not always accurate, the hand scales are slow.
what do you use?

Everyone should know how to use a mechanical scale but eventually one will gravitate towards an accurate and handy electronic one just
for convenience of use. Since one can reload by volume, and unless one is loading very small cartriges one can do less measures assuming
one has a consisent way to measure powder by volume. For example a good powder thrower loading for a 308 tossing powders with differences in 1/2 grain is not going to create any measurable results for the average use.
Only people loading for match loads might choose to load every single load with the maximum accuracy and trickle charge the last part
of the load.
IT comes to a point where consistent brass and neck tension and starting pressure has more impact in accuracy and repeatiblity than small
variations in powder.

Obviously when loading a 5.7 fn a small variation is a lot more ciritical than when loading lets say a 300 win mag where even 1 grain difference
might translate into nothing % wise.

1075tech · Nov 9, 2020

The Lee scoops will get you close. They come with a chart that gives you the measure to use based on the density and weight of the powder.

I loaded some 9mm and wanted to use 4.4gr of W231. The scoop that came with the dies gave me exactly that. Consistency in how you scoop is key.

Mosinitis · Nov 9, 2020

holdover said:
I was going to drop a couple bucks on a decent powder thrower, I thought that's the end of that. But from what Im reading some guys are getting way bigger variances than 1 gr. I believe, or it mostly seems, like the stick type of powder doesn't run well in them.

I think Ill try the Lee ,with the scale -trickler and I was wondering about those Lee scoops .

Lee Perfect Measure is just as consistent as top dollar powder (measures) throwers at the small fraction of a price and I am not a big fan of Lee products. Some claim it's even more consistent. They all work on the same principle of dispensing weight by volume and all have the same drawbacks.
When the weight is dispensed by volume there are unavoidable drops that will be way off, while most drops will be close to target weight. Those few (about 2 in 50 drops in my experience) are the fly in the ointment, especially when one is pushing the speed envelope. These off charges can cause pierced primers. This problem is less of an issue with ball powders.
Stay away from Lee mechanical scale, get RCBS or other brands. My favorite is RCBS 505 (Ohaus 505 generic brand). Lee scoops have their use. They are inexpensive and worth getting. Their biggest drawback is static caused by plastic. It's causing powder to stick.

Mosinitis · Nov 9, 2020

Mechanical scale is much easier to use and more accurate when it is placed at an eye level. Having your eyeball, index mark on a beam and index mark on a scale on the same horizontal plane makes all the difference. I have mine set up on a shelf above the bench. It also isolates the scale from vibrations at the bench which is a plus for any scale, mechanical or electronic.

Mosinitis · Nov 9, 2020

RCBS discontinued 505. It is still available on Amazon as generic brand. RCBS 502 is not as good.

https://www.amazon.com/Ohaus-30393272-Reloading-Height-Length/dp/B07K8TQHSW

meketrefe · Nov 10, 2020

holdover said:
I was going to drop a couple bucks on a decent powder thrower, I thought that's the end of that. But from what Im reading some guys are getting way bigger variances than 1 gr. I believe, or it mostly seems, like the stick type of powder doesn't run well in them.

I think Ill try the Lee ,with the scale -trickler and I was wondering about those Lee scoops .

The scoops load by volume. It is the most rudimentary way of reloading and will work great with certain powders but
will not give you much flexibility and some powders will stick.
A quality powder thrower is a must and I would personally avoid anything too sophisticated and the classic RCBS, redding
and even the Hornady are pretty precise.
The lee dispenser works great with many powders and because of the hard plastic will not crunch long extruded powders
but will jam with the smallest ball powders. That is why you want a very low tolerance classic thrower that will work great
with all the powders incuding the finest ball powders w/o gumming up. But for extruded large or small the lee entry level
will work just fine. Same for having a classic lee press if one chooses to start there. I still use mine for the range becuase it is the
smallest and goes up and down and produces match loads like any other press.
In terms of the scoops those can be simply made with different pistol cases trimmed and marked to load by volume like in the people
used to do in the old days. All sort of methods and combinations can be considered. I would say this is an alternative and
valid way of reloading and one should understand it but it is not going to be the most popular way if one has a decent
scale and thrower.
A small digital scale with good consistency will make work simple as one can measure with dispenser, w/o dispenser
get delta masures wiht cases, reset, etc... In other words, speed and convenience.
This doesn't discard that one should know how to use the classic mechanical scales that are also very accurate but in
my experience one is going to lean towards simplicity and convenience as soon as the scale is relible.
I have several scales and the one I used the most is a Jennings JSVG-20 that is a super precise jewellery scale very popular
with jewelers and uses very llittle power from popular AAA batteries.
But I have another one that is less sensitive for the range since the JSVG is for up to 1/20th of a grain that is not really necessary
for reloading so it will pickup variations in the air so not good in the range when shooting int he same bench.
Jennings has other 1/10th grain and 1/2 grain resolution that is more than plenty with up to 300 grams for the largests cases
and rounds one would even reload.
Starting small is a good thing because you can learn the basics and then stake it from there. Don't believe for a second because
you have a modest budget setup is going to be less accurate or worse ammo.
Given some basic tools the things that make the biggest difference are related to time invested and attention to detail, also
for safety, that always.
Decent brass, well prepared, sorted and clean. Consistent powders and also consistent bullet seating, tension and crimp if needed.
No amount of money will resolve any of that if one is not paying attention.
All this premium, match, professional stuff people sale is great for people who already have been reloading, perhaps shoot
matches and enjoy the extra steps and features and they already know the enjoy reloading but they are 100% not necessary to be able to produce match grade ammo.
Everyone enjoys reloading at first but once you do thousands and thousands of rounds one starts to get tired and develop
cramps in hands and will be looking for all possible ways to automate as much as possible w/o over complicating or compromising
on the quality of the results.
I use one of the progressive presses just to deprime brass and sizing before preparation. And after trimming and pockets and 2nd wash
of hte brass I use another to do full automated charges and bullet, crimp etc... both for pistol and service rifle cartriges and a few others.
I also use the forster 3 way trimmer with a motorized unit and slider I created and after 3 systems this is the fastest way to create
a 1 pass trimming in a few seconds that yields cases with differences within 1 or 2 thousands max.
Match ammo with the progressive is totally doable but one needs to slow down considerable and take readings on throws / spreads.
All the wildcats I pretty much reload single stage even I might run brass preparation and priming with the progressive to save
time in those steps.
One thing you will find out is that by reading and then testing things you will get many ideas that is part of the joy of making
the ammo and appreciating it more.
It has been my observation that when people reload they also become better shooters as one discipline of study leads to
another and as a result people observe results more, probably shoot slower when training and then score better in the end.
Starting with the 223 is a good idea since one can start with practice rounds and quickly get into more accurate loads and since
it is such forgiving cartridge to reload it will produce very decent results for a lot of people.

I hope this helps.

Mosinitis · Nov 10, 2020

Electronic scales work well when they work well, but they also can be a pain in the ass. They can be effected by fluorescent light fixtures and electricity spikes, they drift and need to be calibrated before use. They are good for checking the weight of multiple objects as it will take forever on a mechanical scale. Mechanical scales are excellent when you go for a specific target weight as you only need to set it once. Mechanical scale gives more confidence as you witness the weighing process.

School me on dies

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