Shooting the new Army Sniper Rifle
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
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Jaywmustang
.308 Win
I’ll take one
Nevar
.357 mag
OK you guys know way more that I do about Sniper Rifles. But he said the .338 norma is Replacing the Honored .50 ??? Really
Yes..
It also kind of sounds like the .308 is getting replaced by the 300 norma. But they are keeping the 308 for training and it's still well useful at killing.
But they slightly touched on why the 338 norma will replace the 50bmg in a "sniping" / "anti material" role
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Maybe it will bring down the price on the Norma cartridges.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This is not new. They have been pushing for the 338 NM in squad support machine guns.
Basically it is a superior round in terms of ballistics and while it doesn't have the same momentum on the target it is enough to
create a lot of manage plus you have more firepower because you can carry more ammo.
It is a tad slower than the lapua magnum but the norma has been proven to be a more efficient and versatile round due to the shorter case.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I don't like the 300 NM as much as the 338 NM that is the same case but in 338 caliber.
All these 30 calibers based in super-magnums are clearly over-bored. But I get the point because
then they only need 2 bolts vs. a 3rd bolt of a regular magnum. And they also get to consolidate
two bores (.30 bore and bullets). To me it feels that a nice 7mm is missing in that equation but
you know, this is the Army, not always the smartest decisions when it comes to weapons systems.
All these 30 calibers based in super-magnums are clearly over-bored. But I get the point because
then they only need 2 bolts vs. a 3rd bolt of a regular magnum. And they also get to consolidate
two bores (.30 bore and bullets). To me it feels that a nice 7mm is missing in that equation but
you know, this is the Army, not always the smartest decisions when it comes to weapons systems.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This is why 7mm...
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
What 7mm would your suggest?
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
you mean the case/chambering?
I would keep it simple since w/o overboring the round because a short action is going to work well for many but for the biggest bullets one will need a mid(mauser) or long action. I like the 7-08 with long free bore but I also like the 7remmag if one wants a very capable magnum.
But for winning competition the WSSM seems to be the laser beam many are using.
The 284 with long freebore will also do great and with the same 308 bolt in a mid or long action but then you have other great rounds once you step into the LA.
Are you thinking about one?
for that bullet above you will need the largest cases so think short magnum in long action for extra bullet room.
Also they work great in the Winmag aics magazines that is a plus.
I can show you a few variants I have used if you want.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Here an appetizer... lol..
You are being redirected...
www.accurateshooter.com
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
I have been eyeballing the 280 rem/ or AI, 284 win and the 7-08. I have also been checking out both the prc
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
FWIW and I am just talking comfort rather than ballistics, I have a magnaported 300 winmag which is much much more enjoyable to shoot than my father in law's 7mm rem mag (though in fairness his barrel / overall rifle weight is probably a pound or two less than mine, too).
For me personally too I find 300 winmag factory ammo easier to find than 7mm rem.
For me personally too I find 300 winmag factory ammo easier to find than 7mm rem.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
My local wallyworld almost always has 7mm RM in stock. Wish I had more options for local gun stores
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Let me give you my quick 2 cents here based on things I have experienced and discovered over the years:
- A 300 winchester magnum will not have the transonic reach of the 300 Norma Magnum but it will not be
too far behind in terms of extreme long range. This winchester magnum chamber will not be the same
you get with a commercial rifle you have to go with a different reamer and the longest AI magazines
so you can use the best 220gr bullets you have out there.
-By the same token one could shoot with a 300 WSM from a mid or long action (also special reamer)
and achieve similar results because the main problem with the Winmag (like 338 lapua case) if that you
run out of room so then the bullet starts to steal space from your powder charge (deeper into the case)
-That is why the 300 Norma Magnum (like the 338) by being a bit shorter gives you a lot more room to play with
the best and longest bullets the 300 has to offer. Still, a super magnum like that is a lot of freaking powder
for a 30 caliber so your bore will not last with any of them.
-One needs to question do I need the momentum and power of a 338 or even a 30 caliber heavy bullet (like
a military target) that is not the case to punch paper or ring steel?
-If one wants something to hunt the largest game then one should forget (ethically) about extreme long ranges
and stick to regular 338 mag or 300 win mag typical hunting rifles. Or even a mighty and easy 35 whelen among
many others.
-The 7remmag being a bit shorter will give you more range than the 300 winmag because a bit lighter bullets
yet a lot more efficient ballistic-ally talking. Same goes for a 7WSM that in a long action has all the room
to do whatever free-bore you want. Same with the 284 with a bit more reasonable and milder powder charge
but will need a special reamer not the 284 short action reamer (more freebore) or the extra freebore reamed
by hand.
-The thing is one has to decide how important is to get to a one mile. I don't even have a place to shoot
that far and the maximum around here was 1080 yards in a friends farm land and haven even there for over
a year. Also for occasional shooting if one doesn't mind to spend more on bullets there are CNC bullets
that with a simple 308 we all have can shoot those 1500 yards as easy or better as many other popular calibers
in 6 and 6.5 mm and in the end you still have a very versatile round for everything else. What you save
in those extra occasional bullets you will save later on in powder and barrels from a dedicated long range
magnum that can get pretty expensive to shoot.
- For shooting long range one doesn't need a magnum nor a short action or expensive rounds. One can
learn more with a compact round as simple as the 223 or grendel. One might actually learn more with
a 80-82gr 223 bullet because will require more careful wind calculations and adjustment.
-for a bit more punch Even a 6x45, 6tcu, or a 6mm Grendel or a venerable 6mmBR that is a joy to shoot and king of BR
will be a fraction of a cost of many other calibers since in the 22 and 6mm you have amazing 500-600 bullets
value packs and they use a lot less powder.
So less can become more, it really depends on what you need and remember that what you think you need
might be very different to what you really need and what might end up enjoying more.
- A 300 winchester magnum will not have the transonic reach of the 300 Norma Magnum but it will not be
too far behind in terms of extreme long range. This winchester magnum chamber will not be the same
you get with a commercial rifle you have to go with a different reamer and the longest AI magazines
so you can use the best 220gr bullets you have out there.
-By the same token one could shoot with a 300 WSM from a mid or long action (also special reamer)
and achieve similar results because the main problem with the Winmag (like 338 lapua case) if that you
run out of room so then the bullet starts to steal space from your powder charge (deeper into the case)
-That is why the 300 Norma Magnum (like the 338) by being a bit shorter gives you a lot more room to play with
the best and longest bullets the 300 has to offer. Still, a super magnum like that is a lot of freaking powder
for a 30 caliber so your bore will not last with any of them.
-One needs to question do I need the momentum and power of a 338 or even a 30 caliber heavy bullet (like
a military target) that is not the case to punch paper or ring steel?
-If one wants something to hunt the largest game then one should forget (ethically) about extreme long ranges
and stick to regular 338 mag or 300 win mag typical hunting rifles. Or even a mighty and easy 35 whelen among
many others.
-The 7remmag being a bit shorter will give you more range than the 300 winmag because a bit lighter bullets
yet a lot more efficient ballistic-ally talking. Same goes for a 7WSM that in a long action has all the room
to do whatever free-bore you want. Same with the 284 with a bit more reasonable and milder powder charge
but will need a special reamer not the 284 short action reamer (more freebore) or the extra freebore reamed
by hand.
-The thing is one has to decide how important is to get to a one mile. I don't even have a place to shoot
that far and the maximum around here was 1080 yards in a friends farm land and haven even there for over
a year. Also for occasional shooting if one doesn't mind to spend more on bullets there are CNC bullets
that with a simple 308 we all have can shoot those 1500 yards as easy or better as many other popular calibers
in 6 and 6.5 mm and in the end you still have a very versatile round for everything else. What you save
in those extra occasional bullets you will save later on in powder and barrels from a dedicated long range
magnum that can get pretty expensive to shoot.
- For shooting long range one doesn't need a magnum nor a short action or expensive rounds. One can
learn more with a compact round as simple as the 223 or grendel. One might actually learn more with
a 80-82gr 223 bullet because will require more careful wind calculations and adjustment.
-for a bit more punch Even a 6x45, 6tcu, or a 6mm Grendel or a venerable 6mmBR that is a joy to shoot and king of BR
will be a fraction of a cost of many other calibers since in the 22 and 6mm you have amazing 500-600 bullets
value packs and they use a lot less powder.
So less can become more, it really depends on what you need and remember that what you think you need
might be very different to what you really need and what might end up enjoying more.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The "7remmag" we are talking about is not the standard chambering but you can start with a commercial chamber
and rifle and take it from there. It is not accident why the 7remmag was a special purpose sniper rifle for the FBI
for many years.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Hornady to supply 300 PRC Ammunition to US DoD | Soldier Systems Daily
Grand Island, NE — Hornady has been awarded a contract to provide its 300 PRC ammunition to the United States Department of Defense. The 300 Precision Rifle ...
soldiersystems.net
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Hornady to supply 300 PRC Ammunition to US DoD | Soldier Systems Daily
Grand Island, NE — Hornady has been awarded a contract to provide its 300 PRC ammunition to the United States Department of Defense. The 300 Precision Rifle ...soldiersystems.net
Only that they should be smart enough to know that Bench Rest style case designs with 30 degree shoulder angles or more
are never adopted by armies. Aside from special purpose, all service calibers use smaller angles so they are more reliable
in all situations.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
I guess those special purpose solders can have whatever they want from what I have read
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
yes but there is also a lot of marketing and pressure from the lobby to push for stuff that in the long run doesn't end up making it.
Evolution and innovation is good but sometimes something simple is better and specially something that is already available or could
be slightly improved w/o reinventing the wheel.
like general Kalashnikov once said in one of his interviews.... anyone can design something complicated, the real challenge is to design
and make something simple that works really well.
Like in other industries the Military Industrial complex and Firearms/weapons industry are under a lot of pressure to push
for new product development and marketing, and unfortunately many times, they loose sight of some pretty fundamental directives.
A bit like the Blackout syndrome, lol. or Remingtons many fiascos based on BS ideas.