So what's the deal with C&R Colt SP1s?

[SuffolkArms]

Now that Colt SP1s are 50 years old, can we get them transferred and registered as per the SAFE Act? I was recently informed that one can still register C&R assault weapons. I'd purchase a late 1960s Colt SP1 if I could keep all the features. Does anybody have more concrete info if FFLs are transferring such weapons made after 1963 but prior to 1969?

 

[Twogunwilly]

Modify & Comply, why sign the innocent firearms death warrant.

 

[SuffolkArms]

Modify & Comply, why sign the innocent firearms death warrant.

1. Thorsden stocks break when dropped.
2. You can't get a proper grip with a spur/grip wrap.
3. Extended NY Trigger Guards are out of stock.
4. Getting a high end barrel pinned and welded makes me sick.
5. Fixed magazines make double feeds a dealbreaker.
6. BF-10 Loader < Removable Magazine.
7. Don't have to neuter an American classic.
8. Can pretend to live in America until they tell me to get rid of the rifle at which point I can move it out of state.

 

[Twogunwilly]

I think the registration window closed long ago.

 

[SuffolkArms]

I think the registration window closed long ago.

I've heard of C&R assault weapons being registered as late as last summer, my question was mainly if anybody had heard of post 1963 C&R weapons that had been through this process. It seems the open question is what "current date" means in this exception to the assault weapon definition of PL 265:

(vi) any firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least
fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas
thereof that is validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter;

It appears some believe it to mean 2013, while it could conceivably mean 2019.

PL 400 appears to allow registering assault weapons exempted by (vi) at any time, as long as the registration happens within 30 days of the assault weapon being transferred into the state:

16-a. Registration. (a) An owner of a weapon defined in paragraph (e)
or (f) of subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this chapter,
possessed before the date of the effective date of the chapter of the
laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph, must make an
application to register such weapon with the superintendent of state
police, in the manner provided by the superintendent, or by amending a
license issued pursuant to this section within one year of the effective
date of this subdivision except any weapon defined under subparagraph
(vi) of paragraph (g) of subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of
this chapter transferred into the state may be registered at any time,
provided such weapons are registered within thirty days of their
transfer into the state.

 

[fnfalguy]

I was looking at that route with both a FAL as well as the older colt. By the description in the safe act they would registered as C&Rs you can still register a C&R as well. For me, it was cost. The most recent colt (1964 SP1) I came across this week has an asking price of $3400. The FALs are higher than that.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Hypothetically if you could- why *would* you spend thousands of dollars in order to have a long gun you have registered with the state, which you can't sell or transfer (except out of state or to an FFL), which is subject to periodic reregistration, and which you can't keep in the family when you die?

 

[SuffolkArms]

Hypothetically if you could- why *would* you spend thousands of dollars in order to have a long gun you have registered with the state, which you can't sell or transfer (except out of state or to an FFL), which is subject to periodic reregistration, and which you can't keep in the family when you die?

From PL 265:

e) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in subparagraph (v) of paragraph (e) of
subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this chapter as added by
chapter one hundred eighty-nine of the laws of two thousand and
otherwise lawfully possessed pursuant to such chapter of the laws of two
thousand prior to September fourteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four;
(f) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of this
subdivision, possessed prior to the date of enactment of the chapter of
the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph;
(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by
bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently
inoperable; or (C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.
921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to 18 U.S.C. 922 as such weapon was manufactured
on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere fact that a
weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to mean that
such weapon is an assault weapon;
(v) any weapon validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter. Such weapons shall be subject to the
provisions of paragraph (h) of this subdivision;
(vi) any firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least
fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas
thereof that is validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter;
(h) Any weapon defined in paragraph (e) or (f) of this subdivision and
any large capacity ammunition feeding device that was legally possessed
by an individual prior to the enactment of the chapter of the laws of
two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph, may only be sold to,
exchanged with or disposed of to a purchaser authorized to possess such
weapons or to an individual or entity outside of the state provided that
any such transfer to an individual or entity outside of the state must
be reported to the entity wherein the weapon is registered within
seventy-two hours of such transfer. An individual who transfers any such
weapon or large capacity ammunition device to an individual inside New
York state or without complying with the provisions of this paragraph
shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor unless such large capacity
ammunition feeding device, the possession of which is made illegal by
the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this
paragraph, is transferred within one year of the effective date of the
chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph.

Only assault weapons that (h) applies to can not be transferred within the state. (h) applies to all weapons defined in paragraph (e) or (f), paragraph (g) exempts rifles that fall under exemption (vi) from these restrictions. C&R assault weapons fall outside of these restrictions as per (vi).

 

[GOYABEAN]

Cheaper if you move out of land

 

[BDinPutnam]

From PL 265:


Only assault weapons that (h) applies to can not be transferred within the state. (h) applies to all weapons defined in paragraph (e) or (f), paragraph (g) exempts rifles that fall under exemption (vi) from these restrictions. C&R assault weapons fall outside of these restrictions as per (vi).

What does 400(16)a say?

I'm not being disingenuous, I'm just not going to look it up.

 

[CaseHardened]

Supreme Court SAVE US !!!

 

[SuffolkArms]

What does 400(16)a say?

I'm not being disingenuous, I'm just not going to look it up.

I quoted it above but it's:

16-a. Registration. (a) An owner of a weapon defined in paragraph (e)
or (f) of subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this chapter,
possessed before the date of the effective date of the chapter of the
laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph, must make an
application to register such weapon with the superintendent of state
police, in the manner provided by the superintendent, or by amending a
license issued pursuant to this section within one year of the effective
date of this subdivision except any weapon defined under subparagraph
(vi) of paragraph (g) of subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of
this chapter transferred into the state may be registered at any time,
provided such weapons are registered within thirty days of their
transfer into the state.

Emphasized relevant part to importing banned C&Rs.

 

[SuffolkArms]

I was looking at that route with both a FAL as well as the older colt. By the description in the safe act they would registered as C&Rs you can still register a C&R as well. For me, it was cost. The most recent colt (1964 SP1) I came across this week has an asking price of $3400. The FALs are higher than that.

Ya the cost sucks but it seems Colt SP1s are inching closer to under the $2k mark. My holdup is finding an FFL, the ones I've called downstate seem to think C&R AR-15s would still need to be featureless or fixed.. clearly the law does not say that.

 

[Calculon]

If you have a C&R couldn't you just purchase directly?

 

[Gonzobird]

The local BATF guy in Syracuse told me in a conversation about renewing my c&R that a C&R is pretty much useless in this State.

I didn't bother after that.

 

[SuffolkArms]

If you have a C&R couldn't you just purchase directly?

I don't have a C&R but was looking into it for these purchases, although...

The local BATF guy in Syracuse told me in a conversation about renewing my c&R that a C&R is pretty much useless in this State.

I didn't bother after that.

That's the conclusion of my research from looking at various threads, since the law only exempts importers and dealers from background checks on each purchase and has no exemption for "collectors" you'd still have to get a background check at a dealer with a C&R when purchasing within the state. It appears that people are still using their C&R's directly though and I'm sure out-of-state purchases would still be good-to-go. I wouldn't want to register an assault weapon purchased on a C&R FFL out-of-state or within state without a background check, but it might just be cause I'm not familiar with the process as I'm not a C&R license holder.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I've heard of C&R assault weapons being registered as late as last summer, my question was mainly if anybody had heard of post 1963 C&R weapons that had been through this process. It seems the open question is what "current date" means in this exception to the assault weapon definition of PL 265:



It appears some believe it to mean 2013, while it could conceivably mean 2019.

PL 400 appears to allow registering assault weapons exempted by (vi) at any time, as long as the registration happens within 30 days of the assault weapon being transferred into the state:

From what I've seen, legislation is much more specific when defining static dates. Either they call them out specifically or the say things like '90th day after it shall have become a law.' On top of that, C&R eligibility is rolling from a federal perspective.

 

[Gonzobird]

FFLs are very specific as well. Both an 01 and 03 say that they is not valid for "possession". 03s are for "Collecting Purposes". A DA can take that and try to nail someone with it when they are tooling around with something on the way to the range especially if you don't keep you A and D book up to date.

 

[SuffolkArms]

From what I've seen, legislation is much more specific when defining static dates. Either they call them out specifically or the say things like '90th day after it shall have become a law.' On top of that, C&R eligibility is rolling from a federal perspective.

Yes that's what it seems like to me too. From the formerly quoted excerpt from PL 400...

Each application for a license pursuant to paragraph (a) of this
subdivision shall include, on a separate written form prepared by the
division of state police within thirty days of the effective date of the
chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen, which amended this
section, and provided to the applicant at the same time and in the same
manner as the application for a license, an opportunity for the
applicant to request an exception from his or her application
information becoming public record pursuant to paragraph (a) of this
subdivision.

If the legislature wanted to ban C&R assault weapons created 50 years before the SAFE Act passed they should have used similar language.

 

[Twogunwilly]

Yes that's what it seems like to me too. From the formerly quoted excerpt from PL 400...



If the legislature wanted to ban C&R assault weapons created 50 years before the SAFE Act passed they should have used similar language.

They never saw a gun they didn't want to ban, yours will be called a loop hole as soon as one of the assholes thinks it up , this is FUAC land and we are unwanted trespassers. I know what I would do to protect it while biding my time waiting for SCOTUS to fire the golden bullet.

 

[Calculon]

The local BATF guy in Syracuse told me in a conversation about renewing my c&R that a C&R is pretty much useless in this State.

I didn't bother after that.

Depends on what your interest is. If pistols we’re out of luck as have to go through FFL. If you have interest in milsurp rifles like Mosin Nagants, SKS, K31s etc well worth it. Buy online and ship to your door.

 

[soylentBlue]

What about "a pistol or revolver that uses fixed cartridges that are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade - NY Penal Law § 265.00(14)" like an antique French Mle 1873 Revolver that is chambered in 11mm French Ordnance round. Can that be bought with a C&R?

 

[Calculon]

NY requires all handguns to go through FFL.

 

[Edwardteach72]

What about "a pistol or revolver that uses fixed cartridges that are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade - NY Penal Law § 265.00(14)" like an antique French Mle 1873 Revolver that is chambered in 11mm French Ordnance round. Can that be bought with a C&R?

You can buy any handgun that is over 50 years old with a C&R but like mentioned before here in NY it has to go to an FFL and registered on a permit.

For rifles and shotguns it's right to your front door

 

[SuffolkArms]

I spoke to a few FFLs by me and they seemed to think that the exception only pertains to M1 Carbines and not AR-15s.. one even told me to call the NYSP hotline, well, I did.

I called the NYSP SAFE Act hotline yesterday they confirmed that all assault weapons manufactured prior to 50 years ago can still be transferred, they just have to be registered once transferred. I specifically asked about a 1967 M1 Carbine and 1967 Colt SP1 and they said it was good to go. I called today again to directly ask if old AR-15s can be transferred in case they misunderstood what an SP1 was. The guy said yes as long as all the parts are original and 50 years old. He also said that once purchased you can't swap out parts.

I then asked about C&R licenses and they told me that C&Rs are pretty much useless in New York State since every transfer needs a NICS check.

Now to debate if I want to spend the coin and tell an FFL to cAlL tHe nYsP hOtLiNe for clarification. Honestly what with not being able to swap out parts it doesn't seem worth it to me. But I am eyeing good deals as they come up as I'd like to own a retro style AR-15.

 

[BDinPutnam]

If you want a retro AR- build one (fixed mag). Parts are readily available and it will be cheaper than doing the C&R thing.

Just my two cents.

 

[MilesTeg]

If you want a retro AR- build one (fixed mag). Parts are readily available and it will be cheaper than doing the C&R thing.

Just my two cents.

The benefit is if its 50 years old you can then swap out to a modern configuration. I was wondering about this work around when SAFE first hit but never looked farther. The crappy part is it will be registered.

 

[BDinPutnam]

The benefit is if its 50 years old you can then swap out to a modern configuration. I was wondering about this work around when SAFE first hit but never looked farther. The crappy part is it will be registered.

Apparently not though if the post above is believed- you can't swap parts (which I find a little far fetched but given this was from the hotline I have little doubt it was actually told to the OP).

 

[SuffolkArms]

The benefit is if its 50 years old you can then swap out to a modern configuration. I was wondering about this work around when SAFE first hit but never looked farther. The crappy part is it will be registered.

The New York State Police's position is that the rifle must remain in its original configuration with all 50 year old parts. I called FFLs after speaking to the NYSP and they told me they'd have to have Colt verify that all the parts were at least 50 years old. That seems to be the hard part. Colt does have a serial # lookup for the receiver, but who knows what happened to the rifle over the past 50 years.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I'm also not sure I follow how it is you have to transfer and THEN register it. Would someone else be in possession of it while waiting for the registration?

I still say build one. Check out Brownells and JSE Surplus. There's also a company out there (name escapes me at the moment) that specializes in period and model-correct components.