Suffolk County sued over Unrestricted permit denial!!!

[VietnamEraVet]

Check out this excellent article posted over at Ammoland on 4/3/17 by David Codrea.

Be sure to take the time to read the lawsuit details. It is enough to make your blood boil. Hopefully, the plaintiff takes it all the way, because although I'm not a lawyer (and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night...), it strikes me that it has the potential to invalidate some of the regulatory bullshit we suffer here in NYS.

What is amazing to read, is how utterly corrupt those fuckers are. In part, because if there was ever a plaintiff who could show that he meets the "need", this guy can.

Wow,- just wow!

New York 'May Issue' Arrogance Forces Gang Target to Sue

 

[spat]

Check out this excellent article posted over at Ammoland on 4/3/17 by David Codrea.

Be sure to take the time to read the lawsuit details. It is enough to make your blood boil. Hopefully, the plaintiff takes it all the way, because although I'm not a lawyer (and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night...), it strikes me that it has the potential to invalidate some of the regulatory bullshit we suffer here in NYS.

What is amazing to read, is how utterly corrupt those fuckers are. In part, because if there was ever a plaintiff who could show the need the "need", this guy can.

Wow,- just wow!

New York 'May Issue' Arrogance Forces Gang Target to Sue

NYS will cave and give him his permit before he can appeal it to a court that might rule against them, thereby denying him "standing" to sue and eliminating the possibility of appeal.

Hopefully when that happens he will sue for reimbursement of his legal costs and take *that* as far as necessary.

NYS old scam, they know they law can't stand, but they can make it very expensive for you to force them to hand over the permit.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

NYS will cave and give him his permit before he can appeal it to a court that might rule against them, thereby denying him "standing" to sue and eliminating the possibility of appeal.

Hopefully when that happens he will sue for reimbursement of his legal costs and take *that* as far as necessary.

NYS old scam, they know they law can't stand, but they can make it very expensive for you to force them to hand over the permit.

I'm thinking that he may have them by the short hairs, particularly when you consider that he is accusing them with regard to all of the other permits that have either been granted restricted or otherwise denied by the actions of the subordinates.

Seems like IF they tried to simply grant his before he gets standing, that they would have to likewise grant a bunch of others as well. Maybe it would be too much for them to do?

 

[spat]

I'm thinking that he may have them by the short hairs, particularly when you consider that he is accusing them with regard to all of the other permits that have either been granted restricted or otherwise denied by the actions of the subordinates.

Seems like IF they tried to simply grant his before he gets standing, that they would have to likewise grant a bunch of others as well. Maybe it would be too much for them to do?

Nope, they'll deny his and make him spend beaucoup $$ to appeal it, the local judges are bound by higher courts that have upheld the "may issue" premise already, even if they do recognize weapons quality BS when they see it.

Then they grant his and his alone right before he gets to a court that might rule against him using their "descretionary power" to change their mind on a whim. If called on it they can make up any BS they care to about costing too much to fight him, or whatever they want.

The next guy has to start at 0, the fact that they approved this guy eventu6allh means nothing unless a court ordered them to do it. They just drag their feet and that stops most people, then right before a court decision that might put an end to their shenanigans they just drop it.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Nope, they'll deny his and make him spend beaucoup $$ to appeal it, the local judges are bound by higher courts that have upheld the "may issue" premise already, even if they do recognize weapons quality BS when they see it.

Then they grant his and his alone right before he gets to a court that might rule against him using their "descretionary power" to change their mind on a whim. If called on it they can make up any BS they care to about costing too much to fight him, or whatever they want.

The next guy has to start at 0, the fact that they approved this guy eventu6allh means nothing unless a court ordered them to do it. They just drag their feet and that stops most people, then right before a court decision that might put an end to their shenanigans they just drop it.

There has to be some way to nail their asses to the barn door. FUAC!

 

[spat]

There has to be some way to nail their asses to the barn door. FUAC!

Best would be a class action suit or something like that, with a neverending string of plaintiff's. Or someone who doesn't sue because they were denied a permit, but sues because the "may issue" policy itself violates their rights.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Best would be a class action suit or something like that, with a neverending string of plaintiff's. Or someone who doesn't sue because they were denied a permit, but sues because the "may issue" policy itself violates their rights.

It seems to me that his lawsuit goes in that direction as he argues that their may issue standard is basically impossible to meet, and he also argues that he demands redress for himself and all other potential plaintiffs similarly impacted.

 

[Deplorable Me]

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- A New York man who was targeted for death by the leader of an outlaw motorcycle club has filed suit against Suffolk County, its police commissioner and three officers for denying his application to carry a concealed firearm, Courthouse News Service reports. Sean McCarthy had been beaten and stabbed “at least seven times” by Pagans gang members “in the late 1990s,” when, as a nightclub manager, he’d refused to be extorted. The group’s leader admitted in court during his guilty plea that he’d ordered McCarthy’s murder.

Noting many of the members have served their time and have been released from prison, McCarthy applied for a concealed carry permit, which is “may issue” in New York. In this case, officials chose “may not.” And they did so in the most arrogant manner imaginable: by not checking with law enforcement officials who could corroborate the death threats; by not checking relevant records; in the case of the Police Commissioner Timothy Sini by not even reading the application; and by arbitrarily ruling McCarthy “had failed to establish ‘proper cause’”!

“McCarthy accuses the defendants of ‘delaying indefinitely plaintiff’s application for licensure, by knowingly, intentionally and maliciously failing to perform a thorough, complete and accurate background check and verification of plaintiff’s stated reasons for needing an unrestricted carry license.’”

Life as a subject in the two tier-double standard law system of New York has us at the mercy of the anointed petty functionaries who abuse us with discretionary power at the point of a loaded pen.

To all the libtard progressive lurkers out there: KISS MY ASS.

 

[Deplorable Me]

USA – -(Ammoland.com)- A New York man who was targeted for death by the leader of an outlaw motorcycle club has filed suit against Suffolk County, its police commissioner and three officers for denying his application to carry a concealed firearm, Courthouse News Service reports. Sean McCarthy had been beaten and stabbed “at least seven times” by Pagans gang members “in the late 1990s,” when, as a nightclub manager, he’d refused to be extorted. The group’s leader admitted in court during his guilty plea that he’d ordered McCarthy’s murder.

Noting many of the members have served their time and have been released from prison, McCarthy applied for a concealed carry permit, which is “may issue” in New York. In this case, officials chose “may not.” And they did so in the most arrogant manner imaginable: by not checking with law enforcement officials who could corroborate the death threats; by not checking relevant records; in the case of the Police Commissioner Timothy Sini by not even reading the application; and by arbitrarily ruling McCarthy “had failed to establish ‘proper cause’”!

“McCarthy accuses the defendants of ‘delaying indefinitely plaintiff’s application for licensure, by knowingly, intentionally and maliciously failing to perform a thorough, complete and accurate background check and verification of plaintiff’s stated reasons for needing an unrestricted carry license.’”

Life as a subject in the two tier-double standard law system of New York has us at the mercy of the anointed petty functionaries who abuse us with discretionary power at the point of a loaded pen.

To all the libtard progressive lurkers out there: KISS MY ASS.

SERIOUSLY!

 

[Robin]

The state has violated his inherent civil rights in the denial of second amendment rights and again in due process. This is one every organization should get behind. NRA, SCOPE, and the rest, where are you, what the hell do we pay you for!?!
Robin

 

[Deplorable Me]

The state has violated his inherent civil rights in the denial of second amendment rights and again in due process. This is one every organization should get behind. NRA, SCOPE, and the rest, where are you, what the hell do we pay you for!?!
Robin

NYSRPA has dried up as well. Suffolk is right in their back yard.

 

[hoodfu]

NYSRPA has dried up as well. Suffolk is right in their back yard.

With appellate courts in NY and California already deciding the we have zero right to carry concealed weapons, even after murder attempts and death threats, I can't see this going anywhere.

 

[Phazer]

Good luck.

How is this any different than: Kachalsky v. Cacace - Wikipedia where NY was found to be lawful in their "may issue" practices with "good cause" requirements.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Maybe some others on this forum can comment further, but as I read this complaint, it strikes me that he is attacking them on much more than just denial of an Unrestricted permit due to them saying he does not meet the "need" requirements, - which was the argument made in Kachalsky as I understand that case. If it was strictly a case of justifiable need, I could see them stopping him.

But he is arguing that they are flat out engaging in unlawful behavior by their actions that include having subordinates who have no legal authority whatsoever to make the decisions they did regarding permits. He is arguing that they have violated his rights and those of countless other potential plaintiffs. If the court rules that their actions were in fact illegal, I don't think they can simply go back and hand out a bunch of Unrestricted permits to every potential plaintiff that the lawsuit would affect. I think it opens a huge can of problems for NYS, and Suffolk County in particular. Hopefully, it allows him (and others?) to take the lawsuit to trial, and maybe, just maybe, we will all benefit from it.

Of course, I could be way off base, and NYS will simply ignore the law as they seem to do with regularity...

While I guess you could figure that the NY courts will likely try to stop his lawsuit by awarding him a permit before it goes to trial, I'm thinking they may run into a problem over all of the unlawful behavior by the subordinates as he has laid out in the complaint. I'm thinking that those claims may keep it going, and who knows the final outcome?

 

[Robin]

Exactly! They set up a legal process and denied him that process, a civil rights issue along with the obvious second amendment violations of his rights. These are Federal issues!
Robin

 

[hoodfu]

He has no right to conceal carry. None whatsoever. It's been through the courts already. They said that he didn't meet their completely made up and arbitrary requirements for getting an unrestricted license. Seriously there's nothing you can do about it when the court says you have no right to it. You're completely at their mercy.

 

[speedkills27]

He has no right to conceal carry. None whatsoever. It's been through the courts already. They said that he didn't meet their completely made up and arbitrary requirements for getting an unrestricted license. Seriously there's nothing you can do about it when the court says you have no right to it. You're completely at their mercy.

false
we are free men/ladies whose natural rights are protected by the constitution. If there was ever a time for this man to practice civil disobedience it would be now. I still advocate going through the proper legal channels but if he truly is in fear for his life, fuck the courts. Better to be judged then carried

 

[hoodfu]

false
we are free men/ladies whose natural rights are protected by the constitution. If there was ever a time for this man to practice civil disobedience it would be now. I still advocate going through the proper legal channels but if he truly is in fear for his life, fuck the courts. Better to be judged then carried

Anyone here can live their life the way they want up until the point of being arrested and that's certainly your choice. You say 'fuck the courts', but this is a lawsuit. It hinges entirely on what the courts think of such things, which in this case says you don't have the right to carry concealed. It's a privilege.

 

[speedkills27]

Anyone here can live their life the way they want up until the point of being arrested and that's certainly your choice. You say 'fuck the courts', but this is a lawsuit. It hinges entirely on what the courts think of such things, which in this case says you don't have the right to carry concealed. It's a privilege.

I only say "fuck the courts" after all reasonable measures have been perused. Its easy for me to be so cavalier because I didnt have to struggle like this man has, but if I put myself in this mans situation I would value my family and I's safety greater than the risk of imprisonment. I would not wanna live with myself if something happened to my family and there was something I could have done to help keep them safe but didnt. Whats written on paper is sometimes at odds with natural law.

 

[spat]

With appellate courts in NY and California already deciding the we have zero right to carry concealed weapons, even after murder attempts and death threats, I can't see this going anywhere.

Except in NY this guy is being denied the right to even keep one locked in a safe at home.

The only way to reconcile that with Heller, is to just ignore Heller completely. I have every confidence that is what NY courts will do.

 

[spat]

I only say "fuck the courts" after all reasonable measures have been perused. Its easy for me to be so cavalier because I didnt have to struggle like this man has, but if I put myself in this mans situation I would value my family and I's safety greater than the risk of imprisonment. I would not wanna live with myself if something happened to my family and there was something I could have done to help keep them safe but didnt. Whats written on paper is sometimes at odds with natural law.

Maybe he is, and this is entirely a fight so that he can avoid prison if he ever has to use it.

 

[4excal]

I read then scrolled forever and ever and then exited out

 

[spat]

Anyone here can live their life the way they want up until the point of being arrested and that's certainly your choice. You say 'fuck the courts', but this is a lawsuit. It hinges entirely on what the courts think of such things, which in this case says you don't have the right to carry concealed. It's a privilege.

A mugger has the power to take your wallet too, doesn't mean he's right.

 

[spat]

Maybe some others on this forum can comment further, but as I read this complaint, it strikes me that he is attacking them on much more than just denial of an Unrestricted permit due to them saying he does not meet the "need" requirements, - which was the argument made in Kachalsky as I understand that case. If it was strictly a case of justifiable need, I could see them stopping him.

But he is arguing that they are flat out engaging in unlawful behavior by their actions that include having subordinates who have no legal authority whatsoever to make the decisions they did regarding permits. He is arguing that they have violated his rights and those of countless other potential plaintiffs. If the court rules that their actions were in fact illegal, I don't think they can simply go back and hand out a bunch of Unrestricted permits to every potential plaintiff that the lawsuit would affect. I think it opens a huge can of problems for NYS, and Suffolk County in particular. Hopefully, it allows him (and others?) to take the lawsuit to trial, and maybe, just maybe, we will all benefit from it.

Of course, I could be way off base, and NYS will simply ignore the law as they seem to do with regularity...

While I guess you could figure that the NY courts will likely try to stop his lawsuit by awarding him a permit before it goes to trial, I'm thinking they may run into a problem over all of the unlawful behavior by the subordinates as he has laid out in the complaint. I'm thinking that those claims may keep it going, and who knows the final outcome?

Who will push those claims once he has a permit ? I certainly hope he continues but most do not, and that is the way they have managed to perpetuate this illegal system.

 

[Cooolone]

I would just carry and if ever arrested the basis for dismissal is already on the books with plenty of paperwork... The denial... So what then? It would give him standing as he chose to exercise his 2A Right to defense, attempted the proper and lawful channels which were arbitrarily denied.