Supreme Court Will Decide Whether Police Can Enter A Home To Seize Guns Without A Warrant

Cooolone

Cooolone

.338 Win Mag
Messages
6,042
Reaction score
9,247
Location
NY, USA
Guess the fruit from the poisoned tree doesn't matter anymore...

the police untruthfully told her that her husband had consented to the seizure of any guns
Click to expand...

And the 1st Circuit COA let it stand? Really?... I don't even agree with another person consenting to a search of property belonging to me. Both party consent should be required and if unobtainable, then no bueno! Why don't the just ask someone walking down the street if it's ok to search the home... Same difference!
 
T

Truebeliever

6.5 Creedmoor
Messages
2,490
Reaction score
1,622
Location
Nys
In this case, it’s someone who was taken by ambulance for psych reasons ( voluntary or not). The description of the fact pattern is that they lied saying to the wife who told the about the guns, that the police had obtained permission to retrieve the guns.
I am curious how that was determined. Did the police say they tricked the wife or is it just based on the description of what happened by the plaintiff . But the article is misleading in the fact pattern.

This is from the legal papers:

“The plaintiff claims that he only agreed to be transported because the officers told him that his firearms would not be confiscated if he assented to go to the hospital for an evaluation. But the record contains no evidence from any of the four officers who were present at the residence suggesting that such a promise was made”.

And

“Accompanied by Kim, one or more of the officers entered the house and garage, seizing the two firearms, magazines for both guns, and ammunition. Kim directed the officers to each of the items seized. The parties dispute both whether Kim indicated that she wanted the guns removed and whether the officers secured her cooperation by telling her that her husband had consented to confiscation of the firearms. There is no dispute, though, that the officers understood that the firearms belonged to the plaintiff and that he objected to their seizure.”

The court presumes for a matter of law that the wife did not consent, it does not necessarily make it true:

“Given the factual disputes surrounding the representations made to the plaintiff's wife, we think it prudent to assume that the officers' entry into the home was not only warrantless but also nonconsensual.”

Also
The Scope of the Community Caretaking Doctrine. The defendants seek to wrap both of the contested seizures in the community caretaking exception to the warrant requirement. Notably, they do not invoke either the exigent circumstances or emergency aid exceptions to the warrant requirement. Nor do the defendants contend that their seizures of the plaintiff and his firearms were carried out pursuant to a state civil protection statute”

The argument in this case isn’t what is being presented in the article .

Its less about the 2nd than the police “ caretaker” role:

“On appeal, though, the plaintiff does not appear to assert that the City is liable for an underlying Second Amendment violation. While he summarily adverts to the City's "unwritten practice of seizing firearms for safekeeping" in portions of his brief concerned with the alleged Fourth Amendment violations, he never connects these cursory allusions to municipal liability with his claim of an underlying Second Amendment violation”
 
I

IrishMick

.44 mag
Messages
771
Reaction score
1,690
Location
Oswego County
I'm more concerned that the police are constantly looking in windows looking for assaults and heart attacks. LEO is nothing but a bunch of fucking peeping toms!
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

.950 JDJ
Messages
33,380
Reaction score
37,610
Location
Western NY
So police are baaad but now they need wiggle room to take guns away.
It is certainly true that the police need a good deal of discretion in carrying out their varied, complex, and sometimes dangerous duties. But they are also powerful agents of the government and their power is supposed to be restrained by the Bill of Rights. The 4th Amendment is supposed to protect the home above all other places. And whatever one’s views on gun control may be, the Supreme Court has clearly held that the right to keep handguns in the home is at the core of the 2nd Amendment.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

.950 JDJ
Messages
33,380
Reaction score
37,610
Location
Western NY
GOPerfect said:
If people actually think this is not already occurring all around the US of A, they had better start reading more news stories.


1984!
Click to expand...
GOPerfect said:
If people actually think this is not already occurring all around the US of A, they had better start reading more news stories.


1984!
Click to expand...
This right here is 100% true.
My dad and brother are both cops and they were complaining because a guy sued to get his guns back. Since I’m a gun guy I paid attention. Essentially what a judge in niagara county said is you can take a gun on any domestic related call regardless of crime committed or an arrest. Yes you read that right. 100% right it’s this bad and this scary.
So essentially I can say fuck you bitch, slam the door and walk away. My Bernie Sanders sign. I ehh it could not like that I called my wife a bitch and she could call the police. Everyone me, my wife, my neighbor, my kids could all say the same thing I called her a bitch, told her to fuck off, and left the property. No crime, no arrest and they could take all my guns. I would then have to go to the Supreme Court of NYS to petition to get my guns back. This guy did so but it was two years later. The evidence room is a mess and my brother had to search for hours to get his gun back and was bitching about it. They are supposed to destroy them after a certain time frame and this was beyond this.
I told them they were both fucked up and this is completely unconstitutional because you can’t take a right away with out a crime being committed. I guess we will find out now.
 
Mr. terzmo

Mr. terzmo

.308 Win
Messages
3,151
Reaction score
3,186
Location
Pendleton NY
" As long as an officer might reasonably think that a warrantless search will alleviate a danger to the community, the search is considered constitutional. "
REASONABLE THOUGHT !!! Holy Moly.....that's a wide open field in todays climate. We're headed fpr a nazi type state if this "warrantless search" is upheld. How's this for a minor exaple....an off duty,no uniform cop overhears two people speaking about guns and they say they have loaded guns stashed all over their home. Mr. Policeman suits up..gets a few co-workers and enters a home...finds unsecured guns and that person is charged. Only one example We could be headed to.
 
TEOTWAWKI inc.

TEOTWAWKI inc.

.338 Win Mag
Messages
6,579
Reaction score
13,335
Location
Tennessee, U.S.A.
The court case should replace "guns" with "anything". It sounds a lot more like a 4th amendment case that way. 2A has nothing to do with it, and shouldn't even be mentioned. Making it about guns will not end favorably for gun owners. Is everything else safe from warrantless search and seizure? C'mon Man.

/supreme-court-will-decide-whether-police-can-enter-a-home-to-seize-ANYTHING-without-a-warrant/?fbclid=IwAR03KF0jc_X_51nvCL2bhRDFIZAsq0FB8Hh6FJeKPTbAH_vlQwJY4H2OCuA&sh=677efd2a5bb4
 
Mr. terzmo

Mr. terzmo

.308 Win
Messages
3,151
Reaction score
3,186
Location
Pendleton NY
Saltwater60 said:
This right here is 100% true.
My dad and brother are both cops and they were complaining because a guy sued to get his guns back. Since I’m a gun guy I paid attention. Essentially what a judge in niagara county said is you can take a gun on any domestic related call regardless of crime committed or an arrest. Yes you read that right. 100% right it’s this bad and this scary.
So essentially I can say fuck you bitch, slam the door and walk away. My Bernie Sanders sign. I ehh it could not like that I called my wife a bitch and she could call the police. Everyone me, my wife, my neighbor, my kids could all say the same thing I called her a bitch, told her to fuck off, and left the property. No crime, no arrest and they could take all my guns. I would then have to go to the Supreme Court of NYS to petition to get my guns back. This guy did so but it was two years later. The evidence room is a mess and my brother had to search for hours to get his gun back and was bitching about it. They are supposed to destroy them after a certain time frame and this was beyond this.
I told them they were both fucked up and this is completely unconstitutional because you can’t take a right away with out a crime being committed. I guess we will find out now.
Click to expand...

If one argues...threatens..whatever..their significant other and they are a female....that person is a loser in any type of defense. Just the way it is.
 
spat

spat

.700 Nitro Express
Messages
27,824
Reaction score
58,378
Location
Formerly Geneseo, NY. Now free in AZ
Saltwater60 said:
This right here is 100% true.
My dad and brother are both cops and they were complaining because a guy sued to get his guns back. Since I’m a gun guy I paid attention. Essentially what a judge in niagara county said is you can take a gun on any domestic related call regardless of crime committed or an arrest. Yes you read that right. 100% right it’s this bad and this scary.
So essentially I can say fuck you bitch, slam the door and walk away. My Bernie Sanders sign. I ehh it could not like that I called my wife a bitch and she could call the police. Everyone me, my wife, my neighbor, my kids could all say the same thing I called her a bitch, told her to fuck off, and left the property. No crime, no arrest and they could take all my guns. I would then have to go to the Supreme Court of NYS to petition to get my guns back. This guy did so but it was two years later. The evidence room is a mess and my brother had to search for hours to get his gun back and was bitching about it. They are supposed to destroy them after a certain time frame and this was beyond this.
I told them they were both fucked up and this is completely unconstitutional because you can’t take a right away with out a crime being committed. I guess we will find out now.
Click to expand...
Even worse.

Your Biden loving neighbor could call and *say* he heard a commotion.

Cops show up and you and your wife both say "yea, that was on the TV".

But, because it's a domestic *call* they could then seize all your guns.

Just wait until the lefties figure it out. It will become "policy" that they do this on any "domestic" call.

They're working on purging the police departments of all the good officers who refuse to follow such a policy. How many quit over the summer ?

The police won't be abolished or defunded, just completely replaced.
 
ProgSpear

ProgSpear

.338 Win Mag
Messages
5,716
Reaction score
8,400
Location
Geometric center of a hostile state.
Robin said:
It was never intended for the Supreme court to be the ultimate decision making body in determining what is constitutional. We the People are the ultimate arbiter's of that document.
Robin
Click to expand...
Sadly, .GOV and all the straphangers have decided that document no longer applies. Thus a wall surrounding the capital in the District of Corruption.
 
M

Modean

.223 Rem
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
2,713
Location
Oswego County
Mosinitis

Mosinitis

.338 Win Mag
Messages
8,069
Reaction score
7,413
Location
NY state
Domestic disputes are the #1 reason people lose their guns. Unlike noncompliance with SAFE act this should be a real concern for gun owners. Avoid escalating disputes with family members and neighbors. If police is called to the scene you are fucked.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

.950 JDJ
Messages
33,380
Reaction score
37,610
Location
Western NY
Mr. terzmo said:
If one argues...threatens..whatever..their significant other and they are a female....that person is a loser in any type of defense. Just the way it is.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t mean a right can be taken away without a crime being committed. So saying some one is a fucking bitch is enough to remove a right now? Could you imagine if they were doing this with voting rights for minorities? Holy moly.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

.950 JDJ
Messages
33,380
Reaction score
37,610
Location
Western NY
spat said:
Even worse.

Your Biden loving neighbor could call and *say* he heard a commotion.

Cops show up and you and your wife both say "yea, that was on the TV".

But, because it's a domestic *call* they could then seize all your guns.

Just wait until the lefties figure it out. It will become "policy" that they do this on any "domestic" call.

They're working on purging the police departments of all the good officers who refuse to follow such a policy. How many quit over the summer ?

The police won't be abolished or defunded, just completely replaced.
Click to expand...
I just spoke to a few troopers about this actually. They agreed. They all said fuck it. I’m just here for the pay check now. I feel bad the one guy seemed so demoralized it was sad actually. Nice guys and had good heads on their shoulders. One guy said he will never vote again because there is no point with what happened to Trump
 
GOPerfect

GOPerfect

.950 JDJ
U.S. Military
Messages
30,610
Reaction score
69,635
Location
No longer Secret, thanks DR. Evil
Saltwater60 said:
I just spoke to a few troopers about this actually. They agreed. They all said fuck it. I’m just here for the pay check now. I feel bad the one guy seemed so demoralized it was sad actually. Nice guys and had good heads on their shoulders. One guy said he will never vote again because there is no point with what happened to Trump
Click to expand...


I am a paycheck and medical benefits kind of guy. Everything I do now is for down the road.

I live a good life, but as of now, this is only a job. I will do all that is needed; nothing more and nothing less.
 
H

holdover

.475 A&M Magnum
Messages
16,157
Reaction score
23,692
Location
occupied NY
Saltwater60 said:
I just spoke to a few troopers about this actually. They agreed. They all said fuck it. I’m just here for the pay check now. I feel bad the one guy seemed so demoralized it was sad actually. Nice guys and had good heads on their shoulders. One guy said he will never vote again because there is no point with what happened to Trump
Click to expand...


Thats one good thing, some cops are bad searchers.


This warrent less searches of homes will end very badly if people are hurt. At that point in the game they are in complete conflict with the 2nd A the 4th A. They are lawless. We have to follow the law and they dont. And the law is whatever they interpret it to be. They have fucked this country up beyond all recognition.
 
R

Rocpo

.44 mag
Messages
813
Reaction score
1,809
Location
Column 5
@Saltwater60
It's not the Judge in Niagara that decided this. The CPL 140.10 was amended effective 11/1/20 regarding seizing weapons at a domestic.

Subsection 6 was added allowing or in some instances requiring removal of weapons.

Specifically authorized "May remove" if a PO responds to a report for a domestic offense AND such weapon is in plain sight or discovered pursuant to a consensual or other lawful search.

Authorized "must be removed" when they are in possession of a person arrested for a family offense. And in the removal, PO is supposed to remove and voucher the license to carry as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top