The 2A, the Framer's intent and SCOTUS rulings discussion.

[ArmedCorgi]

Here you go @Willjr75 , @nortatoga and everyone else who is interested in this discussion... This thread is for the purpose of arguing the amendment, what it means to you, what the Framers intended and how the Supreme Court has ruled and what those rulings mean for the 2A.

 

[SomeSoldier]

The joke of a court gets it wrong every time. The framers intended us to armed similar to the Gov. /Thread.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

My only way to see it.....

 

[Marine Cpl]

I’ll repeat this statement I wrote in the other thread.

It’s absolutely ludicrous for people or any corrupt court to argue that the Founding Father’s intentions were for the Bill of Rights to only pertain to people who are only subjected to the federal government because that live in Washington DC while any other citizen in any other state can have their 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment rights, right to a speedy trial, right to have reasonable bail, right to be judged by their peers, right to have a soldier commandeer their home, ect by a state infringing on them. Absolutely ludicrous. That’s why Article 6 was created.

 

[Toecutter]

The 2nd amendment is irrelevant . the constitution gives congress no power to pass law on what we own, what we ingest or who we marry .We have to stop thinking the second ammendment grants us anything.
The few things congress does have power to pass laws on are completely out of control.

 

[Marine Cpl]

George Washington to the governors of NY and Rhode Island. “We are being attacked by the British on our Northeastern front. Activate your State Militias and prepare to repel this attack!”

Governors. “Sorry pal. You are on your own. We do not allow our citizens to own guns.” Especially dangerous and unusual military grade firearms.”

 

[dsdmmat]

The right to bear arms predated the constitution and it will out last the constitution.

 

[nortatoga]

I’ll repeat this statement I wrote in the other thread.

It’s absolutely ludicrous for people or any corrupt court to argue that the Founding Father’s intentions were for the Bill of Rights to only pertain to people who are only subjected to the federal government because that live in Washington DC while any other citizen in any other state can have their 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment rights, right to a speedy trial, right to have reasonable bail, right to be judged by their peers, right to have a soldier commandeer their home, ect by a state infringing on them. Absolutely ludicrous. That’s why Article 6 was created.

I really don't know whether to laugh or cry at this post! ( glad you re-posted it from the other thread!!) Just where do you get your information Willjr?

As I have said many times before you have a real problem with reading comprehension!

 

[Marine Cpl]

I really don't know whether to laugh or cry at this post! ( glad you re-posted it from the other thread!!) Just where do you get your information Willjr?

As I have said many times before you have a real problem with reading comprehension!

In the other thread, you did the same thing. Instead of providing some type of evidence based on fact or logic, you insult with no supporting evidence other than a perverted Supreme Court decision. You weren’t even aware that Article 6 existed until I pointed it out to you or any other Article for that matter. You misinterpreted the 10th Amendment. I had to spell it out word for word for you. You scoured the whole internet to cherry pick an opinion piece that you thought would prove me wrong with a “Ah ha!”and after I read it, I showed you that it reinforced what I was saying.

It’s hard to take you seriously.

 

[nortatoga]

In the other thread, you did the same thing. Instead of providing some type of evidence based on fact or logic, you insult with no supporting evidence other than a perverted Supreme Court decision. You weren’t even aware that Article 6 existed until I pointed it out to you or any other Article for that matter. You misinterpreted the 10th Amendment. I had to spell it out word for word for you. You scoured the whole internet to cherry pick an opinion piece that you thought would prove me wrong with a “Ah ha!”and after I read it, I showed you that it reinforced what I was saying.

It’s hard to take you seriously.

Yes Willy boy Article 6 say's the federal government is the supreme law of the land! And the BOR's say's what those laws can and can not be about!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes Willy boy Article 6 say's the federal government is the supreme law of the land! And the BOR's say's what those laws can and can not be about!

It says this Constitution and the laws of the United States . The Bill of Rights is part of Constitution. It’s funny how you left that out.

 

[Curmudgeon]

The bill of rights was about what the government couldn't do, not what the citizens could.

That being said, all governments corrupt themselves eventually, so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[nortatoga]

It says this Constitution and the laws of the United States . The Bill of Rights is part of Constitution. It’s funny how you left that out.

Exactly and I never left it out!

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

This Constitution, (Which includes the BOR's )

and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof;( all laws of the United States shall be carried out as per the constitution) and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; (Laws only Congress can make that are constitutional)

and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.”

The Bill of Rights was not made by Congress.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Exactly and I never left it out!

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

This Constitution, (Which includes the BOR's )

and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof;( all laws of the United States shall be carried out as per the constitution) and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; (Laws only Congress can make that are constitutional)

and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.”

The Bill of Rights was not made by Congress.

Edit. Just read your last sentence.

So your argument is that since Congress didn’t make THIS CONSTITUTION, the Constitution doesn’t apply? You cannot be serious. Did you forget the word “AND” in between “THIS CONSITITUTION” and “THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES? In pursuance thereof applies only to the laws of the United States passed by Congress. Not for the Constitution itself.

 

[Celt]

The federalist papers are not the easist read, but most can get the gist of them. Article 46 is important to the thinking the founders had pertaining to the 2a. Seriously, shall not be infringed is as simple as it gets and we all know that. But discussions like this are good because we can all learn something and it gives us good intellectual ammo.

Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters

 

[nortatoga]

Right. So what is that you are saying? Be specific.

Okay the BOR's only says what the Federal Government can and can not do! That States did not surrender those rights to the to the Federal Government!!

Will the info is out there you just don't want to believe it!

 

[Celt]

Okay the BOR's only says what the Federal Government can and can not do! That States did not surrender those rights to the to the Federal Government!!

Will the info is out there you just don't want to believe it!

I wasn't following the other thread what is it that you and Will are specifically disagreeing about?

 

[nortatoga]

I wasn't following the other thread what is it that you and Will are specifically disagreeing about?

I should let @Willjr75 explain.

 

[Marine Cpl]

He’s saying that the Bill of Rights in the Constitution don’t apply to the states. Article 6 clearly says otherwise. He’s deliberately leaving out words in Article 6 to further his point that the States can infringe on your rights.

Why he’s arguing this is beyond me.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Here is the full text of Article 6 without any words or commas left out including the original capitalizations.

Article 6
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

 

[nortatoga]

@Willjr75 You don't even realize this is a Trap Thread!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Can you please provide details and facts from the Constitution itself instead of sly nonsense?

 

[nortatoga]

Can you please provide details and facts from the Constitution itself instead of sly nonsense?

Can you provide anything that say's BOR's was applied to the STATES!! WE ARE WAITING!!!!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Did you not read article 6 above? Read it and tell me what you think it means.

 

[nortatoga]

Did you not read article 6 above? Read it and tell me what you think it means.

Did Congress pass the Bill of Rights?

 

[Truebeliever]

God, you guys really don’t know constitutional law or it’s history .

The fourth admendment against search and seizure did not apply to the states until 1961 ( Mapp v Ohio)

Do you think a state in the founding father’s time didn’t do a search without a warrant like in Mapp.

They did as a matter of routine what would be a violation of the constitution today.

The federal government was held to higher standard than the states then. Now it’s the other way around , the state standard is at or higher than the federal.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Can you provide anything that say's BOR's was applied to the STATES!! WE ARE WAITING!!!!!

Here is the full text of Article 6 without any words or commas left out including the original capitalizations.

Article 6
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Seems pretty simple to me.... the BOR is apart of the constitution soooo.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Did Congress pass the Bill of Rights?

Actually, Yes.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bill-of-rights-passes-congress

But none of that matters in your argument because of the comma and the word and which clearly separates this constitution and the laws yada yada.

 

[nortatoga]

Seems pretty simple to me.... the BOR is apart of the constitution soooo.

It only say's what the Federal Government can't do Soooooo!

 

[nortatoga]

Actually, Yes.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bill-of-rights-passes-congress

But none of that matters in your argument because of the comma and the word and which clearly separates this constitution and the laws yada yada.

You are so WRONG! The States approve the BOR'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!