The Most Valuable Items For Barter After The Collapse

[Blimey]

These kinds of threads are amusing, insofar as we look at it from the standpoint of living in a largely urban area with some natural resources (think populations of NYC/Albany/Syracuse/Buffalo/Binghamton vs. how many farms we have). The upshot is that the natives will run over the landscape like locusts; every cow, pig and chicken will be dead within a month or two of a TEOTWAKI. So there will be no basis for a system of trade or barter to flourish, just starvation, cannabilism and tyranny.

Some of us here think we can hold out. You live in a rural area, you have guns, your neighbor has guns. Good luck when a 300 strong criminal gang shows up on your doorstep in some commandeered armored vehicles. (See Forstchen’s One Second After novel for an idea of a “killer caravan”.)

Barter may flourish in northern Idaho, but NY will be a burned out and uninhabitable waste.

Now, if you want to talk about a simple SHTF, that’s a different case. The number one barter item will be Maker’s Mark.

Much of this is true. The city folk would largely finish each other off though before they start to really overrun rural areas, and as they move through the suburbs would be weeded further.

 

[Robin]

They got time to consolidate forces, so do we. Meet us on home turf where we know every hill and dale, gully and creek? Make it so.
Robin

 

[Criticalt]

These kinds of threads are amusing, insofar as we look at it from the standpoint of living in a largely urban area with some natural resources (think populations of NYC/Albany/Syracuse/Buffalo/Binghamton vs. how many farms we have). The upshot is that the natives will run over the landscape like locusts; every cow, pig and chicken will be dead within a month or two of a TEOTWAKI. So there will be no basis for a system of trade or barter to flourish, just starvation, cannabilism and tyranny.

Some of us here think we can hold out. You live in a rural area, you have guns, your neighbor has guns. Good luck when a 300 strong criminal gang shows up on your doorstep in some commandeered armored vehicles. (See Forstchen’s One Second After novel for an idea of a “killer caravan”.)

Barter may flourish in northern Idaho, but NY will be a burned out and uninhabitable waste.

Now, if you want to talk about a simple SHTF, that’s a different case. The number one barter item will be Maker’s Mark.

300 undernourished, paniced city folk?
Not a problem.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of people desperate to survive.
So many people seem to believe guns are the end all tool to fight off invaders.
I could fend off 300 without firing a shot.
People are dumb for the most part and very easy to trick and misdirect.
Also, as seem in similar situations over the centuries, MOST city people will stay put and wait for their all powerful government to save them. Look at Venezuela.....
Ive seen video of droves of people leaving the country. They are starving and ill. They are dragging their belongings down the roads begging any country to take them in.
They are not banding together to overtake farms.
I think you overestimate scared, hungry, cold people with very little survival skills.
My hopes is that groups of 300 come, shoulder to shoulder.

 

[livingston]

These kinds of threads are amusing, insofar as we look at it from the standpoint of living in a largely urban area with some natural resources (think populations of NYC/Albany/Syracuse/Buffalo/Binghamton vs. how many farms we have). The upshot is that the natives will run over the landscape like locusts; every cow, pig and chicken will be dead within a month or two of a TEOTWAKI. So there will be no basis for a system of trade or barter to flourish, just starvation, cannabilism and tyranny.

Some of us here think we can hold out. You live in a rural area, you have guns, your neighbor has guns. Good luck when a 300 strong criminal gang shows up on your doorstep in some commandeered armored vehicles. (See Forstchen’s One Second After novel for an idea of a “killer caravan”.)

Barter may flourish in northern Idaho, but NY will be a burned out and uninhabitable waste.

Now, if you want to talk about a simple SHTF, that’s a different case. The number one barter item will be Maker’s Mark.

All I need is a few weeks to process a fat steer of cow... We have the pressure canners , canning jars .. Fuel for gas stoves and enough fuel to run a few generators for a while. If it is mid January we can hang another and keep it frozen for a while. Having lived here all my life there are enough places to stash food and such that not all would be found . Maybe some but not all . One could have enough hidden at the house so that it would be found .. Let them have it and let them raid another town. ... I just don't see things being so dire .

 

[C3D]

300 undernourished, paniced city folk?
Not a problem.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of people desperate to survive.
So many people seem to believe guns are the end all tool to fight off invaders.
I could fend off 300 without firing a shot.
People are dumb for the most part and very easy to trick and misdirect.
Also, as seem in similar situations over the centuries, MOST city people will stay put and wait for their all powerful government to save them. Look at Venezuela.....
Ive seen video of droves of people leaving the country. They are starving and ill. They are dragging their belongings down the roads begging any country to take them in.
They are not banding together to overtake farms.
I think you overestimate scared, hungry, cold people with very little survival skills.
My hopes is that groups of 300 come, shoulder to shoulder.

That's unrealistic. The 300 that show up won't be a group of Upper West Side liberals. They will be straight from the worst areas and be filled with scum and gangbangers that were hardened criminals and murderers before the TEOTWAKI. Good luck fighting them.

Venezuela, by the way, has this system in place already. Venezuela is replete with criminal gangs just like this and is on the cusp of WROL. Outside the facilities guarded by the military, nobody is safe in that country, even if armed. There were 30,000 *reported* murders there just last year.

 

[@thewheels]

Here's another I almost forgot. Mineral oil, which can be found in every transformer found on telephone poles.

Is there a drain plug to change it out?

 

[Criticalt]

That's unrealistic. The 300 that show up won't be a group of Upper West Side liberals. They will be straight from the worst areas and be filled with scum and gangbangers that were hardened criminals and murderers before the TEOTWAKI. Good luck fighting them.

Venezuela, by the way, has this system in place already. Venezuela is replete with criminal gangs just like this and is on the cusp of WROL. Outside the facilities guarded by the military, nobody is safe in that country, even if armed. There were 30,000 *reported* murders there just last year.

Seriously, murderous gangbangers?
Thats the exact type im talking about.
Dumb as a box of rocks and completely unprepared for what they are getting into.
How about 1,000?
Hell fire does not worry about numbers.
The more the merrier
The only people I would worry about would never travel in groups of 300.
Thats a dead giveaway that they have no skills.
I would much prefer 300 city gangbangers over 5 well trained Green Beret.
However, the GB would be too smart to try to overtake an unknown location while there are millions of unsecure locations just waiting to be took.
This is a vast country with millions of acres of open land.
A group of 300 would live maybe a few weeks.
Anyone with an iota of knowledge would not be in such a group.

 

[@thewheels]

Looking at that list, there's some odd items on it. And I'd think some of the stuff would be lower/higher but IMO it seems pretty reasonable.

Also, 90%sh percent of the list could be found at a Lowes/Home Depot. I've always thought a well armed and decent sized group of like minded family, friends and neighbors could hold a Home Depot or the like and barter for whatever else was needed. Fort Depot.
A store's location could be a deal breaker though.

 

[meketrefe]

The people who need meds that badly won't be around long enough to trade with.

What if it is someone very sick who you care about or you need to stay alive yourself?
The questions is how do you ask for extra meds for a contingency or to be prepared for the worse.
This is an area where the government will fail you. It is already failing by not letting people have some meds in reserve.
In other words, playing God with people's lives.

 

[livingston]

An Axe and crosscut saw and the tools to sharpen them would be high on my list also.
I have this book Adirondack French louie ..Lived around Speculator in the late 1800's ... In the book he claimed all he needed to survive in the wild back then was a good hunting knife , An axe and a hand auger that could drill a hole in wood . ... Found that interesting. Things were different in that area back then ... Fish in the lakes could be caught on almost anything..... Large ones at that.

 

[Toecutter]

This chair cup paddleball game is all I need.

 

[96coal449]

Is there a drain plug to change it out?

Nope. Gotta use a can opener.

 

[spat]

What if it is someone very sick who you care about or you need to stay alive yourself?
The questions is how do you ask for extra meds for a contingency or to be prepared for the worse.
This is an area where the government will fail you. It is already failing by not letting people have some meds in reserve.
In other words, playing God with people's lives.

You're absolutely right, but the fact remains that as much as you care about your insulin dependent child or spouse, they are aren't going to make it long in a TEOTWAWKI situation. After they're gone finding someone with some insulin to trade is not going to do you any good.

 

[GOPerfect]

Ok, serious question...it lists silver but not gold. Why does that have better barter value?

Gold is worth too much in a trade situation.

 

[GOPerfect]

As for the silver maybe being useless...

Maybe at first it will be, I believe that once things begin to settle down, the silver will have its place.

As for the ammo, need the onset of the bad days; ammo would be one of the very last things I would trade.

Overall, I think the list is decent.

 

[Deplorable Me]

Democrat voting rules ?? LOL ..

Hershey Candy Bars .. is the fking best to have on hand .. you can trade them for anything ..

Sort of the difference between short term thinkers and long term planners. I'd of immediately sold the silver and bought a jug of Varget.

 

[meketrefe]

Add french onion helluva good dip

 

[Robin]

Wits!
Robin

 

[Curmudgeon]

I have the 4 food groups covered... candy, candy canes, candy corn, syrup.

 

[FrankenCub]

I would never trade away any of my ammo, would trade for more though. Would consider trading pretty much anything else, including handyman services.
I wouldn't much worry about roving gangs from the cities even if they are the worst of the worst. They may know their city streets inside and out but they wont know shit about the back 40, even worse when the sun goes down. By time they ravage the cities everyone else would know about it and every farmer and country boy would not think twice about shooting anyone who got close to their property. It's not like they would have unlimited houses to hide behind like they do in the cities. They would have too cross huge open areas making themselves easy targets. Watching their criminal buddies drop one by one will take the wind out of their sails. Well prepared groups will have defensive posts in the trees with radios and rifles. They would be seen arriving and never know where the shots came from. Their idea of camo would still be Nikes, bling, and hoodies. Even more fun when the weather goes south. Most of us can deer hunt in sub zero temps, they'd stay snuggled up with their dime bags and Fortys in some living room.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I would never trade away any of my ammo, would trade for more though. Would consider trading pretty much anything else, including handyman services.
I wouldn't much worry about roving gangs from the cities even if they are the worst of the worst. They may know their city streets inside and out but they wont know shit about the back 40, even worse when the sun goes down. By time they ravage the cities everyone else would know about it and every farmer and country boy would not think twice about shooting anyone who got close to their property. It's not like they would have unlimited houses to hide behind like they do in the cities. They would have too cross huge open areas making themselves easy targets. Watching their criminal buddies drop one by one will take the wind out of their sails. Well prepared groups will have defensive posts in the trees with radios and rifles. They would be seen arriving and never know where the shots came from. Their idea of camo would still be Nikes, bling, and hoodies. Even more fun when the weather goes south. Most of us can deer hunt in sub zero temps, they'd stay snuggled up with their dime bags and Fortys in some living room.

There's truth to this. Makes sense. It may happen initially but eventually they'd all be killed. When something like this happens, it would be wise to link up with your local volunteer fire department since the police would probably go back to their own towns to keep their family's safe.

The volunteer fireman that actually live in the town can organize patrols and checkpoints and can give you a job. The Mayor may even deputize them.

 

[FrankenCub]

There's truth to this. Makes sense. It may happen initially but eventually they'd all be killed. When something like this happens, it would be wise to link up with your local volunteer fire department since the police would probably go back to their own towns to keep their family's safe.

The volunteer fireman that actually live in the town can organize patrols and checkpoints and can give you a job. The Mayor may even deputize them.

People are also more likely to work with the VFDs than they would police. Back in '93 when we had that blizzard the local FD couldn't get their trucks or ambulance out to most of the roads so they sent a call out to all the snowmobilers to come to the station and assist for emergency calls. They had probably 40 sleds at the station during that storm. Most of the fireman in my area are all farmers and Sheriff deputies anyway lol. You'd also be surprised how many LEOs are supportive of Militia groups, they just don't talk about it

 

[C3D]

I would never trade away any of my ammo, would trade for more though. Would consider trading pretty much anything else, including handyman services.
I wouldn't much worry about roving gangs from the cities even if they are the worst of the worst. They may know their city streets inside and out but they wont know shit about the back 40, even worse when the sun goes down. By time they ravage the cities everyone else would know about it and every farmer and country boy would not think twice about shooting anyone who got close to their property. It's not like they would have unlimited houses to hide behind like they do in the cities. They would have too cross huge open areas making themselves easy targets. Watching their criminal buddies drop one by one will take the wind out of their sails. Well prepared groups will have defensive posts in the trees with radios and rifles. They would be seen arriving and never know where the shots came from. Their idea of camo would still be Nikes, bling, and hoodies. Even more fun when the weather goes south. Most of us can deer hunt in sub zero temps, they'd stay snuggled up with their dime bags and Fortys in some living room.

Sure. And there will be no combat vets from the inner city who join these gangs. Or vets from middle class areas that take up with them for their own survival. And we can guarantee they’re dumb, and they don’t know jack, they won’t have overwhelming numbers, they won’t be especially well fed from all the raping and pillaging, and they always shoot their Glocks sideways.

 

[FrankenCub]

Sure. And there will be no combat vets from the inner city who join these gangs. Or vets from middle class areas that take up with them for their own survival. And we can guarantee they’re dumb, and they don’t know jack, they won’t have overwhelming numbers, they won’t be especially well fed from all the raping and pillaging, and they always shoot their Glocks sideways.

You don't give our vets any credit at all. I know my fair share of vets and they certainly aren't willing to associate themselves with that part of society. They are extremely supportive of small town farmers and Militia groups, many that I know are also part of Militia groups. I haven't met or known a vet who doesn't have decent morals. Some may be a bit damaged inside, but their core values still remain.

 

[C3D]

You don't give our vets any credit at all. I know my fair share of vets and they certainly aren't willing to associate themselves with that part of society. They are extremely supportive of small town farmers and Militia groups, many that I know are also part of Militia groups. I haven't met or known a vet who doesn't have decent morals. Some may be a bit damaged inside, but their core values still remain.

Please don’t misconstrue my comments to say “vets are bad”. The overwhelming number are our finest and most patriotic citizens. But there is a population of them that is large enough so that statistically you may get a very small number of bad apples who organize a large amount of trouble. Especially in a world where they can’t eat otherwise.

 

[FrankenCub]

Please don’t misconstrue my comments to say “vets are bad”. The overwhelming number are our finest and most patriotic citizens. But there is a population of them that is large enough so that statistically you may get a very small number of bad apples who organize a large amount of trouble. Especially in a world where they can’t eat otherwise.

I didn't take it that way It's just my experience that the numbers that would "ride" with societies finest piece of shit groups is very small. In our Militia group, many of they guys are combat vets, as is in most of the Militia groups.These groups are pretty wide spread, especially in the past 10 years or so. Probably thanks to NObama lol. Math usually points to the obvious that if even a group of scumbags recruited some off kilter vets, they will be vastly outnumbered. How long are the off kilter vets going to have to train the scumbags? No way in hell long enough to accomplish anything substantial.
I guess if I'm proven wrong, which I don't think I would be, it wouldn't matter

 

[Marine Cpl]

In this SHTF scenario, there would be no gas. If there was gas, there wouldn't be a SHTF scenario. So they'll be on foot and moving slow.

Roving gangs have to sleep at night. They wouldn't make it past a few towns that border the city they come from. Once word gets out about what they did to the 2 or 3 towns outside the city, the others would be prepared further away from the city.

It's a big operation to feed a large mob or Army. A few combat vets in that mob aren't going to make a difference and smack discipline into the mob.

They'll be an unorganized bunch that will eventually reach a town that has their shit together.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And also, the mob would compete with themselves for resources. They'll kill each other off if the group gets too big due to greed.

 

[99cummins]

Here's a little ........
#30 Diesel fuel. Same as heating oil, off road diesel, and kerosene. The differences are what's taxed and what isn't. This is noted by the red dye in no or partial taxed fuel oils. Kero has a lot of detergents in it to make it burn clean and keep it from gelling in the cold climates.
Diesel engines will also run on trans fluid and motor oil. Not to mention natural oils.

Disclaimer. Do your own research before feeding yours.

Older (generally pre 2007) diesels yes. Any newer diesels with all the emissions garbage not so much. Unless it’s been deleted. Although in the short term a newer diesel may run for a while on alternative fuels before there is a problem. Some sensor/computer problem may shut them down.

 

[FrankenCub]

Older (generally pre 2007) diesels yes. Any newer diesels with all the emissions garbage not so much. Unless it’s been deleted. Although in the short term a newer diesel may run for a while on alternative fuels before there is a problem. Some sensor/computer problem may shut them down.

Likewise, the newer diesel fuel isn't good for the older engines even though the oil companies state it's safe for all. Many guys are seeing decreased injector pump life running the new ultra low sulfur shit. I try to alternate regular diesel and bio diesel between fillups so I'm getting better injector pump lubrication. In the winter I don't use the bio as it tends to jell faster, I do make sure to add supplements though.
Any SHTF scenario, I'll be punching holes in oil pans and tranny pans in stranded vehicles. I'll be able to keep moving no problems. Tranny fluid is great. I have 55g barrels that I save used fluids to filter and mix with diesel.