The nevermind. Just delete it mods.

[meketrefe]

Penal Law 265 disagrees with you as well because they also define what a weapon is in the charges of criminal possession of a weapon is in the 4th degree, on school grounds, ect.

It always states that a weapon in those cases are shotguns, rifles, pistols, knives, ect.

So this isn't a Safe related thing. It is a Penal Law related thing. If it is a weapon that has been made to fire from the shoulder, it is a rifle.

And since it is a rifle and it is also defined to have certain banned features, it is an AW by their definitions.

Forget about schools.

But you mean they have more than one definition of what a NY legal pistol conversion and potential AW is?

Also what about a compliant AR pistol with a long buffer tube? You are not supposed to touch the buffer with your shoulder or is
it ok to touch it because it was not built to be fired from the shoulder although naturally it is a lot easier to shoot from the shoulder?
Same thing can happen with other pistols even w/o a stock. Anything that has an elongated action can be as eaqualy effective
as a stock?
So who determines what is a stock or not on a pistol or not and how to use it?
Not BS SAFE that is for sure.

But also is this a grip? yes no why?
your thoughts.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The buffer tube has no revelance to this discussion since a buffer tube is not a stock same as an arm brace is not a stock. It still maintains the pistol a pistol.

You are all over the place so I will give up. I don't know what you mean by schools and I never said anything about pistol conversion definitions. What I did say is Penal Law 265 says that if you add a stock to a weapon it becomes a rifle.

Federal and state definitions say contrary to what you say about making a rifle.

You are playing with the word "make" when in all reality anyone who cuts a barrel makes an SBR. Anyone who adds a stock to a pistol makes a rifle.

I will leave it at that.

That grip also has no revelance to this discussion. But to humor you I'll answer the question. No. It is not a pistol grip. A strap is a strap.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And why do you keep referring to the safe act?

You cannot get charged via the Safe Act. The Safe Act was changes to Penal Law 265.

 

[meketrefe]

And why do you keep referring to the safe act?

You cannot get charged via the Safe Act. The Safe Act was changes to Penal Law 265.

Regarding ATF one can do that as soon as the pistol is legally owned. So I said school to leave 265 out because we are not
going there. We don't need to get in there.
The whole discussion is regarding the safe act and weather it should be classified as an assault weapon or not.
The upper conversion as per ATF is ok. The pistol as per ATF and SAFE is too. the both put together do not need to be
registered with SAFE. They don't say you cannot re-register them neither. but they are already registered as a pistol.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Forget it Meke. You still do not get the point. A rifle is good to go too until you add another upper on to it with a short barrel and make it an SBR. Both are legal to possess separately until you add them together. You keep ignoring that.

In reverse, what do you think would happen if you have an AR rifle and add a legal to have pistol upper on it and remove the stock? Would it still be a rifle? I don't think so.

This is no different.

It's all good. Do as you like contrary to what the laws say.

And for your information, the Safe Act was a revision to Penal Law 265 so Penal Law 265 is very revelant to this conversation especially when it states the definition of a rifle.

 

[meketrefe]

That grip also has no relevance to this discussion. But to humor you I'll answer the question. No. It is not a pistol grip. A strap is a strap.

LEts get a time out but I think it is related to the conversation because
who decides what is a grip and not a grip in the context of a firearm?
I agree a strap is a strap. In your original post a magazine is a magazine only that when you put
it inside the remaining magazine well it works as a grip.

Is a 3 inches flashlight screwed or epoxied to the action a grip? What about a good peg?

Where is the grip definition in SAFE?

Or lets take a time out if you want.

 

[Marine Cpl]

LEts get a time out but I think it is related to the conversation because
who decides what is a grip and not a grip in the context of a firearm?
I agree a strap is a strap. In your original post a magazine is a magazine only that when you put
it inside the remaining magazine it works as a grip.

Is a 3 inches flashlight screwed or epoxied to the action a grip? What about a good peg?

Where is the grip definition in SAFE?

Or lets take a time out if you want.

When did I say a magazine is a grip? Never. Why do you keep harping on that?

 

[Marine Cpl]

It's no bother. I'm on a train going home now from work.

Answer this. What do you think would happen if you have an AR rifle and add a legal to have pistol upper on it and remove the stock? Would it still be a rifle?

 

[meketrefe]

Forget it Meke. You still do not get the point. A rifle is good to go too until you add another upper on to it with a short barrel and make it an SBR. Both are legal to possess separately until you add them together. You keep ignoring that.

In reverse, what do you think would happen if you have an AR rifle and add a legal to have pistol upper on it and remove the stock? Would it still be a rifle? I don't think so.

This is no different.

It's all good. Do as you like contrary to what the laws say.

And for your information, the Safe Act was a revision to Penal Law 265 so Penal Law 265 is very revelant to this conversation especially when it states the definition of a rifle.

No I am not ignoring that. I know what a pistol is. I know the registered pistol with a legally adquired upper with a 16" barrel is ok to put together. No prolblems there.

What I know the firearm is already registered. Safe doesn't say anything about pistol to rifle conversions being subject to the so call AW classification.
They do not explain what a grip is.
They do not explain what a magazine is.
They do not explain so many other things.
There are some random examples in the website but not explanation of the extend and limitations of those terms with clear definitions.

 

[meketrefe]

When did I say a magazine is a grip? Never. Why do you keep harping on that?

no no no. I said that refering to the original picuture of the glock lower with the cut magazien well.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No I am not ignoring that. I know what a pistol is. I know the registered pistol with a legally adquired upper with a 16" barrel is ok to put together. No prolblems there.

What I know the firearm is already registered. Safe doesn't say anything about pistol to rifle conversions being subject to the so call AW classification.
They do not explain what a grip is.
They do not explain what a magazine is.
They do not explain so many other things.
There are some random examples in the website but not explanation of the extend and limitations of those terms with clear definitions.

They don't need to say it. If it becomes a rifle, it has to be a legal one.

And why are you harping on grips, magazines, ect?

 

[meketrefe]

It's no bother. I'm on a train going home now from work.

Answer this. What do you think would happen if you have an AR rifle and add a legal to have pistol upper on it and remove the stock? Would it still be a rifle?

It's no bother. I'm on a train going home now from work.

Answer this. What do you think would happen if you have an AR rifle and add a legal to have pistol upper on it and remove the stock? Would it still be a rifle?

As per ATF you have a pistol if it is leagally registered.
As per NY you have to see if they will register that but will only be if the magazine is fixed because it is outside the grip.
Once is registered is ok. Then you can use it. In this case is clearly excluded from the AW scrutiny.

 

[meketrefe]

They don't need to say it. If it becomes a rifle, it has to be a legal one.

And why are you harping on grips, magazines, ect?

Isn't the grip and ny BS SAFE compliance what got this started?

Lets take a break. My brain hurts. lol

 

[Marine Cpl]

no no no. I said that refering to the original picuture of the glock lower with the cut magazien well.

Meke. The disconnect is still there. I don't understand where you are going with this.

The first picture showed a Glock with no grip whatsoever. Fact.

If you take that Glock with no grip and add a 16 inch barrel and a stock to it, it becomes a rifle with no grip. Fact.

What is the problem. You now have a rifle with no grip that has no features.

 

[Marine Cpl]

As per ATF you have a pistol if it is leagally registered.
As per NY you have to see if they will register that but will only be if the magazine is fixed because it is outside the grip.
Once is registered is ok. Then you can use it. In this case is clearly excluded from the AW scrutiny.

Incorrect. You cannot turn a rifle into a pistol under no circumstances.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Meke. You have to familiarize yourself with these laws.

 

[meketrefe]

Incorrect. You cannot turn a rifle into a pistol under no circumstances.

I think if teh lower is registered as a pistol lower you can right?

 

[meketrefe]

Meke. You have to familiarize yourself with these laws.

I am ...perhaps too much ...past point of insanity.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I think if teh lower is registered as a pistol lower you can right?

Correct. The ATF ruled that a pistol can become a rifle and back to a pistol again but a rifle cannot become a pistol under no circumstances. It'll become an SBR as stupid as that sounds.

 

[meketrefe]

Perhaps this is part of my confusion:
AR lower can be registered but inherently is not SAFE compliant because the magazine is out of the grip.
Glock lower can be registered carried and shot as is (given all other conditions) and then upper can be added.
Now the AR needs to take a pistol upper needs to have fixed magazine at this point all other features do not matter and it is SAFE compliant.
As a rifle will have to go through a different process for the lower if you want to keep the detachable magazine otherwise also fixed.
That is where I see the glock doesn't need any modification to be compliant with the ATF. And in terms of SAFE is already registered.
I think a detachable magazine definition is very important in these cases. We are not just talking about AR cassette type.
Anyway lets take a break. Time out. or a "muzzle break" like in the safe act. That is another one for the records.

 

[Marine Cpl]

One last thing. You keep harping on the Glock is already registered. That means nothing.

If the configuration is changed, it could become an illegal AW pistol by adding a threaded barrel regardless if it's registered. That's fact.

If that same Glock's configuration is changed to a rifle with a stock and 16 inch barrel, it is no longer a pistol regardless if it's registered as such. It becomes a rifle just the same as it became an AW by adding a 4.5 inch threaded pistol barrel.

I can have a registered AW AR Rifle by their standards in NY and once I change it into a pistol by putting a short barrel on it and removing the stock and putting a Sig Brace on it, I'm in violation by both the ATF for making an SBR as by NY by having an illegal pistol not on my permit.