Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
I stole this from a Facebook page:
Thomas Matthew Coffin Sr This is going to get ugly. LEO and civilian lives are going to be lost as these laws start being implemented. It failed in Virginia. I wrote this about our Virginia bill but it applies closely to the others states bills and laws.
So many things wrong with it that many don't understand. Its not just guns, its giving the police the ability to circumvent your rights to enter your home and take your property.
First thing's first: Due process is NOT due process if it occurs AFTER the fact. Both the House and Senate bills at the GA do exactly this. This is the order in which this works.
1. Anyone can walk in off the street, and swear a complaint before a Commonwealth's Attorney or Magistrate.
2. The CA or Magistrate then plays errand boy, and takes it to the judge, INSULATING THE ACCUSER from going before a judge, or swearing any form of oath. Even the most bold-faced lie can only be charged with a misdemeanor!
3. You are not, I repeat, N-O-T, informed of ANY of this. Your first notification is when the cops show up, I pray not at 5 in the morning, as in Ann Arundel, Md. That incident ended in an execution. The alleged "due process" does not occur until two or three weeks LATER!
4. To retrieve your property, or restore your good name, you DO have to go before a judge, swear an oath, and if you so much as lie to the judge about where you car is parked, you are on the hook for perjury, A CLASS 5 FELONY. Your accuser is NOT required to attend. Again, insulated from perjury charges.
The FOURTH AMENDMENT contains two protections: from SEARCH AND SEIZURE and warrants without PROBABLE CAUSE. The word of some yahoo wandering in off the street is N-O-T probable cause. If the probable cause is illegitimate, so is the seizure.
The FIFTH AMENDMENT contains five protections. The two violated here are DUE PROCESS, and possibly JUST COMPENSATION. As I said, due process is NOT due process if it comes after the fact. Additionally, the bill requires ONLY that guns be returned (maybe, eventually). NOWHERE do the bills say that they must be returned IN THE CONDITION RECEIVED! In fact, law enforcement is specifically shielded from any liability, criminal OR CIVIL, for damage or theft in their custody. You could surrender a collection of fully functional firearms, and receive damaged guns or piles of useless parts in return. You will have NO recourse, hence the potential violation of just compensation.
The SIXTH AMENDMENT contains six protections, ALL OF WHICH are trampled. PUBLIC TRIAL is replaced by a kangaroo court. The IMPARTIAL JURY is supplanted with a single judge. You are not even informed that there IS an accusation, much less are you INFORMED OF THE NATURE AND CAUSE, allowed to CONFRONT YOUR ACCUSER, bring WITNESSES ON YOUR BEHALF, or even have ASSISTANCE OF COUNSEL. These last three only come your way two or three weeks after the fact. Too little, TOO LATE!
Now, set all of that aside for a minute. Let's boil this down to the core. If someone is SO dangerous that we have to invade his/her home and seize his/her property, AND, they are SO dangerous that we must trample all of our most sacred legal protections to do it, WHY IS THIS INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS PERSON LEFT ON THE STREET, UNDER THEIR OWN RECOGNIZANCE? Wouldn't a temporary detention order be a better idea? Under a TDO, a dangerous person would get supervised, evaluated, and treated, and Virginia already HAS a TDO process in place!
I hope that this clearly highlights the problems involving red flag orders.
Thomas Matthew Coffin Sr This is going to get ugly. LEO and civilian lives are going to be lost as these laws start being implemented. It failed in Virginia. I wrote this about our Virginia bill but it applies closely to the others states bills and laws.
So many things wrong with it that many don't understand. Its not just guns, its giving the police the ability to circumvent your rights to enter your home and take your property.
First thing's first: Due process is NOT due process if it occurs AFTER the fact. Both the House and Senate bills at the GA do exactly this. This is the order in which this works.
1. Anyone can walk in off the street, and swear a complaint before a Commonwealth's Attorney or Magistrate.
2. The CA or Magistrate then plays errand boy, and takes it to the judge, INSULATING THE ACCUSER from going before a judge, or swearing any form of oath. Even the most bold-faced lie can only be charged with a misdemeanor!
3. You are not, I repeat, N-O-T, informed of ANY of this. Your first notification is when the cops show up, I pray not at 5 in the morning, as in Ann Arundel, Md. That incident ended in an execution. The alleged "due process" does not occur until two or three weeks LATER!
4. To retrieve your property, or restore your good name, you DO have to go before a judge, swear an oath, and if you so much as lie to the judge about where you car is parked, you are on the hook for perjury, A CLASS 5 FELONY. Your accuser is NOT required to attend. Again, insulated from perjury charges.
The FOURTH AMENDMENT contains two protections: from SEARCH AND SEIZURE and warrants without PROBABLE CAUSE. The word of some yahoo wandering in off the street is N-O-T probable cause. If the probable cause is illegitimate, so is the seizure.
The FIFTH AMENDMENT contains five protections. The two violated here are DUE PROCESS, and possibly JUST COMPENSATION. As I said, due process is NOT due process if it comes after the fact. Additionally, the bill requires ONLY that guns be returned (maybe, eventually). NOWHERE do the bills say that they must be returned IN THE CONDITION RECEIVED! In fact, law enforcement is specifically shielded from any liability, criminal OR CIVIL, for damage or theft in their custody. You could surrender a collection of fully functional firearms, and receive damaged guns or piles of useless parts in return. You will have NO recourse, hence the potential violation of just compensation.
The SIXTH AMENDMENT contains six protections, ALL OF WHICH are trampled. PUBLIC TRIAL is replaced by a kangaroo court. The IMPARTIAL JURY is supplanted with a single judge. You are not even informed that there IS an accusation, much less are you INFORMED OF THE NATURE AND CAUSE, allowed to CONFRONT YOUR ACCUSER, bring WITNESSES ON YOUR BEHALF, or even have ASSISTANCE OF COUNSEL. These last three only come your way two or three weeks after the fact. Too little, TOO LATE!
Now, set all of that aside for a minute. Let's boil this down to the core. If someone is SO dangerous that we have to invade his/her home and seize his/her property, AND, they are SO dangerous that we must trample all of our most sacred legal protections to do it, WHY IS THIS INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS PERSON LEFT ON THE STREET, UNDER THEIR OWN RECOGNIZANCE? Wouldn't a temporary detention order be a better idea? Under a TDO, a dangerous person would get supervised, evaluated, and treated, and Virginia already HAS a TDO process in place!
I hope that this clearly highlights the problems involving red flag orders.
Last edited:
